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lewdogg21
02-26-2011, 7:03 AM
Hi Guys,
So I'm really educated on AR's (I built a featureless build to utilize existing legal hi-caps) but I was laying in bed last night thinking about the red-headed step child in the back of the safe aka my Chinese Norinco SKS (purchased pre-ban).

What are the legalities since these do not have pistol grips? Do the same featureless rules of an AR apply? (fixed stock, not less than 16" barrel, gun can't be shorter than 30", no flash surpressor, etc.)

Can I legally use pre-ban hi-cap mags with it?

ih8ca
02-26-2011, 7:10 AM
SKS with deatachable mags are ilegal in CA.

lewdogg21
02-26-2011, 7:12 AM
^^^That was what I had heard years ago but was wondering if it was FUD.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 7:31 AM
12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
1)...
2)...
`
`
`
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.

bohoki
02-26-2011, 9:28 AM
years ago a magazine explained how to comply with 922 and have an sks with detachable via replacing the standard stock with a montecarlo or thumbhole type grinding off the bayonet lugs then it would be in "importable condition"

but califirnias overly broad "sks with detachable magazine" prevents that

what other specific assault weapon firearm is listed without a brand name

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 9:36 AM
years ago a magazine explained how to comply with 922 and have an sks with detachable via replacing the standard stock with a montecarlo or thumbhole type grinding off the bayonet lugs then it would be in "importable condition"

but califirnias overly broad "sks with detachable magazine" prevents that

what other specific assault weapon firearm is listed without a brand name


read the actual CCR (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf)

note the CCR says "Norinco SKS w/detachable magazine" while the PC only says SKS....

pyro3k2
02-26-2011, 9:38 AM
is it a true SKS or is it a Yugo 59/66? For the sake of argument one could say that if it's a yugo and doesn't have "SKS" stamped anywhere on the rifle then you would not trigger the AW since it's an "OLL" sks pattern rifle. If we can do it with AR's and AK's whats different than any other firearm?

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 9:40 AM
is it a true SKS or is it a Yugo 59/66? For the sake of argument one could say that if it's a yugo and doesn't have "SKS" stamped anywhere on the rifle then you would not trigger the AW since it's an "OLL" sks pattern rifle. If we can do it with AR's and AK's whats different than any other firearm?


Yugo 59/66 isnt a SKS, just like my Stag-15 isnt a AR15.

configure as much as your lawyer says you can....

read the Law (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php) and the CCR (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf).

Lostsheep
02-26-2011, 9:52 AM
Yugo 59/66 isnt a SKS, just like my Stag-15 isnt a AR15.

configure as much as your lawyer says you can....

read the Law (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php) and the CCR (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf).


While I believe you are correct, has anyone actually tested this? Would the CGF defend one of us if we had to put it to the test? I would love to do so but I can't afford to be the test case.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 10:13 AM
While I believe you are correct, has anyone actually tested this? Would the CGF defend one of us if we had to put it to the test? I would love to do so but I can't afford to be the test case.

I think they already have. Ask in the 2nd/legal forum.

CALI-gula
02-26-2011, 10:28 AM
is it a true SKS or is it a Yugo 59/66? For the sake of argument one could say that if it's a yugo and doesn't have "SKS" stamped anywhere on the rifle then you would not trigger the AW since it's an "OLL" sks pattern rifle. If we can do it with AR's and AK's whats different than any other firearm?

This has been discussed many times before on Calguns; I think the general consensus agrees, but taking that first daring step mass-scale gives people the jitters. Someone has to go first (which I beleive someone has) and it has to be commonly accepted, posted here, and reposted as OK, just like it was with OLLs and OLRs back in 2005. As common as OLL/OLR rifles are now, I remember the double-speak, acronym-only references, secret-location sales, and general "can we do this" mentality paired with lots and lots of "maybe" doubt.

Now look; Turners and Big 5, two of the most reluctant at that time, carrying AK rifles as regular stock on a daily basis.

With ARs, AKs, HKs, UZIs, FNs, Robinson XCRs, and everything else in OLL/OLR format now I don't think converting Yugos and other SKS-influenced rifles (not indicating SKS on the receiver) is a priority for most of those people that WOULD be apt to do it; they are too busy trying to finish off their AK and AR builds while saving up for a SCAR or Vector MP5 .

Who wants to volunteer? I only have one SKS, and it's a really nice early Chinese "Sino-Soviet" version - one of the best I've seen and I would not want to convert it anyway.

.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 10:43 AM
This has been discussed many times before on Calguns; I think the general consensus agrees, but taking that first daring step mass-scale gives people the jitters. Someone has to go first (which I believe someone has) and it has to be commonly accepted, posted here, and reposted as OK, just like it was with OLLs and OLRs back in 2005. As common as OLL/OLR rifles are now, I remember the double-speak, acronym-only references, secret-location sales, and general "can we do this" mentality paired with lots and lots of "maybe" doubt.

Now look; Turners and Big 5, too of the most reluctant at that time, carrying AK rifles as regular stock on a daily basis.

With ARs, AKs, HKs, UZIs, FNs, Robinson XCRs, and everything else in OLL/OLR format now I don't think converting Yugos and other SKS-influenced rifles (not indicating SKS on the receiver) is a priority for most of those people that WOULD be apt to do it; they are too busy trying to finish off their AK and AR builds while saving up for a SCAR or Vector MP5 .

Who wants to volunteer? I only have one SKS, and it's a really nice early Chinese "Sino-Soviet" version - one of the best I've seen and I would not want to convert it anyway.

