PDA

View Full Version : can someone explain CA long gun registration


Chadster
02-10-2011, 9:16 PM
Okay, in a previous thread of mine the issue of long gun registration came up. I was told California has no registration for long guns. Does that mean there is no database for who owns a shotgun or a deer rifle ?
For instance, if I left my Remington 30-06 out in the street and the police found it, there is no way for them to trace the serial number back to me and return it to me ?

Librarian
02-10-2011, 9:18 PM
That's correct.

The serial number, make and model are NOT reported to CA DOJ on the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS).

Helpful_Cub
02-10-2011, 9:21 PM
Okay, in a previous thread of mine the issue of long gun registration came up. I was told California has no registration for long guns. Does that mean there is no database for who owns a shotgun or a deer rifle ?
For instance, if I left my Remington 30-06 out in the street and the police found it, there is no way for them to trace the serial number back to me and return it to me ?

Directly, there is no way for them to know. Indirectly, a gun-shop somewhere has a record of the transaction. That is unless it was smuggled in or built.

SnakePlissken
02-10-2011, 9:23 PM
Should I be looking for a 30-06 somewhere..??? :)

tenpercentfirearms
02-10-2011, 9:28 PM
When you report it stolen by serial number, when the cops find it, they will run the serial number, see you filed a stolen firearm report, contact you, verify, and return it.

Someone stole a crate of unissued Winchester Garands still in the wrap from me, but I didn't report them because I didn't want them to be on the grid.

mdimeo
02-10-2011, 10:29 PM
I think I heard somewhere that if you're the first owner, they can generally track it from the manufacturer, to distributor, to FFL, to 4473, to you. Lots of opportunities for things to get lost along the way, though.

Oceanbob
02-10-2011, 10:34 PM
I think I heard somewhere that if you're the first owner, they can generally track it from the manufacturer, to distributor, to FFL, to 4473, to you. Lots of opportunities for things to get lost along the way, though.

Not really.

Ron-Solo
02-10-2011, 10:59 PM
I think I heard somewhere that if you're the first owner, they can generally track it from the manufacturer, to distributor, to FFL, to 4473, to you. Lots of opportunities for things to get lost along the way, though.

It's a complicated process, but it can be done.

Everyone should record the serial numbers of all their firearms and keep them separate from the gun in case the gun is stolen. Don't leave it to someone else.

dantodd
02-10-2011, 11:10 PM
Someone stole a crate of unissued Winchester Garands still in the wrap from me, but I didn't report them because I didn't want them to be on the grid.

I am sure you received them legally so why is it, in your mind, better to have the firearms "off the grid" in the hands of a thief?

CaliforniaLiberal
02-11-2011, 12:59 AM
I am sure you received them legally so why is it, in your mind, better to have the firearms "off the grid" in the hands of a thief?


Psst. Psst. Hey dantodd. He's pulling your leg. A crate of unissued Garands in original packing is like a unicorn with two horns.:cool2:

NotEnufGarage
02-11-2011, 1:20 AM
Psst. Psst. Hey dantodd. He's pulling your leg. A crate of unissued Garands in original packing is like a unicorn with two horns.:cool2:

Me want!

NorCalRedneck
02-11-2011, 1:31 AM
Sort of a thread hi-jack but when you buy an AR15 lower is it sold as a handgun or a long gun? I know you have to be 21 to buy one because it can be made into a handgun but what is it recorded as?

tozan
02-11-2011, 1:46 AM
For instance, if I left my Remington 30-06 out in the street and the police found it, there is no way for them to trace the serial number back to me and return it to me ?

If you leave your Remington out on the street you don't deserve to get it back...:43: But the police report of it being stolen or missing might get it back for you... Although I have serious doubts anyone will check and you most likely will never see it again anyway. At least that has been my personal experience. A stolen gun ended up for sale in a local gun shop after the sheriff dept sold it to the shop...

Anchors
02-11-2011, 1:49 AM
When you report it stolen by serial number, when the cops find it, they will run the serial number, see you filed a stolen firearm report, contact you, verify, and return it.

