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View Full Version : What do you need to buy OLL.


NapaPlinker
02-25-2011, 5:16 PM
IS it the same as buying a pistol, or rifle. Do you need current address on id?

high_revs
02-25-2011, 5:22 PM
driver's license?
that's all i need when i picked up my lowers from my ffl. no hsc required. should be same as rifle.

NapaPlinker
02-25-2011, 5:23 PM
I realize the HSC part. But my father doesnt have current address and we want to build an AR15 together

rromeo
02-25-2011, 5:37 PM
If you don't have current address on ID, you must bring a proof of residence.

dieselpower
02-25-2011, 5:41 PM
ASK THE FFL!!!!!!

The rules vary from FFL to FFL.

Car registration, DL, Passport. GO ASK.

Question 18 comes up sometimes too for OLLs... I am hearing some FFLs dont comply with Q18 instructions.

Archie B.
02-25-2011, 8:33 PM
Money...:D

Fjold
02-25-2011, 9:35 PM
I realize the HSC part. But my father doesnt have current address and we want to build an AR15 together

You buy both of them and give your Dad. For a non handgun interfamilial transfer there's no paperwork required.

SarahKC1987
02-26-2011, 1:22 AM
ON the day I bought my lower.... I had an expired drivers license.... I went to DMV and found out I had unpaid tickets and they had a hold on my license. SO I opted to get a CA ID. Well guess what? Apparently since 9/11 they dont issue temp ID's anymore. So the gun store couldnt take my ID. BUT... the resolve was... to go back to DMV and get a printout which shoes the newly issue'd ID's expiration date & thats all that was needed.... badddda bing badda bang.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 8:43 AM
ON the day I bought my lower.... I had an expired drivers license.... I went to DMV and found out I had unpaid tickets and they had a hold on my license. SO I opted to get a CA ID. Well guess what? Apparently since 9/11 they dont issue temp ID's anymore. So the gun store couldnt take my ID. BUT... the resolve was... to go back to DMV and get a printout which shoes the newly issue'd ID's expiration date & thats all that was needed.... badddda bing badda bang.

you got lucky on two counts....freaking BIG TIME LUCKY

1) The FFL was willing to do that. Many FFLs will not.
2) The DMV can tell DoJ about your unpaid tickets and expired DL causing you to FAIL the background check.

you should have bought a lottery ticket that day...

xxINKxx
02-26-2011, 8:51 AM
ID, A right thumb, money..

That's all I've ever been asked when buying a long gun/OLL.

For those saying car registration, that's just another form of ID you can use when buying a handgun. There's no law saying you have to own a car or have drivers license to buy a gun. You just need official form of I'd

NapaPlinker
02-26-2011, 9:27 AM
You buy both of them and give your Dad. For a non handgun interfamilial transfer there's no paperwork required.

Im not 21 yet... :(

SarahKC1987
02-26-2011, 10:50 AM
you got lucky on two counts....freaking BIG TIME LUCKY

1) The FFL was willing to do that. Many FFLs will not.
2) The DMV can tell DoJ about your unpaid tickets and expired DL causing you to FAIL the background check.

you should have bought a lottery ticket that day...

1- I guess im lucky in this instance in a girl, and have been shopping there since I was 18.
2-I dont understand why an infraction ticket that I had gone to court for and had trouble paying my fines with and got behind causing a hold to be placed on my license would affect my DOJ backround check. It was referred to a private collections agency, so are you serious or do you have no idea what your talking about? The FFL DID say I would hear from them if there was any problem during the 10 day wait but I haven't heard from him and we're like 5 or 6 days in....





ID, A right thumb, money..

That's all I've ever been asked when buying a long gun/OLL.

For those saying car registration, that's just another form of ID you can use when buying a handgun. There's no law saying you have to own a car or have drivers license to buy a gun. You just need official form of I'd

So whats the guy above talking about? Because I had an official form of ID just not a DL. Just cuz I have a hold on my license?

CALI-gula
02-26-2011, 10:58 AM
Money...:D

And when you run out of that... credit cards, 2nd Mortgage, Loan Shark, lots of blood and plasma you can sell, a wife that is not adverse to prostitution, multiple children you can sell into slavery, etc.

It's a disease; just beware, I say, beware...


.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 11:03 AM
Im not 21 yet... :(
then your Dad is the only way to get a lower. The FFL can't (shouldnt) sell one to you.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 11:06 AM
1- I guess im lucky in this instance in a girl, and have been shopping there since I was 18.
2-I dont understand why an infraction ticket that I had gone to court for and had trouble paying my fines with and got behind causing a hold to be placed on my license would affect my DOJ backround check. It was referred to a private collections agency, so are you serious or do you have no idea what your talking about? The FFL DID say I would hear from them if there was any problem during the 10 day wait but I haven't heard from him and we're like 5 or 6 days in....

