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CRTguns
02-18-2011, 11:04 PM
This from the mouths of folks at Bushmaster and Remington.

The facility under the roof at the Windham maine plant was shut down to consolidate production to the remington, ilion NY plant. They expect to have it back running by fall- they said this about marklin last year, and gere, 14 months later, remington has not made any new marlins.

So we can expect that the ACR will be on vacation for a year, plus, and lost or forgotten completely.

Scar wins by default- NOT because it's a better gun. I'll never give up MY ACR!


fyi... Rem and bushmaster ARE the same company- the Rem and bush versions of the reifle are the same- except that the rem as an option , can be had in SBR and FA versions, just to keep licnensing and manufacturing straight.

zushikikato
02-18-2011, 11:20 PM
Wow. I have one of these on my way too. I wonder how ceasing production of the ACR will affect pricing.

ChrisTKHarris
02-18-2011, 11:22 PM
Spelling and punctuation are important.

straykiller
02-18-2011, 11:32 PM
it died the second they set the price for it.

Uxi
02-18-2011, 11:34 PM
Always kinda wanted one... Anyone selling it with a bullet button/PRK friendly?

DanHuuN
02-18-2011, 11:59 PM
Had one, sold one; still happy

Solidsnake87
02-19-2011, 12:14 AM
it died the second they set the price for it.

+1. The truth could not be put more plainly than that!

Toolbox X
02-19-2011, 12:52 AM
What is your source for this information?

Dhena81
02-19-2011, 12:53 AM
I think the Bushmaster ACR is dead and will only be made by Remington now.

kozumasbullitt
02-19-2011, 12:56 AM
I don't think the ACR is going anywhere but beware that this is an ACR hating forum and you will get a lot of hate in these kind of threads.

kozumasbullitt
02-19-2011, 12:59 AM
I think the Bushmaster ACR is dead and will only be made by Remington now.

I read that the ACR will be made at the Remington plant, the civi version will still get the Bushmaster roll mark. I think it is funny that people think the Remington ACR will be available in the commercial market when Remington has said it will not.

pacrimguru
02-19-2011, 1:37 AM
The facility under the roof at the Windham maine plant was shut down to consolidate production to the remington, ilion NY plant. They expect to have it back running by fall- they said this about marklin last year, and gere, 14 months later, remington has not made any new marlins.

that's a shame. :(

Colt-45
02-19-2011, 1:50 AM
I was close to purchasing one. I choose M6A3 instead.

Will buy one in the future, if only it weren't so damn expensive I'd buy one tomorrow.

Maddog5150
02-19-2011, 1:52 AM
Price really is what turned me away from it. In reality, it should be no more than 1200 bucks.
So I am going to say screw it, buy a mini and the sparta stock kit :D

MrPlink
02-19-2011, 3:34 AM
Scar wins by default-

There can be only one! :p

http://thesocialpath.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099496db8833010536319d86970c-500wi

I went with the scar (17s) but truth be told Id prefer to see more competition out there for it. Keeps companies on their toes.

And being that Ive ultimately decided that I like just about anything thats potentially lethal and fires projectiles, Im always sad when a design or company disappears.

JohnnyRooks
02-19-2011, 5:05 AM
Scar wins by default- NOT because it's a better gun. I'll never give up MY ACR!




don't hate my SCAR dave..:D

emptybottle151
02-19-2011, 6:20 AM
Just wait till Beretta starts selling their ARX to the civilian market.

Bongos
02-19-2011, 6:30 AM
Saw a ACR yesterday, was impress with the quick barrel change but turned off in finding it takes AR parts, to me if it is a weapon of the future, why base it on weapons of the past.

All these new guns cost around the $2K mark, which can be any AR DI or Piston build with premium components
The Beretta looks interesting though.

SixPointEight
02-19-2011, 6:38 AM
I was close to purchasing one. I choose M6A3 instead.

Will buy one in the future, if only it weren't so damn expensive.

I totally want to buy one, but it'll be a while till the price comes down

dieselpower
02-19-2011, 6:38 AM
it died the second they set the price for it.

+1

BM has a way of not addressing what the customer wants.

With the M17S it was refinement and further development. The M17S would have been a great firearm if they had kept up with it and listened to the customers on how to fix it. In stead of doing that, they killed it.

Same with 1:7 twist. I remember Jerrod on AR15.com asking everyone if they should produce 1:7 twist. Everyone said, "yes". They did a single run of like 500 barrels. It took several weeks to sell them all, so they canceled it saying, there wasn't enough consumer support.