Someone stole a crate of unissued Winchester Garands still in the wrap from me, but I didn't report them because I didn't want them to be on the grid.

I thought you found out professionalcoyotehunter's Aunt stole them when you left them in Nevada?

It's a complicated process, but it can be done.

Everyone should record the serial numbers of all their firearms and keep them separate from the gun in case the gun is stolen. Don't leave it to someone else.

I agree!

tenpercentfirearms
02-11-2011, 5:49 AM
Also if you ever do have a firearm stolen, most modern FFLs can pull your serial number data up with little effort. If you ever bought a gun from me, I can e-mail you all the data in a few minutes time.

That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.

rromeo
02-11-2011, 5:56 AM
Is the serial number recorded on the 4473 during a PPT?

halifax
02-11-2011, 5:57 AM
Yes

CSACANNONEER
02-11-2011, 6:00 AM
Is the serial number recorded on the 4473 during a PPT?

But, it's not on anything that goes to the state of California.

If someone wants their long gun registered, they can always fill out a voluntary registration form and send it, along with $19 to Ca DOJ. This would be one way to help "prove" the gun is your if it get's stolen. But, do you really want to give the state more info on you and more money?

DougJ
02-11-2011, 6:02 AM
Also if you ever do have a firearm stolen, most modern FFLs can pull your serial number data up with little effort. If you ever bought a gun from me, I can e-mail you all the data in a few minutes time.

That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.

LOL.





They're coming!






In







:twoweeks:

Wherryj
02-11-2011, 7:36 AM
[QUOTE=tenpercentfirearms;5794659]Also if you ever do have a firearm stolen, most modern FFLs can pull your serial number data up with little effort. If you ever bought a gun from me, I can e-mail you all the data in a few minutes time.

That is why when the commies come, I'm certain that there will be a horrible, but unforseen, accident involving my shop.

Fixed it for you.

ke6guj
02-11-2011, 8:56 AM
That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu212/ke6guj/red_dawn_ObtainForm4473.png

Mssr. Eleganté
02-11-2011, 7:54 PM
That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.

Ask Soldier415 to come down and "pre-wire" your whole shop. :D

Mimi_T
02-12-2011, 12:36 AM
This thread made me wonder something.

A family member wants to give me an M4 (it isn't an AW, just a current normal long gun).
We had originally thought we'd have to do a transfer with paperwork and send in $19, but now it occurs to me that maybe we're wrong and that we don't need to do anything?
Is the gun already mine without need to send in anything since there's no registration for long guns?

If I understood it well, the registration for long guns is voluntary and completely optional, and there's no database telling who owns what, so family and friends could freely give each other long guns without bothering with paying $19 each time or sending in paperwork?

Or do gifts need to go through FFLs by PPT and 10 days wait + registration?

ke6guj
02-12-2011, 12:49 AM
This thread made me wonder something.

A family member wants to give me an M4 (it isn't an AW, just a current normal long gun).
We had originally thought we'd have to do a transfer with paperwork and send in $19, but now it occurs to me that maybe we're wrong and that we don't need to do anything?
Is the gun already mine without need to send in anything since there's no registration for long guns?if that immediate family member is a grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, and is also a CA-resident, they could just give you a long gun and you wouldn't need to do anything except say "thank you".

If they aren't your grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, you can't do a paperless transfer, you must use a CA dealer to do the DROS.

If I understood it well, the registration for long guns is voluntary and completely optional, and there's no database telling who owns what, so family and friends could freely give each other long guns without bothering with paying $19 each time or sending in paperwork?correct, registration is voluntary, but the requirement that you DROS any >50-year old long gun is not voluntary. DROS does not equal registration when it is a long gun.

Or do gifts need to go through FFLs by PPT and 10 days wait + registration?they must be PPT DROSed with the 10-day wait (unless from immediate in-state family), but there is no registration.

TRICKSTER
02-12-2011, 12:53 AM
Someone stole a crate of unissued Winchester Garands still in the wrap from me, but I didn't report them because I didn't want them to be on the grid.