.

and another thing to REALLY REALLY think about....

nothing is set in law UNTIL someone is found GUILTY and that guilty verdict is overturned with accompanying rulings.

so you sit in jail a few years while your appeal goes through, then you get the verdict over turned, then we all benefit from your "test case".

The only reason we have OLLs now is because a lawyer challenged a CLEO, on what is an AW... the lawyer wasn't going to jail if he lost, he just wasn't (didn't) get his rifles from the CLEO. then it went up the chain and we got the end ruling we all now use to make CA-compliant rifles.

SJgunguy24
02-26-2011, 10:54 AM
SKS with deatachable mags are ilegal in CA.

is it a true SKS or is it a Yugo 59/66? For the sake of argument one could say that if it's a yugo and doesn't have "SKS" stamped anywhere on the rifle then you would not trigger the AW since it's an "OLL" sks pattern rifle. If we can do it with AR's and AK's whats different than any other firearm?

For the OP, your Norinco would be an AW with a detachable mag. The Yugo 59 and 59/66 would be 100% legal with hi cap detachable mags.
This just may get done sometime in the near future, need to make a couple calls first.

xbimmers
02-26-2011, 10:56 AM
I accidentally added my Norinco SKS to my assault weapons application when I did my Colt Sporter. I called and reviewed it with them. They said yes it is on the application and to just go ahead and leave it there. It was then included in the registration and I have it listed on my assault rifle letter confirmation.

Does this mean that I can treat it like an assault rifle and remove the detachable magazine and install a pre ban detachable banana magazine?

Not that I would go to all that effort for a rifle I don't shoot. But it would be interesting to know.

CALI-gula
02-26-2011, 10:59 AM
and another thing to REALLY REALLY think about....

nothing is set in law UNTIL someone is found GUILTY and that guilty verdict is overturned with accompanying rulings.

so you sit in jail a few years while your appeal goes through, then you get the verdict over turned, then we all benefit from your "test case".

The only reason we have OLLs now is because a lawyer challenged a CLEO, on what is an AW... the lawyer wasn't going to jail if he lost, he just wasn't (didn't) get his rifles from the CLEO. then it went up the chain and we got the end ruling we all now use to make CA-compliant rifles.

Ask BlackwaterOPS or search Calguns for his story - I am sure he is quite familiar with your "test case" reference.

.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 11:06 AM
I accidentally added my Norinco SKS to my assault weapons application when I did my Colt Sporter. I called and reviewed it with them. They said yes it is on the application and to just go ahead and leave it there. It was then included in the registration and I have it listed on my assault rifle letter confirmation.

Does this mean that I can treat it like an assault rifle and remove the detachable magazine and install a pre ban detachable banana magazine?

Not that I would go to all that effort for a rifle I don't shoot. But it would be interesting to know.

Yes, your SKS is a RAW, you can have all the features, even detachable magazines. If you owned high capacity magazines before 2000, you can use them too.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 11:10 AM
Ask BlackwaterOPS or search Calguns for his story - I am sure he is quite familiar with your "test case" reference.

.

give us the skinny of it. I am coming up empty. was he the guy nailed for being within 1000ft of a school without knowing it and still got convicted due to the Judge not allowing the "knowingly" as evidence...even though the law states "knowingly" as a requirement of conviction.

SJgunguy24
02-26-2011, 11:45 AM
give us the skinny of it. I am coming up empty. was he the guy nailed for being within 1000ft of a school without knowing it and still got convicted due to the Judge not allowing the "knowingly" as evidence...even though the law states "knowingly" as a requirement of conviction.

Short story, pics posted online, somebody thought his guns looked bad/mean/evil/illegal and authorities were called.

CALI-gula
02-26-2011, 11:52 AM
give us the skinny of it. I am coming up empty. was he the guy nailed for being within 1000ft of a school without knowing it and still got convicted due to the Judge not allowing the "knowingly" as evidence...even though the law states "knowingly" as a requirement of conviction.

If you Advance search "Blackwater Ops" or "Corwin" in quotes in the word search function, then select "2nd Amendment Forum" and look back to a whole span from early to late 2007 for threads, you should find some a gob of info and the story.

However, I did a quick search for you and the links below will set you in the right direction; it was a saga, an epic, one of major sacrifice and win, and the story of a regular guy that was on the shat-end of the stick all for sticking up for his rights - his AND ours - and for now, so many members who are now on this board, and especially NEW to this board in the last 3 years, have no clue as to the history and benefit they enjoy due to the kind of crap that Matt Corwin went through. I don't even know him, met him once at a Calguns function, but I admire his resolve with GREAT respect. Sitting in jail for something you know is right, for any length of time, even one night, is not fun and can humble a person into accepting something that isn't true, just to get free.

This starts with the end first; so you get the advantage of the "spoiler" up front.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=79017&highlight=Blackwater+Ops

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=57623&highlight=Blackwater+Ops

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=58110&highlight=Blackwater+Ops

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=57003&highlight=Blackwater+Ops

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56684&highlight=Blackwater+Ops

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=81739&highlight=Blackwater+Ops

Enjoy the read. It's captivating.

.

zhyla
02-26-2011, 1:30 PM
For the OP, your Norinco would be an AW with a detachable mag. The Yugo 59 and 59/66 would be 100% legal with hi cap detachable mags.

Well now hang on there, what exactly does he have? Norinco made a ton of SKS variants and I'm actually not sure any of them have "SKS" as the model name. There are several SKS-xxx variants. Who knows their chicom SKS's around here?