They talked about expanding the Disapator line into several combinations, Mid gas, Carbine gas, free float, railed. The consumers were all for it. It had a huge support base. They dropped that and produced Carbon Fiber plastic AR15s.

Bushmaster is dead because they don't listen to what their own customers say.

The original Bushmaster died late last year when they closed the Bushmaster Plant. They moved the roll mark over to another Remington Plant. This is just a death rattle..BMis dead.

Steve1968LS2
02-19-2011, 6:55 AM
Hitler was right about the ACR after all!!! lol

The SCAR was better.. but the ACR could have been tweeked to be even better (lighten up the front of that damn gun!)

In the end I think it was just too expensive for what you got and people couldn't justify it over a nice AR for a lot less $$$.

HK Dave
02-19-2011, 7:53 AM
it died the second they set the price for it.

haha! +1

If they had set it to $1200 or so, it would have sold like hot cakes... but an opening price of $3K? ROFL

The boys at bushie were smokin some good stuff.

ZombieTactics
02-19-2011, 8:02 AM
The ARX is my new adolescent crush, lol.

slappomatt
02-19-2011, 8:03 AM
so because they shut down a different plant before that means the ACR is dead? stop with the rumors.

ChrisTKHarris
02-19-2011, 8:09 AM
Just get an FN SCAR. :)

X-NewYawker
02-19-2011, 8:26 AM
More like it committed suicide... like those folks at Masada... ironic...

aybyman
02-19-2011, 8:40 AM
My ACR is coming in on Monday. This is certainly sad news =[

762.DEFENSE
02-19-2011, 8:42 AM
Agreed!
Just get an FN SCAR. :)

kozumasbullitt
02-19-2011, 9:04 AM
Why would anyone expect the ACR to be $1200? The MR1 costs more than that with less features, the ACR basic should be right at the $1500 mark with the advanced around $1800. I think the release price was outrageous but the market set the price and ACRs can be found well under 2K. I like the fact that the ACR has common parts with the AR because parts are easily and cheap, it will run me $400 to get a Geiselle trigger for my Scar when it only cost me $180 for me ACR.

I am not a ACR super fan but I do own one and can give first hand experience about it. I am sure that most guys that knock it never owned one or never had much time handling one. I do not find the ACR to be heavy and anyone that does should hit the weights especially considering my tiny girlfriend said "this feels light" when she shouldered it. I do think it has more front weight then a standard AR but I see all these guys with lights, lasers, and all kinds if junk on the front rail of their ARs, how can you complain about front heavy?

gunsnrovers
02-19-2011, 9:10 AM
I agree. $1200 is not a realistic price point. The basic at $1500 would be more appropriate. The Remington version does have some features that should be on the basic model. As a whole it's also pretty porky. Weighs about the same as the Robinson M96 carbine. Add on a RDS and a torch and it's going to shot up closer to 9lbs.

I want to like it, but not as it comes from BM and not at that price point. :(

kozumasbullitt
02-19-2011, 9:14 AM
I also like all of the ARX band wagon jumpers just like the Masada. I will bet anyone a lane at the range that the ARX will not have a MSRP of "well below $2000" "around $1500" or will be released anytime in 2011 or 2012. I think the ARX is cool but I can't believe it will be that cheap.

Toast
02-19-2011, 9:14 AM
I am not a ACR super fan but I do own one and can give first hand experience about it. I am sure that most guys that knock it never owned one or never had much time handling one. I do not find the ACR to be heavy and anyone that does should hit the weights especially considering my tiny girlfriend said "this feels light" when she shouldered it. I do think it has more front weight then a standard AR but I see all these guys with lights, lasers, and all kinds if junk on the front rail of their ARs, how can you complain about front heavy?

8.2lbs is heavy, especially for a 5.56 rifle that is made of plastic. A comparable M4gery will weigh about 2lbs less... And thats just the naked weight, throw some optics and a light on the ACR and it'll be over 10lbs.

45R
02-19-2011, 9:18 AM
Plenty of other 5.56 piston rifles out there. If the ACR is gone something else will pop up.

Gryff
02-19-2011, 11:11 AM
but the ACR could have been tweeked to be even better (lighten up the front of that damn gun!)

Yeah, that was the shocker for me when I got to compare an ACR with a SCAR at a gun store in Idaho. The ACR is a pig in weight comparison.