I think I saw those hidden in a barn in Nevada.:rolleyes:

Mimi_T
02-12-2011, 12:56 AM
if that immediate family member is a grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, and is also a CA-resident, they could just give you a long gun and you wouldn't need to do anything except say "thank you".

If they aren't your grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, you can't do a paperless transfer, you must use a CA dealer to do the DROS.


Parents-in-law count as parents, or only the person's actual (biological) parents?

And if not, can the parents-in-law give a gun to my husband (their son) and in turn he gives it to me?
Or would the DROS be needed between husband and wife too? (It sounds like it's the case, but I thought I'd ask just in case...)

It just seems so complicated to have to go to a shop and DROS it, pay for the whole thing and all that just to give a gun to a close family member. If CA laws were simpler it would be so nice! :(

ke6guj
02-12-2011, 1:07 AM
Parents-in-law count as parents, or only the person's actual (biological) parents?the law says parent, not parent-in-law or step-parent.

And if not, can the parents-in-law give a gun to my husband (their son) yes, your husband's parents can give him a long gun, with no paperwork needed.

and in turn he gives it to me? Or would the DROS be needed between husband and wife too? (It sounds like it's the case, but I thought I'd ask just in case...)your husband can give you a long gun, with no paperwork needed. That would be an operation-of-law, which requires no paperwork. But staging two transfers in order to avoid a DROS is a crime, so be careful there.

It just seems so complicated to have to go to a shop and DROS it, pay for the whole thing and all that just to give a gun to a close family member. If CA laws were simpler it would be so nice! :(often, it is easier to just give the recipient a gift certificate for the gun and send them down to the gun shop to get the gun that way.

SanPedroShooter
02-12-2011, 6:24 AM
if that immediate family member is a grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, and is also a CA-resident, they could just give you a long gun and you wouldn't need to do anything except say "thank you".

If they aren't your grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, you can't do a paperless transfer, you must use a CA dealer to do the DROS.

correct, registration is voluntary, but the requirement that you DROS any >50-year old long gun is not voluntary. DROS does not equal registration when it is a long gun.

they must be PPT DROSed with the 10-day wait (unless from immediate in-state family), but there is no registration.

I am not suggsting anyone break the law, but how would they know?
Assuming you dont tell everyone on the internetz, how could the DOJ tell if someone transfers a long with out a DROS?
If the dros info is destoryed, they could get the orginal 4473 from the FFL that sold it to the first buyer, but if he says "I sold it" How could it be proved that he transfered it legaly, assuming the DROS from said transfer is not saved.
I read somewhere that only 20% of California gun owners at any given time are in compliance with the law. I imagine this is one that gets broken a lot.

rromeo
02-12-2011, 6:30 AM
They wouldn't, but as gun owners, we strive to be law obeying citizens.

SanPedroShooter
02-12-2011, 6:34 AM
They wouldn't, but as gun owners, we strive to be law obeying citizens.

I agree, I am just trying to get the details straight in my mind.

dantodd
02-12-2011, 7:44 AM
I agree, I am just trying to get the details straight in my mind.

The investigators would ask where you did the ppt and then go examine the paperwork.

Sent via tapatalk on my Samsung Vibrant.

12voltguy
02-12-2011, 9:32 AM
The investigators would ask where you did the ppt and then go examine the paperwork.

Sent via tapatalk on my Samsung Vibrant.

now there are magic investigators???
what are they investigating?

jamesob
02-12-2011, 9:36 AM
I think I saw those hidden in a barn in Nevada.:rolleyes:

i heard about them.

Librarian
02-12-2011, 10:11 AM
I agree, I am just trying to get the details straight in my mind.

Here's an easy method to approach California's gun laws.

If it makes sense, that's not the California Way.
If it's easy, that's probably not the California Way.

Your other option is to spend a month or so reading the Wiki and the corresponding Penal Code (and bits of other Codes) and the opinions issues by several levels of courts. Good for the soul but a little hard on both the free time and the temper.

dantodd
02-12-2011, 11:28 AM
now there are magic investigators???
what are they investigating?