So whats the guy above talking about? Because I had an official form of ID just not a DL. Just cuz I have a hold on my license?


Search the 2nd / legal forums...The DMV can and has killed a background check on people.

SarahKC1987
02-26-2011, 11:31 AM
And whats their process? They wait until the end of the 10 days to tell you?

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 11:36 AM
And whats their process? They wait until the end of the 10 days to tell you?

yup. then you call the DoJ, they tell you DMV flagged you for unpaid tickets. You go clear that up, pay the DROS again and wait another 10 days.

Its been in the forums several times under various threads.

Archie B.
02-26-2011, 7:07 PM
And when you run out of that... credit cards, 2nd Mortgage, Loan Shark, lots of blood and plasma you can sell, a wife that is not adverse to prostitution, multiple children you can sell into slavery, etc.

It's a disease; just beware, I say, beware...


.

LOL! I know, it`s a disease...

SarahKC1987
02-26-2011, 8:20 PM
That seems pretty stupid to flag someone for traffic offenses.... Do they take the totality of the circumstance into consideration? 1 traffic offesnse VS 23 years of never even having contact with a Police Officer?

If they flag me im contacting an attorney. As someone has stated you only have to have an ID to get a gun, I had an acceptable ID. If they flag me for a traffic/non criminal offense we're gonna have issue's.

My ****ing ex boyfriend who was convited of felony domestic violence AMONG other things and had his **** reduced to a misdemeanor and it out shooting things he shouldn't be ALL DAY! Im gonna be pissed boy I tell ya....

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 9:18 PM
That seems pretty stupid to flag someone for traffic offenses.... Do they take the totality of the circumstance into consideration? 1 traffic offesnse VS 23 years of never even having contact with a Police Officer?

If they flag me im contacting an attorney. As someone has stated you only have to have an ID to get a gun, I had an acceptable ID. If they flag me for a traffic/non criminal offense we're gonna have issue's.

My ****ing ex boyfriend who was convited of felony domestic violence AMONG other things and had his **** reduced to a misdemeanor and it out shooting things he shouldn't be ALL DAY! Im gonna be pissed boy I tell ya....

DV = no firearms

12021.
(c)(1) Except as provided in subdivision (a) or paragraph (2) of this subdivision, any person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor violation of Section 71, 76, 136.1, 136.5, or 140, subdivision (d) of Section 148, Section 171b, 171c, 171d, 186.28, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244.5, 245, 245.5, 246.3, 247, 273.5, 273.6, 417, 417.6, 422, 626.9, 646.9, 12023 or 12024, subdivision (b) or (d) of Section 12034, Section 12040, subdivision (b) of Section 12072, subdivision (a) of former Section 12100, Section 12220, 12320, or 12590, or Section 8100, 8101, or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, any firearm-related offense pursuant to Sections 871.5 and 1001.5 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, or of the conduct punished in paragraph (3) of subdivision (g) of Section 12072, and who, within 10 years of the conviction, owns, purchases, receives, or has in his or her possession or under his or her custody or control, any firearm is guilty of a public offense, which shall be punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine. The court, on forms prescribed by the Department of Justice, shall notify the department of persons subject to this subdivision. However, the prohibition in this paragraph may be reduced, eliminated, or conditioned as provided in paragraph (2) or (3).

doesnt matter if it got reduced...plead guilty..no more firearms.

talk to a lawyer.

SureShot241
02-26-2011, 9:23 PM
I dont understand why you can but a full AR-15 at 18 but cant buy a lower until 21. Logic wasnt considered when making that rule

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 9:35 PM
I dont understand why you can but a full AR-15 at 18 but cant buy a lower until 21. Logic wasnt considered when making that rule

heres' why.

Under 21 can not buy any firearms that are not longarms without a parents knowledge.

An AR15 lower can be made into a legal pistol, so it must be listed on ATF form 4473 as "other" in block 18. No item listed as "other" can be sold to a person under 21.

Its just like smoking tobacco, drinking booze and hiring a hooker...21 and over only.

SarahKC1987
02-26-2011, 9:37 PM
The DV wasn't against me, it was after we broke up and many many years seperation.

But I do know he had a Felony DV case and got it reduced after probation to a misd and had the misd 1203.4'd. All I know is he works at a gun shop now and has many pictures posted on his fb of his gun collection, and its obviously at his house and his guns due to some engraving and stamping. Now I know he spent a pretty penny on a lawyer and it was about 5 or 8 years ago but. He's able to have guns somehow.

So the point is, if my **** gets kicked back due to a non-criminal traffic offense im going to be beyong PO'd.

