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View Full Version : No more 1911s in Cali???


thenaz11c
02-12-2011, 7:24 PM
Hello all. I have been hearing alot of people in my area freaking out and saying that soon their will be no more new 1911s for sale in California. Word is their is a new provision in the safe handgun requirements mandating magazine disconnects that will be taking effect soon. And none of the major 1911 manufacturers are going to install them on their pistols due to costs and difficulty of redoing the design.

Now most of what I have been hearing sounds like FUD, but it has been going around long enough and from enough places that I have decided to check it out. So just wondering if anyone else is hearing this rumor as well?

My375hp302
02-12-2011, 7:30 PM
Heard the same thing about Glocks, the new ones were just different enough to be considered a new model and because of the lack of a mag disconnect they can not pass. If these things are true it will be the undoing of the so called list becasue it will get to a point where there are not very many options available to CA handgun buyers.

hoffmang
02-12-2011, 7:33 PM
The issue is that there will be no new models added. Models already on the list will remain available for sale.

-Gene

Librarian
02-12-2011, 7:34 PM
Sigh.

No.

At least, if you mean that NIB 1911-type handguns will disappear.

It's true that a new model handgun not already on the Roster cannot be added to the roster without a loaded chamber indicator and a magazine disconnect.

But everything legal to buy at your local gun store will remain legal so long as the manufacturer continues to pay the annual $200 registration fee for each model.

See the Wiki article on the Roster: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List

para38super
02-12-2011, 7:35 PM
This partly true. No more 1911s can be added, but most manufacturers are going to continue to sell there current models just for California.

yellowfin
02-12-2011, 7:39 PM
All of this all mattering only while the Pena case hasn't been put into effect yet.

glockman19
02-12-2011, 7:43 PM
Can a single shot conversion work on a 1911?
When will CGF challenge the roster?

wildhawker
02-12-2011, 7:49 PM
Glockman, yes, you can single shot a 1911.

We filed a Roster case 2 years ago. It's currently held pending the Nordyke case.

nick
02-12-2011, 7:51 PM
Can a single shot conversion work on a 1911?
When will CGF challenge the roster?

Yes.
It's already doing this.

Librarian
02-12-2011, 7:55 PM
Can a single shot conversion work on a 1911?
When will CGF challenge the roster?

Glockman, yes, you can single shot a 1911.

We filed a Roster case 2 years ago. It's currently held pending the Nordyke case.

Indeed - see the Wiki for the list and current info of the cases affecting guns in CA at http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Litigation_Past_and_Present - the Roster case is Pena v. Cid (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v._Cid)

Bhobbs
02-12-2011, 8:03 PM
Indeed - see the Wiki for the list and current info of the cases affecting guns in CA at http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Litigation_Past_and_Present - the Roster case is Pena v. Cid (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v._Cid)

Why was Pena stayed for the Nordyke ruling?

wildhawker
02-12-2011, 8:55 PM
Why was Pena stayed for the Nordyke ruling?

It was held because the decision in Nordyke (at the Ninth Circuit, a higher court) could very well directly bear on the law at bench in Peņa (and conveniently stalls the case). Or, it might not. In any case, expect Peņa to re-start shortly following the Nordyke decision.

Window_Seat
02-12-2011, 9:43 PM
As the way I understand it, Police Dept's will refuse flat out to use anything with a MD, yeah? This is hard proof that nanny state government is doing everything they can to make sure we are defenseless against criminal thugs.

Erik.

sevensix2x51
02-12-2011, 9:53 PM
As the way I understand it, Police Dept's will refuse flat out to use anything with a MD, yeah? This is hard proof that mommy USSR government is doing everything they can to make sure we are defenseless against criminal thugs.

Erik.