Outta Control
02-19-2011, 11:17 AM
Do y'all think if Magpul never sold the right to the ACR would have it been more successful? What I mean is that when Tactical Arms reviewed the Magpul ACR it was an exciting innovative product and for the original makers you know they would put their heart and soul to keep it that way. Now by selling the rights to BM/Rem they have no control on its development and from what I am reading from some users and reports the one time jewel product that was so advanced in thinking is now possibly on the chopping block. Thoughts?

Gryff
02-19-2011, 11:22 AM
Do y'all think if Magpul never sold the right to the ACR would have it been more successful?

Only if Travis and Chris used them for the videos and classes. Because if Travis and Chris like it, it must be good!

rojocorsa
02-19-2011, 12:43 PM
SCAR is still uglier. :neener:

MikeR
02-19-2011, 5:56 PM
it died the second they set the price for it.

The ARX is my new adolescent crush, lol.

Just get an FN SCAR. :)

QFT!

If the ACR was <1.5k they would have sold a metric **** ton including one to me. The ARX will look nice sitting next to a SCAR in my safe. :D ...and ive never wanted anything Beretta before in my life, you can thank that Beretta rep, impressive.

CK_32
02-19-2011, 6:29 PM
Seems to be the way a lot of gun battles go. One always seems to just sh*t out at the peak of the battle and just drop out of the race and a new "battle" chosen or service weapon is born

UserM4
02-19-2011, 6:34 PM
If ARX was $1500 and the ACR was $1500, I'd probably choose the ARX, assuming it's reliable and all of that stuff.

zushikikato
02-19-2011, 6:47 PM
IDK about you guys but if price bothers you just look around for a slightly used one they will be the price you want them to be in the first place.

I got mine for $1500 shipped with 3 mags and that vertical grip for the MOE

Quiet
02-19-2011, 7:01 PM
The ACR is dying and the SCAR-L gets used in a commerical. :p

USAA commerical.
First 3 seconds... "this is our executive committee..."
Soliders have Mk 16 Mod 0 (FN SCAR-L).
1s1hqYWd6pI

Just stiring the ACR v SCAR hate pot. :p
:hide:

Harbinger
02-19-2011, 7:06 PM
What is your source for this information?

I'm with you. Where is this coming from CRTguns? Some dudes you talked to or an official press announcement?

Mike

Knife Edge
02-19-2011, 7:42 PM
It's true, March 31st is Bushmaster's last day in Windham, ME. It's sad to see another US company drift off into the history books. Hopefully, Remington keeps the line alive and puts some R&D into the company.

Just google "Bushmaster closing plant March 31st" You won't have a hard time finding any supporting information.

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/3834/bushmaster-and-thompsoncenter-factories-to-close

berg
02-19-2011, 8:26 PM
Is the ACR better than the XCR?

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/off-topic-discussion/92924d1260264700-additions-my-arsenal-xcr_odin_tan.gif

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/off-topic-discussion/92926d1260264737-additions-my-arsenal-magpul_masada_16fde.jpg

drclark
02-19-2011, 8:59 PM
I'm sure that ACRs will still flow off of Remington's line as long as they are offering it for sale to the MIL/LE communities. As long as demand is low, I don't think there should be any problems procuring civie versions of the ACR. Now, if demand jumps in the .gov business world, then things might be different.

Overall, it has to be hard to try to introduce a new 5.56 carbine when Remington/Bushmaster are already players in the DI and Piston AR market. At 3K MSRP, I'm sure alot of potential customers opted for AR based platforms rather than the ACR. Overall, the ACR does not offer that much of leap forward in design, features or ergos to really justify the price they introduced it at.

Now if they had offered a 6.8 or 6.5 caliber kit (or as the primary caliber) or a decent optic as part of the 3K package, there might have been more buyers. When all is said and done, its just another .22 caliber poodle shooter.

I like both the ACR and SCAR, but I already have several varieties 5.56 carbines and an unbuilt lower sitting in my safe and really cannot justify the outlay in cash to go for another 5.56 carbine. I'm just a casual plinker and I haven't been to the range much since my son was born about a year ago, so my AR, mini14, or SU16 get the job done for me. Now, if I were still single and didn't have a new college fund to save for, I might have already bought one or two....

If a major LE or .gov agency adopts the ACR, then I would expect civilian sales to increase dramatically. I think a lot of people are playing wait and see with any new rifle system... after all the AR platform has 40 years of combat testing and evolution backing it up.

drc

Outta Control
02-19-2011, 9:10 PM
I stand corrected. It was not on Tactical Arms did I see the Magpul's Masada aka the ACR but it was on Future Weapons.