SarahKC1987
02-26-2011, 9:38 PM
I dont understand why you can but a full AR-15 at 18 but cant buy a lower until 21. Logic wasnt considered when making that rule

Most likely different laws written at different times. Probably was a time you could do both, but different laws now make it illegal.

dieselpower
02-26-2011, 9:43 PM
Most likely different laws written at different times. Probably was a time you could do both, but different laws now make it illegal.


Yes, 10 years ago you declared what your lower was when you bought it. Longarm, pistol or other. Then you had the options to do what you wanted. That got confusing when a person no longer wanted a pistol and attached a stock on it and a 16" barrel...well since it was listed as a pistol it could be charged as a AOW (other). Then there was the kids who just bought the lower and said it was going to be a rifle, but made a pistol. BATFE just ruled that all receivers are now "other" to stop all the BS.

So now when you buy a lower you can make either without declaring what it is at the time you buy it.

mxadam579
02-27-2011, 12:59 PM
$$$

Cokebottle
02-27-2011, 1:09 PM
But I do know he had a Felony DV case and got it reduced after probation to a misd and had the misd 1203.4'd. All I know is he works at a gun shop now and has many pictures posted on his fb of his gun collection, and its obviously at his house and his guns due to some engraving and stamping. Now I know he spent a pretty penny on a lawyer and it was about 5 or 8 years ago but. He's able to have guns somehow.
A misdemeanor DV conviction is a lifetime prohibition due to Lautenberg.
To work at a gun shop, he needs to have a CaCOE, which means that he passed both CaDOJ and FBI background checks.
I can see the DOJ missing a misdo DV conviction on a DROS check, but them missing it on two or more for the same person would be surprising, and they absolutely aren't going to miss it on the COE background check.

Something is not exactly as you were told. His misdemeanor conviction must not have been for DV. If he spent a lot on his attorney, he may have been able to bargain it down to "disturbing the peace" or some other non-prohibiting misdo.

Cokebottle
02-27-2011, 1:13 PM
Most likely different laws written at different times. Probably was a time you could do both, but different laws now make it illegal.
Yup.

California DROS still only has two options... Handgun or Long gun.
The new 4473 came out in, IIRC, 2008, and added the "other" option.
This eliminated the ability of 18-20 y/o to purchase not only stripped lowers, but also "cruiser" style PG-only shotguns like the Mossberg Persuader.

dieselpower
02-27-2011, 1:59 PM
Yup.

California DROS still only has two options... Handgun or Long gun.
The new 4473 came out in, IIRC, 2008, and added the "other" option.
This eliminated the ability of 18-20 y/o to purchase not only stripped lowers, but also "cruiser" style PG-only shotguns like the Mossberg Persuader.

wow only 3 years ago...seems like a longer.

I stand corrected when I said 10 years.

Cokebottle
02-27-2011, 2:28 PM
wow only 3 years ago...seems like a longer.

I stand corrected when I said 10 years.
Ya, Futurecollector was lamenting being able to buy a stripped lower in 2008 but not today. He was 18 in 2008, is not yet 21, and the FFL that he used in late 2008 still had some of the old "yellow" 4473s left that he used for those under 21.

I guess the BATFE didn't give an effective date for the new form.

So it's both bad and good. In a free state, you can buy a box of lowers and decide later whether to build them out as rifle or pistol. Under the old form, you had to decide at the time of purchase.
With the California DROS, the only thing that "other" did was screw those under 21.

SarahKC1987
02-27-2011, 3:55 PM
A misdemeanor DV conviction is a lifetime prohibition due to Lautenberg.
To work at a gun shop, he needs to have a CaCOE, which means that he passed both CaDOJ and FBI background checks.
I can see the DOJ missing a misdo DV conviction on a DROS check, but them missing it on two or more for the same person would be surprising, and they absolutely aren't going to miss it on the COE background check.

Something is not exactly as you were told. His misdemeanor conviction must not have been for DV. If he spent a lot on his attorney, he may have been able to bargain it down to "disturbing the peace" or some other non-prohibiting misdo.

Ok I did a little research on my end.... And now I have a question someone can answer for me. I don't know why im so concerned but its been on my mind how my ex could do this to a girlfriend of his and still work and own guns. I guess his felony DV got changed to a Misd Battery. My confusion was that even 243pm misd battery has a 10 year gun ban..... Question is....


and I have sort of already answered is.... Do all states honor this ban? I don't think they do & thats how I think he gets around having guns. Does that make sense? Guilty of CA Misd Battery straight 243, move out of CA to a state with less gun laws that don't honor CA's ban and boom he can own and work.

Yes or no?

razorscs
02-27-2011, 4:01 PM
then your Dad is the only way to get a lower. The FFL can't (shouldnt) sell one to you.