CHP uses the S&W 4006, with mag disconnect. or at least they did a few years ago... fwiw. :shrug:

Lrchops
02-12-2011, 10:01 PM
The Government spends a lot of time on stealing our gun rights and making gun ownership difficult, yet liberal hollywood is blessed with producing violent movies depicting the use of assault weapons and death. The video companies are allowed to produce violent video games for kids. Liberal judges are constantly releasing violent felony offenders from prison. People are dying daily from heart disease and cancer. Lets protect the endangered guppies and cut off water supply to farmers. Lets rape the honest tax payer. Lets restrict thier guns so the armed criminals don't get hurt.

IF CALIFORNIA would mandate that all taxi cab drivers, liquor store owners, bank employees, and so on,,,,,cary loaded assault weapons, there would be a dramatic drop in the crime rate.

Legasat
02-12-2011, 10:08 PM
Lunacy....pure lunacy!!

IrishPirate
02-12-2011, 10:15 PM
I think John Moses Browning just rolled over in his grave.....

Hopefully Nordyke won't need to go to SCOTUS, and hopefully Pena will be settled Two Weeks after Nordyke. It's getting to be a bit frustrating having to explain to people i know that these cases will nullify most of the major gun rights issues in CA, and then having them say..."Well when is that gonna happen?" and having to explain to them the phsyics of the Two Weeks Principle.

G60
02-12-2011, 10:17 PM
H Word is their is a new provision in the safe handgun requirements mandating magazine disconnects that will be taking effect soon.

soon as in January 1, 2006.

oni.dori
02-12-2011, 11:08 PM
Wait, isn't a mag disconnect the same as a magazine release button, or am I misinformed on my jargon?

Window_Seat
02-12-2011, 11:13 PM
Wait, isn't a mag disconnect the same as a magazine release button, or am I misinformed on my jargon?

... magazine disconnects often prevent magazines from falling free during reloads, and render a person defenseless if they cannot insert a magazine fast enough during a reload. No police department that I know of would use a pistol that has a magazine disconnect.

http://leftcoastconservative.blogspot.com/

elSquid
02-13-2011, 12:16 AM
As the way I understand it, Police Dept's will refuse flat out to use anything with a MD, yeah?

Nope. Various S&W autos have had mag disconnects for years. In a police context, the advantage of having a disconnect is that if an officer starts to lose control of his firearm in a struggle, he can hit the mag release, dump the mag, and then go for his backup.

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Operations-and-Tactics/Are-Safeties-Really-Safer--Pt-4/3$49283

Mag disconnects may be useful in certain situations. Of course, it's best if we can all make that decison for ourselves, and not have it imposed upon us.

-- Michael

Librarian
02-13-2011, 9:37 AM
Wait, isn't a mag disconnect the same as a magazine release button, or am I misinformed on my jargon?

Got your jargon wrong. A magazine disconnect prevents the gun from firing
after you have used the magazine release button to remove the magazine.

socal2310
02-13-2011, 6:03 PM
Magazine disconnects are standard equipment in several models that are popular even in free states. The good news is, it isn't illegal to defeat a safety device and in most cases, it is a fairly simple matter to do so.

Ryan

DougJ
02-13-2011, 6:07 PM
soon as in January 1, 2006.

:rofl2:

The Shadow
02-13-2011, 6:30 PM
Glockman, yes, you can single shot a 1911.

We filed a Roster case 2 years ago. It's currently held pending the Nordyke case.

So why is Nordyke being stalled ? Is this a planned stall by Don Kilmer ? Or is there something else going on ?

Librarian
02-13-2011, 7:06 PM
So why is Nordyke being stalled ? Is this a planned stall by Don Kilmer ? Or is there something else going on ?
We have this wiki-thingy where we keep notes on cases. See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Nordyke_v._King#Status

The Shadow
02-14-2011, 7:10 AM
We have this wiki-thingy where we keep notes on cases. See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Nordyke_v._King#Status

Okay, so according to the wiki-thingy, it says:

"We are waiting for a ruling from the 3-judge panel. There is no set "date" for the opinion to be released.

The opinion will probably be published sometime in Q1 of 2011."

