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View Full Version : New to CCW, questions


Cobrafreak
02-13-2011, 8:22 AM
Getting my CCW card in Sacramento County monday or tuesday. I did a search and could not get a definitive answer on some basic questions.

1a. I understand that concealed means CONCEALED. What happens if wind blows up my shirt and my gun is exposed? Other than an embarrassing moment, is this a violation of CA law?

1b.I know that loaded open carry is illegal in CA. If there a difference between an accidental wind incident exposing a gun and a purposeful loaded open carry situation in the eyes of the law?

2. If someone (non lawman) spots what they think is a gun because of a bulge from a grip or the way a shirt is bunched up and "prints" and inquires if I do have a gun, do I tell the truth, lie, leave, ignore question?

3. I was told in my CCW class that wherever it is illegal to CCW, such as a Federal building like a Post Office, in addition to not having a gun on you you must also not have a holster on you as well. I have been getting conflicting information on this and need clarity. Does this also apply for loaded magazines as well?

Thanks.

NotEnufGarage
02-13-2011, 8:31 AM
As for questions 1 and 2, I would say it's up to you to wear appropriate attire so that none of the above situations occur. Question 3, I have no idea about that.

If you're really worried about how the concealed pistol will impact how your shirt looks, go for an ankle holster.

HowardW56
02-13-2011, 8:31 AM
Concealed means just that... You should avoid exposure or printing.

That does not mean that a single incident of your seatbelt lifting your shirt as you get out of your car and exposing your weapon will bring the wrath of the sheriff crashing down on you. I would expect that multiple incidents would, and that you would be branded as being careless.

NoJoke
02-13-2011, 8:37 AM
2. If someone (non lawman) spots what they think is a gun because of a bulge from a grip or the way a shirt is bunched up and "prints" and inquires if I do have a gun, do I tell the truth, lie, leave, ignore question?.

I'm very interested in the reply to this question.

I was buying ammo at Walmart and some yahoo starts blurting out "he has a gun" ....I mean WOW! (and I didn't even have a gun)!

Chris J
02-13-2011, 8:37 AM
Disclaimer: I don't have a CCW, so I'm talking through my hat. But I'll chime in on #2 --

It would depend on who asked, but I would ignore the question if possible. If not possible to ignore, I'd show the person my CCW permit as an answer, the go about my business.

SixPointEight
02-13-2011, 8:40 AM
#2) Are they leo? Don't say anything. Avoid or lie. Everyday people don't need/deserve to know. Wear better clothes.

Fjold
02-13-2011, 8:48 AM
1a and 1b - there is no law about accidental exposure of a CCW weapon.

2 - Entirely up to you. I had a sales clerk run into me one time and accidently grab my gun though my shirt, she apologized for running into me and grabbing my gun (which she recognized). I just helped her up and went about my business.

3 - I have never heard of any holster restrictions. I would call or email my instructor and asked him for the federal code for this.

greg36f
02-13-2011, 8:54 AM
In 20 years of CCW, exactly ONE (1) person has seen my weapon (at least that I know of). People see MUCH less than you give them credit for.

As you CCW more and more, you will learn what clothing to wear. It's a learning process. Good luck and congrats on the CCW....

SixPointEight
02-13-2011, 9:01 AM
Just noticed your in CA. If I see some random guy printing/flashing I'll tap him on the shoulder and say "hey cobrafreak, don't go whippin yer gun out in public" haha

NoahTall
02-13-2011, 9:06 AM
In 20 years of CCW, exactly ONE (1) person has seen my weapon (at least that I know of). People see MUCH less than you give them credit for.

As you CCW more and more, you will learn what clothing to wear. It's a learning process. Good luck and congrats on the CCW....

I'm only in 11 years, but it's NEVER happened to me. (Yes, at least that I know of.)

You'll be fine, it will become natural, and your attention will move on.

2. If someone (non lawman) spots what they think is a gun because of a bulge from a grip or the way a shirt is bunched up and "prints" and inquires if I do have a gun, do I tell the truth, lie, leave, ignore question?

As for this one, adopt a tactical scowl that you're comfortable with, and no one will come talk to you. :D

hoffmang
02-13-2011, 9:45 AM
If your firearm gets exposed inadvertently and you think you've frightened someone, call 911 and explain that you're a permit holder and you're concerned that someone became frightened. Give them your name and number and where you can be found if someone calls. Side note - this is very unlikely to happen.

There is absolutely no restriction on wearing a holster into a post office. Just don't have ammunition or a firearm. Heck, I did that last week.

-Gene

HowardW56
02-13-2011, 9:54 AM
If your firearm gets exposed inadvertently and you think you've frightened someone, call 911 and explain that you're a permit holder and you're concerned that someone became frightened. Give them your name and number and where you can be found if someone calls. Side note - this is very unlikely to happen.