Really? I didn't know that... I bought a stripped lower last January from a local gun store before I was 21 and that wasn't even mentioned...

dieselpower
02-27-2011, 4:10 PM
Really? I didn't know that... I bought a stripped lower last January from a local gun store before I was 21 and that wasn't even mentioned...

yes...correct as I also said...many FFLs ignore block 18 instructions.

razorscs
02-27-2011, 4:20 PM
yes...correct as I also said...many FFLs ignore block 18 instructions.

Ahh, I was not aware of what each block number's significance was.

Cokebottle
02-27-2011, 4:40 PM
and I have sort of already answered is.... Do all states honor this ban? I don't think they do & thats how I think he gets around having guns. Does that make sense? Guilty of CA Misd Battery straight 243, move out of CA to a state with less gun laws that don't honor CA's ban and boom he can own and work.
That would be correct. Most free states only recognize federal prohibitions, which includes felonies, and thanks to Lautenberg, misdemeanor DV.

SarahKC1987
02-27-2011, 4:51 PM
Amazing. This is crazyness.... so people who we're once fully commited convicted felons can now own assault rifles and work in gun shops all day...


2005- Convicted of Felony DV, 2009-Felony reduced to misd battery, 2010- Misd battery expunged, 2011- working as a gunsmith or some gun shop supervisor in another state and posing with AR's all day! I guess sometimes the laws we fight to keep, keep bad people in the loop.

Where is a list of these "free" states we keep talking about? I think I want to move there because I watch these shows like Sons of Guns and want all those toys and look at what we can have..... just doesn't make sense.

Is Louisianna a free state?

dieselpower
02-27-2011, 5:11 PM
Amazing. This is crazyness.... so people who we're once fully commited convicted felons can now own assault rifles and work in gun shops all day...


2005- Convicted of Felony DV, 2009-Felony reduced to misd battery, 2010- Misd battery expunged, 2011- working as a gunsmith or some gun shop supervisor in another state and posing with AR's all day! I guess sometimes the laws we fight to keep, keep bad people in the loop.

Where is a list of these "free" states we keep talking about? I think I want to move there because I watch these shows like Sons of Guns and want all those toys and look at what we can have..... just doesn't make sense.

Is Louisianna a free state?

Heres the deal Sarah, let it go girl. He's your past, you have a better future. Louisiana sux...you would like Montana so much more.

Cokebottle
02-27-2011, 5:12 PM
2005- Convicted of Felony DV, 2009-Felony reduced to misd battery, 2010- Misd battery expunged, 2011- working as a gunsmith or some gun shop supervisor in another state and posing with AR's all day! I guess sometimes the laws we fight to keep, keep bad people in the loop.
Yup... he had a good attorney and spent a lot of money to do that.
Where is a list of these "free" states we keep talking about?
Anywhere but California, New York, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, and a couple of other states.

RRichie09
02-27-2011, 5:18 PM
So now when you buy a lower you can make either without declaring what it is at the time you buy it.

That doesn't sound right. So I can buy a stripped lower and make it into a single-shot pistol?

AlliedArmory
02-27-2011, 5:22 PM
You need the same stuff as buying a rifle.

Cokebottle
02-27-2011, 5:22 PM
That doesn't sound right. So I can buy a stripped lower and make it into a single-shot pistol?
Not in California.

The age prohibition is, believe it or not, due to Federal law rather than California law.

California still has only two options... "Long Gun" and "Handgun".
Due to the roster, stripped lowers must be DROS'd as "Long Gun" and can not then be assembled into pistol form.

RRichie09
02-27-2011, 5:28 PM
Not in California.

The age prohibition is, believe it or not, due to Federal law rather than California law.

California still has only two options... "Long Gun" and "Handgun".
Due to the roster, stripped lowers must be DROS'd as "Long Gun" and can not then be assembled into pistol form.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I wonder what Desielpower is talking about.

I am only aware of two ways of getting an AR pistol. Buy a complete ar pistol, build an Ar pistol from 80% lower. Both would obviously have to be single shot pistols due to the "safe" handgun list.

Cokebottle
02-27-2011, 6:00 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought. I wonder what Desielpower is talking about.

I am only aware of two ways of getting an AR pistol. Buy a complete ar pistol, build an Ar pistol from 80% lower. Both would obviously have to be single shot pistols due to the "safe" handgun list.
He is correct per Federal law.

In Arizona, when you buy a stripped lower, it is written up on the 4473 as "other" and it can be built into a pistol or long gun.

dieselpower
02-27-2011, 6:14 PM
and heres the deal with that. the ATF doesn't care what our laws are. the form is for them and must be filled out as per federal law. under federal law you follow block 18 instructions.

I could be wrong, maybe CA FFLs can ignore the forms instructions and use longarm allowing the sale to less then 21 year olds.

not something I want to bring up with ATF since it would open the door to investigating CA FFLs and I am not into screwing my brethren...even if I disagree with what some of them do.