ZJhPMIVgF6c

bomb_on_bus
02-19-2011, 9:17 PM
Nobody is buying the ACR for many reasons. Bushmaster and Remington selling the gun for a whole lot more then when originally conceived. I can tell you the biggest mistake was the price switch when it was released to the public. Throw the ecomony meltdown on top of it and you end up with what Bushmaster and the ACR are facing.

Magpul had a badarse setup and had features that werent incorporated into the production model. Having the huge price difference between models that in essence didnt warrant the price hike that they were charging. The SCAR is to me in the same boat as the ACR. I wouldnt buy the gun for the simple fact that the gun has 3 different shades of the same color let alone a bunch of other reasons.

Outta Control
02-19-2011, 9:24 PM
Nobody is buying the ACR for many reasons. Bushmaster and Remington selling the gun for a whole lot more then when originally conceived. I can tell you the biggest mistake was the price switch when it was released to the public. Throw the ecomony meltdown on top of it and you end up with what Bushmaster and the ACR are facing.

Magpul had a badarse setup and had features that werent incorporated into the production model. Having the huge price difference between models that in essence didnt warrant the price hike that they were charging. The SCAR is to me in the same boat as the ACR. I wouldnt buy the gun for the simple fact that the gun has 3 different shades of the same color let alone a bunch of other reasons.

This is the point I was trying to make. I feel that if Magpul kept the Masada and not sold the rights to BM/Rem what would have been the future of it. Given the popularity of the Magpul products I feel that they would have made the Masada a bigger hit.

CRTguns
02-19-2011, 9:31 PM
I'm with you. Where is this coming from CRTguns? Some dudes you talked to or an official press announcement?

Mike

I go to the source for info - rather than spew unbased banter and gossip on the web.;)



don't hate my SCAR dave..:D

"Johnny"- you and I are going to have a Polymer modular 21st century assault rifle olympics- to settle this once and for all.


Hitler was right about the ACR after all!!! lol

The SCAR was better.. but the ACR could have been tweeked to be even better (lighten up the front of that damn gun!)

In the end I think it was just too expensive for what you got and people couldn't justify it over a nice AR for a lot less $$$.

I cut mine to 16 overall,(w/ comp) and took off 7 ounces of fat around the barrel. Handles nice now.


Why would anyone expect the ACR to be $1200? The MR1 costs more than that with less features, the ACR basic should be right at the $1500 mark with the advanced around $1800. I think the release price was outrageous but the market set the price and ACRs can be found well under 2K. I like the fact that the ACR has common parts with the AR because parts are easily and cheap, it will run me $400 to get a Geiselle trigger for my Scar when it only cost me $180 for me ACR.

I am not a ACR super fan but I do own one and can give first hand experience about it. I am sure that most guys that knock it never owned one or never had much time handling one. I do not find the ACR to be heavy and anyone that does should hit the weights especially considering my tiny girlfriend said "this feels light" when she shouldered it. I do think it has more front weight then a standard AR but I see all these guys with lights, lasers, and all kinds if junk on the front rail of their ARs, how can you complain about front heavy?

<--- I luv this guy.

ElvenSoul
02-19-2011, 9:37 PM
Maybe the Chinese will buy it like the did Humvee

CRTguns
02-19-2011, 9:39 PM
Nobody is buying the ACR for many reasons. ........

Nobody's buying? you sure about that?

Fact is most folks with SCAR and ACR opinions have neither owner nor fired either of these weopons- so these evaluations of what some internet cowboy would or would not buy does not count for anything. The gun has sold tens of thousands accross the country.

Bushmaster is just bad at decision making. As was said above- they have never listened to their end consumers.

On a side note, here stands a challenge- at any stage or area rifle pr 3 gun match- I'll bring my ACR, and you bring your SCAR. You beat me, I'll openly condemn the ACR and sell mine for peanuts.

Till then, keep telling yourself your spongy little SCAR makes you a better man.

gunsnrovers
02-19-2011, 10:07 PM
I cut mine to 16 overall,(w/ comp) and took off 7 ounces of fat around the barrel. Handles nice now.


Do you have pics of the cut and re-contoured barrel?

Dhena81
02-20-2011, 12:19 AM
Dude- they are the freeking same gun !!!!!!!!!!! Get a cle on reality. Bushmaster and remington is the same damn company.

Relax all I was saying is they might not have the Bushmaster rollmark. Unless your saying the ACR is only manufactured in Maine or wherever the plant that is closing is at. I don't know your the guy with all the info with no link why don't you clue me in on reality there chief.

