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View Full Version : AR fail to feed


thayne
02-20-2011, 6:23 PM
So I finally got out and shot my new AR today. The first 20 rounds I shot was remington UMC and had no problems. Then I switched to russian tula and it failed to feed almost every shot. It would eject the spent shell, but the BCG seemed to be not going back far enough to strip a new round off the magazine. I tried some silver bear too and had the same problem.

At one point I took the BCG out and sprayed it down with oil and the worked for about 20 rounds, then it went back to only ejecting the spent case, but not loading a new one.

Any ideas?

my friend who also has a new AR didnt have any problems. We were using the same mags too C products 10 rnd

WiKDMoNKY
02-20-2011, 7:20 PM
I had pretty much the same problem (and more) with Wolf Classic .223 or any steel cased round and my AR. I switched to Federal .223 from Walmart and all the problems went away. I also found Federal XM193 5.56 and have found them to be the best. Just for a test I shot a couple hundred rounds of the federal and then shot a magazine of Serbian Pritzi Privi .223 65gr Match and it jammed or double fed every other round or so. I am pretty sure it is caused by the polymer coating used on Russian ammo to stop corrosion. I switched back to Federal and no problems. I posted on here and everyone said run 500 to 1000 rounds of 5.56 and then try some steel case and see what happens. Once everything gets worn a lot of people report that they can shoot anything they put in their gun. I am at about 300 rounds of 5.56 and when I hit 1000, I will give some cheap ammo a shot again.

I hoped I could get away with shooting cheap steel ammo with my AR and was a little disappointed when all it did was jam. I finally realized the AR is a Cadillac and it should be run on Premium and that is why I just bought a 7.62 Saiga Rifle, so I can shoot cheap ammo at the range. I found that you can get some SK/Ulyanovsk 7.62 for $3.59 a box and some Federal XM193 5.56 for $6.79. So for cheap ammo the AR is almost twice what the AK is to shoot. Or you can head over to Walmart and grab a Federal .223 100 round box for about $39.

Trust me, unless there is something wrong with your rifle, switching to Federal (or better) brass cased ammo will fix all of your problems.

Good Luck!!!

G-forceJunkie
02-20-2011, 7:38 PM
Quit shooting cheap, crap ammo!

Any ideas?

shadow65
02-20-2011, 7:40 PM
Break in with full powered ammo. Try the low powered stuff later.

2patchHero
02-20-2011, 7:41 PM
Sounds like you AR doesn't like the cheap stuff.

Sky_DiveR
02-20-2011, 8:01 PM
...At one point I took the BCG out and sprayed it down with oil and the worked for about 20 rounds, then it went back to only ejecting the spent case, but not loading a new one....

Are you only having problems with using steel ammo or both steel and brass? I've found steel ammo to be dirty and blows alot of junk into the BCG which may contribute to your problem.

Also if you're "spraying" down with a light oil like WD40 that also may be one of your problems since WD is very light oil. New builds need real oil to run and break in. I've heard some use a grease/oil combo to make sure the BCG stays lubricated.

Hump0311
02-20-2011, 8:09 PM
Hey just out of curiosity did you get the lot numbers off the ammo you fired and what was the grain on the ammo??

thayne
02-20-2011, 8:13 PM
Yea its only steel ammo im having problems with. I guess i should have tested it before i bought 2000 rounds :S

The lube I sprayed on was a gun lube. I dont know what brand, it was my friends. Slick something.

I was thinking it may just need to break in more. its seems close to wanting to feed it. Like its just barely messing up. I just got done cleaning it up and it was a mess lol.

It was pissing me off because my friends ar was eating it up no problem, but he said he cleaned his really well and greased contact points on the bcg.

I just wiped mine down with clp to clean off the shipping lube they coat everything with

thayne
02-20-2011, 8:15 PM
Hey just out of curiosity did you get the lot numbers off the ammo you fired and what was the grain on the ammo??

Lot # on the tula is 706 its 55gr fmj (it may be 7064. There is a 4 on the same line but its quite a few spaces away from the 706)

The silver bear was my friends, 62gr HP I dont know the lot number

thayne
02-20-2011, 8:17 PM
Sounds like you AR doesn't like the cheap stuff.