There is absolutely no restriction on wearing a holster into a post office. Just don't have ammunition or a firearm. Heck, I did that last week.

-Gene

Gene you must be sleeping in these days, I expected you chime in much earlier....

pepsi2451
02-13-2011, 1:36 PM
1. I would think as long as you are not brandishing it you should be fine legally. It may be grounds for the sheriff to yank your permit but I doubt that would happen the first time, I guess it depends on your sheriff though. I think they chances of anyone noticing and caring enough to report it are extremely low. I wouldn't worry about it unless someone pulls out their cell phone and calls 911.

2. Depends on the person but I would probably just say "its ok I have a permit."

3. No law against having a holster but I wouldn't try to wear one into the security area at an airport or anything.

Just my 2 cents.

Fish
02-13-2011, 2:54 PM
Getting my CCW card in Sacramento County monday or tuesday.


First, Congratulations! As an old boss of mine used to like to tell people who'd just been promoted, "Welcome to your new level of responsibility. You will find that everyone's expectations of you are higher now..."

I'm going to take a stab at your questions. Please keep in mind that nothing you read on this forum is legal advice, and in particular that I am not an attorney. There are those here who are, I hope they will correct me if I am mistaken.



1a. I understand that concealed means CONCEALED. What happens if wind blows up my shirt and my gun is exposed? Other than an embarrassing moment, is this a violation of CA law?


I'm pretty darn sure is not. There is a law against brandishing (PC 417), but it prohibits drawing or exhibiting the firearm in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, and an inadvertent reveal clearly doesn't qualify.



1b.I know that loaded open carry is illegal in CA. If there a difference between an accidental wind incident exposing a gun and a purposeful loaded open carry situation in the eyes of the law?


I believe the answer to this is no as well.

While this would be a very bad idea for several reasons, as far as I know the holder of a license issued pursuant to PC 12050 (usually known as a concealed carry permit) is breaking no law if they walk around with their loaded firearm displayed openly, as long as they are not brandishing it. The law that prohibits walking around in public with a loaded gun is PC 12031. PC 12031(b)(6) exempts 12050 licensees, which is why it's legal for you to carry a loaded gun around, regardless of whether or not it's concealed. I know of no other general prohibition of carrying a loaded gun around in public. (There are other "specific place" prohibitions, such as so-called "gun-free school zones", most but not all of which also have exemptions for CCW holders.) Others, please correct me if there is a prohibition of which I am unaware.

I should reiterate that, regardless of the legality of this, you really, really should not LOC with your CCW. You'll freak people out, quite possibly end up staring down the barrel of a police officer's service pistol, and very likely get your CCW revoked. But AFAIK it is legal.


2. If someone (non lawman) spots what they think is a gun because of a bulge from a grip or the way a shirt is bunched up and "prints" and inquires if I do have a gun, do I tell the truth, lie, leave, ignore question?


You have no legal obligation to tell them, or even to acknowledge their presence. What you do is your personal choice. However, possibly best to have made that decision in advance -- you're much less likely to have a bad experience if your response is non-threatening and delivered confidently, as if it's the most normal thing in the world. (Because it should be... but I digress.)


3. I was told in my CCW class that wherever it is illegal to CCW, such as a Federal building like a Post Office, in addition to not having a gun on you you must also not have a holster on you as well. I have been getting conflicting information on this and need clarity. Does this also apply for loaded magazines as well?


I know from my own CCW class that the fact your CCW instructor says it doesn't automatically make it true. These laws are complicated and there's more misinformation than truth out there. I've got a pretty good guess as to the answer to this one... but I see Gene has already weighed in, and he's about as gold-plated an authority on this stuff as it gets.

mej16489
02-13-2011, 4:15 PM
While this would be a very bad idea for several reasons, as far as I know the holder of a license issued pursuant to PC 12050 (usually known as a concealed carry permit) is breaking no law if they walk around with their loaded firearm displayed openly, as long as they are not brandishing it. The law that prohibits walking around in public with a loaded gun is PC 12031. PC 12031(b)(6) exempts 12050 licensees, which is why it's legal for you to carry a loaded gun around, regardless of whether or not it's concealed.
...
I should reiterate that, regardless of the legality of this, you really, really should not LOC with your CCW. You'll freak people out, quite possibly end up staring down the barrel of a police officer's service pistol, and very likely get your CCW revoked. But AFAIK it is legal.


As of late 2009 this it is no longer legal to carry Loaded and exposed on a CCW. PC 12031 was reworded and slipped through under the radar. It changed the 12050 exemption for carrying 'as issued'

However, no worries about accidental exposure - there are loads of cases establishing that 'partially concealed' = 'concealed'

hoffmang
02-13-2011, 8:56 PM
Gene you must be sleeping in these days, I expected you chime in much earlier....