Centurion_D
02-20-2011, 7:10 AM
What was the MSRP for the ACR?

HK Dave
02-20-2011, 7:51 AM
I still think the hunk of plastic should only cost $1200. :)

It is much easier and cheaper to injection mold the parts on an ACR then it is to CNC and anodize the metal parts of an AR15.

Sorry guys, you're paying for R&D, not the actual item. But that can be said for anything new.

I don't think the ACR is a horrible weapon. I actually think it's a thing of beauty, but $2K+ it is worth not.

Outta Control
02-20-2011, 8:02 AM
Wait a second when a company acquires new technology they also acquired most or all of the R&D to develop the product so I do not buy into the more money for R&D KoolAid. They can only tweek it here and there, shave off material here and there, or replace materials but you can't justify raising the cost when a finished product realistically cost $X dollars the raising it almost 2x that amount. As an example look at Oracle Corp buying SUN, they didn't do any R&D into SUN's technology but they only worked on it to make sure it will compatible to Oracle's system and if you happen to see the current pricing on the Oracle/SUN product it is way over priced for the storage products. Sorry I do not buy into your R&D statement.

HK Dave
02-20-2011, 8:09 AM
? You don't have to buy into it. It's a simple fact. You're paying r&d costs. With an ar15 r&d was paid for a lonnnnggggg time ago.

xm177
02-20-2011, 9:25 AM
Let overpriced fish guns die. The ACR failed on many fronts. Price point, number one. Second, the purpose of using plastic parts is so that the gun is lightweight, but somehow that rifle got heavy. The safety is awkward and the barrel is a 1/9 twist chambered in 223. Pass.

DocSkinner
02-20-2011, 9:30 AM
Slightly off topic, but why the hell do gun manufacturers stay in, move to, or consolidate back to gun-unfriendly states?

Why are they supporting attacks on our guns rights by states like NY and Mass by providing them with bigger tax bases? Move production to states that actually allow citizens to buy and own their products.

drclark
02-20-2011, 11:18 AM
Its probably better to call the "R&D" costs non-recurring engineeering or NRE costs. It does take significant amount of engineering and investment to go from a one-off prototype to a production line ready design along with any tooling or production equipment that was required. On top of that we don't know the details of the licensing deal that magpul cut with remington/bushmaster. How much of the msrp goes to magpul vs how much covers NRE to take the design to production vs actual material and labor cost to produce the rifle vs profit we can only speculate. Once the design is unemcumbered by any patent or copyright issues, the price could come down as other mfgrs jump in and start building clones.

The bottom line is that the ACR does not represent a big enough leap forward over the myriad of DI or piston based AR platforms or one of the many other 5.56 semi auto rifles to justify its price tag. Its biggest discriminator is the ability for the end user to easily change barrels/caliber with no special tools or training which Rem/BM have failed to capitalize on. When the ACR was released for sale it should have been in conjunction with a launch of aftermarket barrel/caliber kits to go along with it.

With all that being said, its possible that the price could come down over time. With a brand new product, its easier to lower the price over time than raise it. Just look at sony ps3 or iphone pricing history.

I also suspect that if magpul kept the rifle in house it would probably have been even more expensive since magpul would have probably had to invest significant $$ to create the infrastructure to put the rifle into full production given that they primarily make plastic AR accessories and not entire firearms. Just the liability insurance alone to cover the eventual kaboom related injury is probably a huge cost that a company like rem/BM already have in place

Uxi
02-20-2011, 4:47 PM
The SCAR doesn't have the ease of caliber changing does it? Why do people keep comparing them? Did the 6.8 SPCII barrel/bolt ever come out for the ACR?

bomb_on_bus
02-20-2011, 5:13 PM
Nobody's buying? you sure about that?

Fact is most folks with SCAR and ACR opinions have neither owner nor fired either of these weopons- so these evaluations of what some internet cowboy would or would not buy does not count for anything. The gun has sold tens of thousands accross the country.

Bushmaster is just bad at decision making. As was said above- they have never listened to their end consumers.

On a side note, here stands a challenge- at any stage or area rifle pr 3 gun match- I'll bring my ACR, and you bring your SCAR. You beat me, I'll openly condemn the ACR and sell mine for peanuts.

Till then, keep telling yourself your spongy little SCAR makes you a better man.

Where did I say I own a SCAR?