I'm not sure I understand your question. I was responding to this:

how could the DOJ tell if someone transfers a long with out a DROS?
If the dros info is destoryed, they could get the orginal 4473 from the FFL that sold it to the first buyer, but if he says "I sold it" How could it be proved that he transfered it legaly, assuming the DROS from said transfer is not saved.



Sent via tapatalk on my Samsung Vibrant.

Sent via tapatalk on my Samsung Vibrant.

Cokebottle
02-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Directly, there is no way for them to know. Indirectly, a gun-shop somewhere has a record of the transaction. That is unless it was smuggled in or built.
Yup.

If you were the gun's first owner, when the police find it, they could contact the manufacturer, who could tell them what dealer it shipped to, who could then go through their 4473 file to find who the buyer was.

If it's an older gun that has passed through 5 owners, it may still be possible to trace, but it would be extremely difficult, and if one person says "Got a warrant?" then the chain is broken.

Best way is when it is stolen and you report it, give the PD the serial number and they can go directly from there, but there will be no effort to trace the history to confirm that you are the owner unless they are suspicious of you.

Mimi_T
02-14-2011, 8:35 AM
Thank you so much for the reply! It was very informative!

yes, your husband's parents can give him a long gun, with no paperwork needed.

your husband can give you a long gun, with no paperwork needed. That would be an operation-of-law, which requires no paperwork. But staging two transfers in order to avoid a DROS is a crime, so be careful there.


Oh, no worries there. We'd never want to commit a crime or anything like that. I just asked because I figured that if they give the gun to my husband instead, I can still use it when we go to the range, so there's no need for them to give it to me and pay money to DROS etc.
It was also to know if we'd have to pay and do paperwork if sometime later down the line my husband decides to officially give it to me, unrelated to the first transfer and not staged or anything.
I just worded my question too briefly, but it wasn't to do anything illegal. We'd never stage two transfers to skip the DROS, we strive to be law abiding always. :)


often, it is easier to just give the recipient a gift certificate for the gun and send them down to the gun shop to get the gun that way.

Yep! :D

It's more or less what I did for this Valentine's Day. I got my husband a new gun, though of course he did the paperwork himself since the gun is for him, I just stood around and paid for his gift. :)

Cokebottle
02-14-2011, 6:59 PM
It's more or less what I did for this Valentine's Day. I got my husband a new gun, though of course he did the paperwork himself since the gun is for him, I just stood around and paid for his gift. :)
Same here. Paid from the joint account so she was the actual buyer.

BitterOldMan
02-14-2011, 7:18 PM
I find this interesting. I sold a long gun out of state to a friend via out of state FFL. I filled out the No Longer in Possession application with the long gun serial number to send to CA DOJ. The State DOJ (Kamala Harris) sent me a letter stating that there is no record of the firearm being in my possession. I triple checked the serial number and verified the serial number with the buyer. Is the state that disorganized?

ke6guj
02-14-2011, 7:22 PM
I find this interesting. I sold a long gun out of state to a friend via out of state FFL. I filled out the No Longer in Possession application with the long gun serial number to send to CA DOH. The State DOJ (Kamala Harris) sent me a letter stating that there is no record of the firearm being in my possession. I triple checked the serial number and verified the serial number with the buyer. Is the state that disorganized?

no, the state is not disorganized. Long guns aren't registered to you, so there would be no record of your ownership. As such, there is no record of that long gun for CADOJ to update.

southernsnowshoe
02-14-2011, 7:53 PM
Also if you ever do have a firearm stolen, most modern FFLs can pull your serial number data up with little effort. If you ever bought a gun from me, I can e-mail you all the data in a few minutes time.

That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.



I like your style, the only reason for Kalifornia to have the serial numbers in a database is.........confiscation.

TRICKSTER
02-17-2011, 3:02 AM
Also if you ever do have a firearm stolen, most modern FFLs can pull your serial number data up with little effort. If you ever bought a gun from me, I can e-mail you all the data in a few minutes time.

That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsqyBfHHnblRQxbOIxwHkaZ2v_sMR2J 7geANkl-HhihVqdR3mM