I guess its like my women. High Maintenance! :chris:

thayne
02-20-2011, 8:20 PM
I had pretty much the same problem (and more) with Wolf Classic .223 or any steel cased round and my AR. I switched to Federal .223 from Walmart and all the problems went away. I also found Federal XM193 5.56 and have found them to be the best. Just for a test I shot a couple hundred rounds of the federal and then shot a magazine of Serbian Pritzi Privi .223 65gr Match and it jammed or double fed every other round or so. I am pretty sure it is caused by the polymer coating used on Russian ammo to stop corrosion. I switched back to Federal and no problems. I posted on here and everyone said run 500 to 1000 rounds of 5.56 and then try some steel case and see what happens. Once everything gets worn a lot of people report that they can shoot anything they put in their gun. I am at about 300 rounds of 5.56 and when I hit 1000, I will give some cheap ammo a shot again.

I hoped I could get away with shooting cheap steel ammo with my AR and was a little disappointed when all it did was jam. I finally realized the AR is a Cadillac and it should be run on Premium and that is why I just bought a 7.62 Saiga Rifle, so I can shoot cheap ammo at the range. I found that you can get some SK/Ulyanovsk 7.62 for $3.59 a box and some Federal XM193 5.56 for $6.79. So for cheap ammo the AR is almost twice what the AK is to shoot. Or you can head over to Walmart and grab a Federal .223 100 round box for about $39.

Trust me, unless there is something wrong with your rifle, switching to Federal (or better) brass cased ammo will fix all of your problems.

Good Luck!!!

Yeah the remington ammo shot fine. I guess I can just use the steel ammo in my mini-14. It eats anything

Twoodland
02-20-2011, 8:29 PM
Everyone looks to blame the ammo... Your gun is new and tight. When i first took my AR to the range i had a number failures to feed and short stroke failures with the Tula Ammo. I tested some good brass cased stuff after about 100 rounds of the cheap crap and it did better. Once i broke the rifle in and matched and polished the barrel and receivers feed rams it eats everything with no complains. shoots great.

Edit: I also busted everything apart and lubed it up very well before shooting. And i also compulsively cycle the rifle by hand hundreds of times before i shot it lol

Sky_DiveR
02-20-2011, 8:35 PM
From what I'm getting... you just need to lube it up better. Break it in some more since the steel stuff is pretty dirty... or buy a piston conversion (the piston guys can chime in here:D).

Be glad your AR wasn't feeding everything right off the bat. It may mean you have tighter tolerances and your AR will last longer before everything gets sloppy and ya gotta replace parts.

Take a look at this (excuse the cussing).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXIsKEHo-4g

Jaxpire
02-20-2011, 8:42 PM
Yeah what they said above. Wolf is known for being a low powered round.

thayne
02-20-2011, 8:49 PM
From what I'm getting... you just need to lube it up better. Break it in some more since the steel stuff is pretty dirty... or buy a piston conversion (the piston guys can chime in here:D).

Be glad your AR wasn't feeding everything right off the bat. It may mean you have tighter tolerances and your AR will last longer before everything gets sloppy and ya gotta replace parts.

Take a look at this (excuse the cussing).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXIsKEHo-4g

Nice Ill have to give that a try

Lead-Thrower
02-20-2011, 9:19 PM
So I finally got out and shot my new AR today. The first 20 rounds I shot was remington UMC and had no problems. Then I switched to russian tula and it failed to feed almost every shot. It would eject the spent shell, but the BCG seemed to be not going back far enough to strip a new round off the magazine. I tried some silver bear too and had the same problem.

There's your problem. Never had good luck with any of the steel stuff...

captbilly
02-20-2011, 9:24 PM
I have only had a similar problem on one of my AR style rifles. but it turned out to be related to a rough finish on the Bolt Carrier Group and/or upper receiver. I probably could have just suffered through a bunch of clearing jams until it broke in but I decided to smooth out the parts instead. After some polishing with 2000 sandpaper the rifle has never had a failure to feed. I had the failure to feed issue with every type of ammo I tried, and now it works with every type of ammo I have tried (probably 8 different brands and loads).