I dont own either rifles nor do I have plans to own either. Both rifles are way over priced and over hyped along with some other things I dont really care for. I have shot both guns and was disapointed with the ACR for not having everything that the original masada design had incorporated. The SCAR never really appealed to me for other reasons. Both rifles were supposed to be a evolutionary step forward for the 5.56mm.

docsmileyface
02-20-2011, 5:38 PM
The SCAR doesn't have the ease of caliber changing does it? Why do people keep comparing them? Did the 6.8 SPCII barrel/bolt ever come out for the ACR?

FN is suppose to be working on a 5.56 conversion kit for the Mk 17, so yeah, seems like caliber change should be possible.

MrPlink
02-20-2011, 5:46 PM
I want a 7.62x39 conversion for my 17 already

themailman
02-20-2011, 6:18 PM
+1

BM has a way of not addressing what the customer wants.

With the M17S it was refinement and further development. The M17S would have been a great firearm if they had kept up with it and listened to the customers on how to fix it. In stead of doing that, they killed it.

Same with 1:7 twist. I remember Jerrod on AR15.com asking everyone if they should produce 1:7 twist. Everyone said, "yes". They did a single run of like 500 barrels. It took several weeks to sell them all, so they canceled it saying, there wasn't enough consumer support.

They talked about expanding the Disapator line into several combinations, Mid gas, Carbine gas, free float, railed. The consumers were all for it. It had a huge support base. They dropped that and produced Carbon Fiber plastic AR15s.

Bushmaster is dead because they don't listen to what their own customers say.

The original Bushmaster died late last year when they closed the Bushmaster Plant. They moved the roll mark over to another Remington Plant. This is just a death rattle..BMis dead.

Well put +1

phamkl
02-20-2011, 7:12 PM
So... What features did the Masada have that the ACR didn't?

Uxi
02-20-2011, 8:46 PM
FN is suppose to be working on a 5.56 conversion kit for the Mk 17, so yeah, seems like caliber change should be possible.

I know it's supposed to have a free floating barrel and all that, but haven't heard of FN trumping it... certainly not to the degree that Magpul and Bushmaster did for the Masada/ACR, so I wonder... I myself am most interested in 6.8 at this point.

Merc1138
02-20-2011, 8:52 PM
Is it really any surprise that the new overweight overpriced rifle isn't super popular? If it were 1500 it'd sell like hotcakes. Also people are right about paying off the R&D cost, but it's just not better enough considering how new it is without the cost.

Uxi
02-20-2011, 8:59 PM
Yeah, ya gotta try to amortize that R&D over the long term to not scare off sales with sticker shock. Big mistake on Bushmaster's part. But seeing the ultimate price is most likely what scared Magpul away from doing it themselves...

Dhena81
02-20-2011, 9:15 PM
The best thing about the ACR is there are a few key components it shares with a regular AR mainly the trigger group and the barrel I'm not sure about the bolt. CRTguns in another thread made some good points about why the ACR is a good choice over a SCAR that sparked my interest in the platform again. It seems like bad business to just let the ACR go down the tubes if anything it would be cool if they could sell the rights to some other manufacture that could help get it the way most people want them.

pyro3k2
02-20-2011, 10:10 PM
thank Allah I got my AK and avoided all this drama.

slick_711
02-20-2011, 11:25 PM
Dude- they are the freeking same gun !!!!!!!!!!! Get a cle on reality. Bushmaster and remington is the same damn company.

Not the same company... Both companies are members of the "Freedom Group" holding company; along with Marlin, AAC, DPMS, Barnes, H&R, and a few others. The real power is Cerberus Capital Management, who owns the Freedom Group.

MrPlink
02-21-2011, 1:17 AM
thank Allah I got my AK and avoided all this drama.

for the win

problemchild
02-21-2011, 6:33 AM
ARX, really?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061228013532/starwars/images/thumb/0/0d/Storm-CHRON.jpg/319px-Storm-CHRON.jpg

Gregchico
02-21-2011, 8:12 AM
Is the ACR better than the XCR?

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/off-topic-discussion/92924d1260264700-additions-my-arsenal-xcr_odin_tan.gif

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/off-topic-discussion/92926d1260264737-additions-my-arsenal-magpul_masada_16fde.jpg

Off topic....
Just to fuel the fire, I thought the XCR was better....

Uxi
02-21-2011, 4:53 PM
I'm thinking of buying an ACR while I still can. What's the length of the enhanced with the stock folded? Is that Cali legal?

kozumasbullitt
02-21-2011, 6:23 PM
I'm thinking of buying an ACR while I still can. What's the length of the enhanced with the stock folded? Is that Cali legal?

no, it is a couple inches short.