Busted perfectly I might add.

-Gene

U2BassAce
02-13-2011, 9:21 PM
In general do your part to follow (concealed means concealed).

If you screw up, which should be close to never, take comfort that 99% of the time people are in their own little world and even then, they will probably assume you are Cop. Especially if your firearm is holstered.

Cobrafreak
02-14-2011, 5:15 AM
Just noticed your in CA. If I see some random guy printing/flashing I'll tap him on the shoulder and say "hey cobrafreak, don't go whippin yer gun out in public" haha

Lol! I will do my best to no be that "Random Guy". :)

Fish
02-14-2011, 7:31 AM
As of late 2009 this it is no longer legal to carry Loaded and exposed on a CCW. PC 12031 was reworded and slipped through under the radar. It changed the 12050 exemption for carrying 'as issued'


Hmm, I can't find that in any of the versions of 12031 I looked at (or else I'm just not reading it correctly). Can you point me at the wording or info on the bill that was passed to change it?

J.D.Allen
02-14-2011, 8:47 AM
IIRC, even partially concealed means "concealed". Nes pas?

not-fishing
02-14-2011, 9:01 AM
Also I noticed no one mentioned that because your one of the blessed/determined few

Carry as often as you can.

Those who have CCW's now are on the forefront of this civil rights fight and to change the "Hearts and Minds" of California's independent voters.

N6ATF
02-14-2011, 9:43 AM
Even though none of CA's independent voters should ever see that those have CCWs.

dantodd
02-14-2011, 9:53 AM
IIRC, even partially concealed means "concealed". Nes pas?

Legally, yes. If a sheriff thinks you are carrying in a reckless manner (e.g. Excessive printing, exposing firearm etc.) He coils decide that you are not of adequate "good moral character" and revoke you permit. I am not aware of this happening but is within the sheriff's discretion.

Sent via tapatalk on my Samsung Vibrant.

JimSar
02-14-2011, 10:28 AM
I find it amazing that a person who sees a "bulge" that looks like a gun might call 911. What brainwashing do these folks go through? Speaking for myself, my initial reaction would be that this person is authorized to carry, eg undercover or off duty LEO, or CCW permit holder. I guess by "dressing appropriately" it also means not only for concealment, but also to project the image that you're not a bad guy (or gal). The prevalence of cell phone holsters of varying shapes and sizes might help calm some people, I think.

Speaking of stereotypes, a couple of weeks ago a federal special agent asked for a meeting regarding a former tenant of mine who is under investigation. I was on the road when he called, so we arranged to meet at a Starbucks. I asked how he looks so I'd recognize him, he said "I'm wearing a brown suit and look like a cop". Sure enough, he has Gene's haircut :) , had an authoritative demeanor, and carried a portable police radio that squelched once before he turned it down. If someone like him prints, I don't think anyone will panic and call 911.

mej16489
02-14-2011, 1:00 PM
Hmm, I can't find that in any of the versions of 12031 I looked at (or else I'm just not reading it correctly). Can you point me at the wording or info on the bill that was passed to change it?

The words "who are" were replaced with "as"

See the previous discussion here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=258979

Current:
12031
...
(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:
...
(6) The carrying of handguns by persons as authorized pursuant to
Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of
Part 4.


VS
OLD:

12031
...
(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:
...
(6) The carrying of handguns by persons who are authorized pursuant to
Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of
Part 4.

not-fishing
02-14-2011, 1:10 PM
Speaking of stereotypes, a couple of weeks ago a federal special agent asked for a meeting regarding a former tenant of mine who is under investigation. I was on the road when he called, so we arranged to meet at a Starbucks. I asked how he looks so I'd recognize him, he said "I'm wearing a brown suit and look like a cop". Sure enough, he has Gene's haircut :) , had an authoritative demeanor, and carried a portable police radio that squelched once before he turned it down. If someone like him prints, I don't think anyone will panic and call 911.

So a bald, 55+, fella with pilots glasses yes the McArther style, sportcoat and slacks is stereotype enough? :D

Or do I have to wear a tie and loose that 25 lbs I've been meaning to drop from my 190 lb frame?

How not to be seen

HowardW56
02-14-2011, 1:38 PM
Busted perfectly I might add.

-Gene


:sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:

dantodd
02-14-2011, 1:50 PM
So a bald, 55+, fella with pilots glasses yes the McArther style, sportcoat and slacks is stereotype enough? :D

Or do I have to wear a tie and loose that 25 lbs I've been meaning to drop from my 190 lb frame?

How not to be seen


Don't bother losing the weight.


Sent via tapatalk on my Samsung Vibrant.