I personally do not like to use polymer coated steel ammo, but it should work. The problem with the steel ammo is two fold; 1. The coating can melt off if you leave a round chambered in a very hot barrel, 2. The very cheap steel ammo tends to be very low powered, lower than the spec. that the buffer and spring was designed for. Many people like to say how well their AK or other semi auto works with steel ammo but the simple fact is that there is no magic way to make a semi auto work well over a wide range of pressures. On the AK they effectively over gas the rifle so that it will work with very low powered ammo, or when partially jammed with dirt. The problem is that this causes more violent cycling of the gas system which results in poor accuracy and possibly, broken parts. On the FN FAL there is a gas adjustment which allows the shooter, or armorer, to adjust the gas system for different loads. Many target shooters install similar systems on their AR to help with accuracy. They adjust the gas block "valve" to supply just enough gas to cycle the gas system. This provide minimum movement in the gas system, and hopefully improves how the rifle shoots, but make the rifle unreliable with any ammo that has less pressure then what it was adjusted for. Not a problem for target shooters who carefully select their ammo, but not so satisfactory for a gun running all sorts of cheap ammo.

The AR was designed as a weapons system for the wealthiest country on earth. The soldiers in the US could count on ammo that provided a certain pressure, while the Soviet Union needed to contend with highly variable quality ammo.

sevensix2x51
02-20-2011, 9:42 PM
I was thinking it may just need to break in more. its seems close to wanting to feed it. Like its just barely messing up.

just lean into it. honestly, im running two 16" midlengths with rifle buffers no less, and they run fantastically with wolf. but if i hand one to somebody else to shoot, it will always fail to feed, in exactly the manner you describe. hold it tight, and dont ride the recoil. any small amount that you allow the rifle to move rearward is counteracting the movement of the bolt (uh, if that makes sense, im not a physics teacher.)

no promises, but thats what works for me. :)

thayne
02-20-2011, 10:03 PM
just lean into it. honestly, im running two 16" midlengths with rifle buffers no less, and they run fantastically with wolf. but if i hand one to somebody else to shoot, it will always fail to feed, in exactly the manner you describe. hold it tight, and dont ride the recoil. any small amount that you allow the rifle to move rearward is counteracting the movement of the bolt (uh, if that makes sense, im not a physics teacher.)

no promises, but thats what works for me. :)

I know exactly what you are saying. I tried that too but it didnt help. Im going to try greasing the rails on my bcg and the bolt next time to see if that helps. I also broke down and ordered a bunch of brass ammo :o

thayne
02-20-2011, 10:05 PM
There's your problem. Never had good luck with any of the steel stuff...

Yeah it was annoying because I only took 20 rounds of the good stuff, just to sight it in and then I planned on plinking with the cheap stuff Grrrr!

StoneThrower
02-20-2011, 10:08 PM
That was the first time shooting my newly build AR too, and it was eating up everything Thayne and I threw at it without any issues (Wolf, Silver Bear and Remington). But while I was putting together my AR, I used a degreaser to strip away all the manufacturing oils used and applied a combination of grease and lube on all the critical points.

thayne
02-20-2011, 10:09 PM
I have only had a similar problem on one of my AR style rifles. but it turned out to be related to a rough finish on the Bolt Carrier Group and/or upper receiver. I probably could have just suffered through a bunch of clearing jams until it broke in but I decided to smooth out the parts instead. After some polishing with 2000 sandpaper the rifle has never had a failure to feed. I had the failure to feed issue with every type of ammo I tried, and now it works with every type of ammo I have tried (probably 8 different brands and loads).