So can we expect a decision around the end of March ?

Librarian
02-14-2011, 10:59 AM
Okay, so according to the wiki-thingy, it says:

"We are waiting for a ruling from the 3-judge panel. There is no set "date" for the opinion to be released.

The opinion will probably be published sometime in Q1 of 2011."

So can we expect a decision around the end of March ?

That is the latest information available.

Courts, as I often must remind, do not run on 'internet time'; it's more like 'horse and buggy' time.

The Shadow
02-14-2011, 11:20 AM
That is the latest information available.

Courts, as I often must remind, do not run on 'internet time'; it's more like 'horse and buggy' time.

I'm just guessing, but Q1 is the first quarter of 2011. Is that correct ? If that's the case, then it would seem that the decision should come out sometime before April. Or is that too optimistic ?

N6ATF
02-14-2011, 11:29 AM
Yes. Any civil gun rights movement that could possibly be in our favor will be delayed beyond predicted timelines, hence "two weeks!". Justice delayed=justice denied, more victims.

bruss01
02-14-2011, 12:52 PM
The magazine disconnect is NOT the same as the magazine release.

(for those who were asking)

What a magazine disconnect does is it prevents the gun from being fired when there is no magazine in the gun. This came about as a safety feature requirement after several cases of people ejecting the magazine from a handgun and therefore believing it to be "unloaded" even though there was a round still chambered - and subsequently having an ND where somebody got hurt/killed. You can't fix stupid, as Ron White famously says, but they keep trying anyway. The mag disconnect prevents "accidents" of this kind from happening by disabling the gun while the magazine is removed.

ke6guj
02-14-2011, 1:11 PM
I'm just guessing, but Q1 is the first quarter of 2011. Is that correct ? If that's the case, then it would seem that the decision should come out sometime before April. Or is that too optimistic ?Yes, Q1 means first quarter, Jan 1 - Mar 31, but as mentioned, that is just an estimate on when we think they will announce the ruling. There is no time limit that the court has for this, and it could be into Q2 or later that the ruling is made. There is a DC ruling that we have been waiting on for around a year now, with no idea when it will come out.

The Shadow
02-14-2011, 1:25 PM
Yes, Q1 means first quarter, Jan 1 - Mar 31, but as mentioned, that is just an estimate on when we think they will announce the ruling. There is no time limit that the court has for this, and it could be into Q2 or later that the ruling is made. There is a DC ruling that we have been waiting on for around a year now, with no idea when it will come out.

Any idea what the point to the delays are ? In other words, is there some legitimate judicial reasoning for delaying a decision ?

uyoga
02-14-2011, 1:28 PM
Okay, so according to the wiki-thingy, it says:

"We are waiting for a ruling from the 3-judge panel. There is no set "date" for the opinion to be released.

The opinion will probably be published sometime in Q1 of 2011."

So can we expect a decision around the end of March ?

. . . . .P R O B A B L Y . . . .

Librarian
02-14-2011, 1:42 PM
Any idea what the point to the delays are ? In other words, is there some legitimate judicial reasoning for delaying a decision ?

Evidently the judges believe there is, but since they are not sharing, and there is no way to compel either an answer to "why" or the release of the opinion, we don't get to know.

The only possible counsel is 'have patience'.

The Shadow
02-14-2011, 2:21 PM
Evidently the judges believe there is, but since they are not sharing, and there is no way to compel either an answer to "why" or the release of the opinion, we don't get to know.

The only possible counsel is 'have patience'.

I have plenty of patience. It's more curiosity than patience that prompts me to ask questions.

Wherryj
02-14-2011, 4:14 PM
The issue is that there will be no new models added. Models already on the list will remain available for sale.

-Gene

Because everyone knows that the list is about "safety". Isn't it better to keep only the "old and outdated" versions currently on the list, rather than allowing the "new and improved" versions to be added? Doesn't that just scream safety?

I suspect that this will just help to play into the nefarious plans of good people like yourself...