PDA

View Full Version : Sales question


LeatherNuts
02-21-2011, 12:05 AM
No idea if this is the proper place for this, but....

I'm in the military and I understand that in California all guns need to be transfered through an FFL and all the other crap that goes with it, but what happens if I buy a gun in a state that doesn't require such craziness and bring it to this state? Or I buy a gun from someone from we'll say Washington and I'm from Connecticut, but we happen to both be stationed in California?

Have I mentioned I hate this state?

Ed_Hazard
02-21-2011, 12:09 AM
You can do a voluntary reg. with the Ca. DOJ for handguns.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

LeatherNuts
02-21-2011, 12:10 AM
Not to sound like an ***, but what would I gain from that other than paying someone to highjack my gun from me for 10 days?

jtmkinsd
02-21-2011, 12:17 AM
If you are military with permanent orders to a duty station in CA you are a resident of CA. Legally, you may only take possession of a firearm within your state of residence. So, you can buy a firearm anywhere, but it must go through an FFL in your state of residence (CA) before you can take possession of said firearm.

Yes, you mentioned you hate this place...we do too.

Librarian
02-21-2011, 12:28 AM
If one is in the military with PCS orders to CA, one is not compelled to give up one's CT residence nor ID.

So, if on leave or something to CT, a CT resident can follow CT laws.

But you have to follow the laws of the state where you are a resident. If you are in NEITHER CT nor CA then whatever you might want to buy would be an interstate transfer - CA requires those to occur through a CA FFL, can't buy in, say, NV, and take possession there, has to be shipped to CA FFL. I don't know anything at all about CT firearms laws.

The "I am from CT, he is from WA, both of us are in CA (presumably on orders, thus being declared residents of CA) right now" still requires a sale between you two to go through a CA FFL.

The volreg form - which you can safely ignore, as .mil is not required to register anything unless you either separate here or want to hassle with the recently-crippled Military Assault Weapon Permit (MAWP) - would be send in a form and $19 - no 'quarantine'.

llamatrnr
02-21-2011, 12:30 AM
c'mon, the climate?

jtmkinsd
02-21-2011, 12:49 AM
If one is in the military with PCS orders to CA, one is not compelled to give up one's CT residence nor ID.

So, if on leave or something to CT, a CT resident can follow CT laws.


Agreed...to a point :D

When in the military, there is a distinct difference between "home of record" and "residence" and there is this from ATF Ruling 2010-6 (http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-6.pdf):

A person’s “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State.” Ownership of a home or land within a given State is not sufficient, by itself, to establish a State of residence. However, ownership of a home or land within a particular State is not required to establish presence and intent to make a home in that State. Furthermore, temporary travel, such as short-term stays, vacations, or other transient acts in a State are not sufficient to establish a State of residence because the individual demonstrates no intention of making a home in that State.

So being home on leave would not satisfy the Federal residency requirement. IIRC there is something from ATF which specifically addresses military...and reinforces the orders = residency idea...but I can't find it now.

That all being said, would it stop the individual from purchasing and taking possession in his home of record state? No...but it would be a technical (I hate using that word) violation of Federal law.

sevensix2x51
02-21-2011, 12:51 AM
well, i just want to say that i love my state. i dont agree with a lot of the laws, but i still love california. it's my home, we have great weather, awesome fishing, and i can get just about any kind of food in the world within a 20 minute drive from my house. i guess if i werent from here, i might feel differently. but i owe it to my kids to make them 5th generation san diego natives... :shrug:

dont let the front door hit you on the backside when you leave... :D

and good luck with your transfer.

LeatherNuts
02-21-2011, 12:55 AM
Exactly the information I was looking for. My main reason for asking was that this situation already transpired, I bought a Mini-14 from a buddy. We went to the CA DOJ website and downloaded the transfer paperwork, took the gun and the money to a local FFL at YellowMart and was told that neither they or anyone else in the state would touch our transfer because he had an out of state license. We made our transfer anyhow and I maintain a copy of a bill of sale, but I wanted to check the validity of what the FFL had said.

Speaking of FFL's and going way off subject does anyone know of any FFL's in the high desert or surrounding areas that are worth a damn? I had to drive an hour and a half to find one that understood that the RAA Saiga isn't illegal and would take delivery for me. Also is it normal in this state to have a dealer openly admit to charging a minimum 90% mark-up on guns?

And yes the climate is nice (except for right now). As soon as the weather breaks my two wheeled hobby will take over.:D

jtmkinsd
02-21-2011, 1:00 AM
Exactly the information I was looking for. My main reason for asking was that this situation already transpired, I bought a Mini-14 from a buddy. We went to the CA DOJ website and downloaded the transfer paperwork, took the gun and the money to a local FFL at YellowMart and was told that neither they or anyone else in the state would touch our transfer because he had an out of state license. We made our transfer anyhow and I maintain a copy of a bill of sale, but I wanted to check the validity of what the FFL had said.

Speaking of FFL's and going way off subject does anyone know of any FFL's in the high desert or surrounding areas that are worth a damn? I had to drive an hour and a half to find one that understood that the RAA Saiga isn't illegal and would take delivery for me. Also is it normal in this state to have a dealer openly admit to charging a minimum 90% mark-up on guns?

And yes the climate is nice (except for right now). As soon as the weather breaks my two wheeled hobby will take over.:D

Probably not something you want to brag about on a public forum.

The FFL could have done the transaction if both you and the seller were military with orders to a duty station in CA...I'm not sure from the information you provided this was the case.

Edit: I saw in your first post you alluded to the fact you are both military...if that's the case, you both present your military ID and a copy of your orders to a duty station in CA and you are good to go for Private Party Transactions (PPT).

LeatherNuts
02-21-2011, 1:13 AM
Yes are both military.

I don't mean to ask questions that are shady, but how would California find out how the sale took place if god forbid I did do something that was contrary to the "don't get arrested" sticky? I have no idea what Washingtons state laws are, but in CT there is no waiting period for rifles and they can be bought and sold privately with no dealer involvement needed. Should I be registering the guns that I brought with me to this state? I'm really not trying to push any limits our bounds here, but I do attempt to be as legal as possible and if for some odd reason I'm not I atleast like to know about it, like I do now with the Mini and will attempt to rectify it.

jtmkinsd
02-21-2011, 1:23 AM
Yes are both military.

I don't mean to ask questions that are shady, but how would California find out how the sale took place if god forbid I did do something that was contrary to the "don't get arrested" sticky? I have no idea what Washingtons state laws are, but in CT there is no waiting period for rifles and they can be bought and sold privately with no dealer involvement needed. Should I be registering the guns that I brought with me to this state? I'm really not trying to push any limits our bounds here, but I do attempt to be as legal as possible and if for some odd reason I'm not I atleast like to know about it, like I do now with the Mini and will attempt to rectify it.

Bringing guns to CA is covered nicely here: Calguns Wiki / Moving to California with firearms (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Moving_to_California_with_firearms)

One exceptional note is military personnel bringing "assault weapons". CA requires military to obtain a "permit" to bring listed or featured assault weapons into CA. However, DOJ now requires a letter from your base commander stating a valid need for you to bring your "assault weapon" into CA. This has basically voided the military exemption for "assault weapons" as, to this point, I've no knowledge of any successful attempt to obtain such a letter from any base commander.

LeatherNuts
02-21-2011, 1:26 AM
Fortunately nothing I have falls into the AW category. As always gentlemen a wealth of appreciated knowledge.