I personally do not like to use polymer coated steel ammo, but it should work. The problem with the steel ammo is two fold; 1. The coating can melt off if you leave a round chambered in a very hot barrel, 2. The very cheap steel ammo tends to be very low powered, lower than the spec. that the buffer and spring was designed for. Many people like to say how well their AK or other semi auto works with steel ammo but the simple fact is that there is no magic way to make a semi auto work well over a wide range of pressures. On the AK they effectively over gas the rifle so that it will work with very low powered ammo, or when partially jammed with dirt. The problem is that this causes more violent cycling of the gas system which results in poor accuracy and possibly, broken parts. On the FN FAL there is a gas adjustment which allows the shooter, or armorer, to adjust the gas system for different loads. Many target shooters install similar systems on their AR to help with accuracy. They adjust the gas block "valve" to supply just enough gas to cycle the gas system. This provide minimum movement in the gas system, and hopefully improves how the rifle shoots, but make the rifle unreliable with any ammo that has less pressure then what it was adjusted for. Not a problem for target shooters who carefully select their ammo, but not so satisfactory for a gun running all sorts of cheap ammo.

The AR was designed as a weapons system for the wealthiest country on earth. The soldiers in the US could count on ammo that provided a certain pressure, while the Soviet Union needed to contend with highly variable quality ammo.
I tried looking in the chamber for any gunk, but my eyes arent that good and I just couldnt tell. I scrubbed the crap out of it with solvent and my chamber brush so hopefully if there was any its gone now.

StoneThrower
02-20-2011, 10:10 PM
Here's an article of how-to lube\grease your AR.
http://www.varminthunters.com/ar15tech/ar15greasepoints.html

thayne
02-20-2011, 10:11 PM
That was the first time shooting my newly build AR too, and it was eating up everything Thayne and I threw at it without any issues (Wolf, Silver Bear and Remington). But while I was putting together my AR, I used a degreaser to strip away all the manufacturing oils used and applied a combination of grease and lube on all the critical points.

Yeah I was about ready to throw my rifle into the river! LOL :chris: At least I got some good practice clearing it lol

thayne
02-20-2011, 10:11 PM
Here's an article of how-to lube\grease your AR.
http://www.varminthunters.com/ar15tech/ar15greasepoints.html

Check out this video too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXIsKEHo-4g

StoneThrower
02-20-2011, 10:23 PM
I know exactly what you are saying. I tried that too but it didnt help. Im going to try greasing the rails on my bcg and the bolt next time to see if that helps. I also broke down and ordered a bunch of brass ammo :o

I do not recall how many rounds I fired through your rifle, but I didn't experience any issues and you had Wolf ammo loaded too.

Remember Thayne, I learned how to shoot in the Army. :D

thayne
02-20-2011, 10:27 PM
I do not recall how many rounds I fired through your rifle, but I didn't experience any issues and you had Wolf ammo loaded too.

Remember Thayne, I learned how to shoot in the Army. :D

No, it failed for you too! They taught you how to shoot in the army? Is that why you kept missing the target? I thought you were only issued airsoft :D

StoneThrower
02-20-2011, 10:32 PM
That's cold as ice. I was shooting irons and had to sight it in. But you should have seen my grouping at the end. Also, I'd rather spray n' pray than deal with a make-shift bolt action AR.

thayne
02-20-2011, 10:37 PM
yeah bolt action ar is no bueno. Hopefully the grease will do the trick, but ill have brass ammo by next time so I should be good to go

Capt. Speirs
02-21-2011, 8:07 AM
Break in with full powered ammo. Try the low powered stuff later.

+1 , quit expecting so much from a brand new gun, break the darn thing in first.

pointedstick
02-21-2011, 10:48 AM
Never tried wolf, but my AR (Spike's upper) functions flawlessly with Silver bear as well as American brass-cased ammo, even when I run it really dry. Could your AR be undergassed?

FeuerFrei
02-21-2011, 5:27 PM
Never tried wolf, but my AR (Spike's upper) functions flawlessly with Silver bear as well as American brass-cased ammo, even when I run it really dry. Could your AR be undergassed?

My spider sense tells me "over-gassed".
Too many manufacturers run big gas holes to compensate for general use ammo. aka; brass.
Wolf will work if chamber is NATO standard and is properly sized gas port.
To do a quick fix for this I use an M16 carrier and start with an H buffer. (this is carbine)
It slowed down the cycle enough to stop the stuck case syndrome and cycles all steel cased ammo and brass without issue.
No torn case rims either.
This worked for me so YMMV. Good luck!