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View Full Version : mail order ammo in LA county! Whats the deal?


hoodrat
02-10-2011, 7:37 PM
I have purchased ammo online and had it shipped to me in LA for a long time now.

It seems that there is a lot of Bad info out there one way or the other and I'd like to settle it if possible.

I've been told " we cant send ammo to LA city" so I have it sent to a friend in Sherman oaks. Recently I asked a vendor what the deal was and they sent me this





775Patriot
Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8
iTrader: 0 / 0%

Re: Ammo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the LA question... This is where the "Except where prohibited" comes in.

We can't ship into LA. Sorry bud. If you have something that says differently please send it to me.



Mike Miller
U.S. Firearms Academy






Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodrat
Mike,





Chad,

Alright, I'm being told no to LA county. If you have a friend that lives anywhere that it is not prohibited by law we will ship it there.

Thanks,

Mike Miller
U.S Firearms Academy


Mike,
Can you reference the law or reason why? It would help me get some answers on my end.[/QUOTE]




Here you go...

Chapter 13.67 PROHIBITION ON THE SALE OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION ON COUNTY PROPERTY

13.67.010 Legislative findings.

13.67.020 Legislative intent.

13.67.030 Prohibition.

13.67.040 Definitions.

13.67.050 Exceptions.

13.67.060 Penalty.

13.67.070 Severability.


I. The ATF report proceeds to state as follows:
Firearms involved in the 314 reviewed investigations numbered more than 54,000. A large number of these firearms were sold or purchased at gun shows. More than one-third of the investigations involved more than 50 firearms, and nearly one-tenth of the investigations involved more than 250 firearms. The two largest investigations were reported to have involved up to 7,000 and 10,000 firearms, respectively. These numbers include both new and used firearms;

and
J. One of the ATF investigations took place in 1994 where the ATF recovered two 9mm firearms which were traced to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) in Whittier, California. The FFL had sold over 1,700 firearms to unlicensed purchasers over a four-year period without maintaining any records. Many of the sales occurred at swap meets in California. The firearms were then sold to gang members in Santa Ana and Long Beach, California; and
K. The ATF report also states that:
Although Brady Act background checks have been successful in preventing felons and other prohibited persons from buying firearms from FFLs, gun shows leave a major loophole in the regulation of firearms sales. Gun shows provide a large market where criminals can shop for firearms anonymously. Unlicensed sellers have no way of knowing whether they are selling to a violent felon or someone who intends to illegally traffic guns on the streets to juveniles or gangs. Further, unscrupulous gun dealers can use these free-flowing markets to hide their off-the-book sales. While most gun show sellers are honest and law-abiding, it only takes a few to transfer large numbers of firearms into dangerous hands;

and
L. At the Great Western Gun Show held at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds last April 30th--May 2nd, the State Department of Justice (DOJ) conducted a sting operation to determine if illegal gun trafficking was occurring. During this event, DOJ agents purchased several items that are not legal for sale in California, including two illegal assault weapons, five illegal machine gun conversion kits, and one illegal rocket launcher with projectile. Each of these items was purchased without the completion of a background check as required by law. The firearms purchased were delivered immediately to the agents, without regard to the 10-day waiting period that is also required by law. According to the Attorney General, the only reason agents were not able to identify more illegal gun trafficking is because they ran out of time and money. In fact, city of Pomona police arrested five additional individuals at the gun show for illegal sales; and
M. According to the ATF, on August 13, 1999, the ATF, Pomona Police Department and the State DOJ Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement (BNE) made an arrest after an individual delivered 10 Sten machine guns, and a Browning Automatic Rifle to an undercover ATF agent. Pursuant to a search of his residence, additional machine guns and machine gun kits were discovered. The selling of machine guns or the kits to manufacture machine guns is a violation of federal firearms law. The investigation began on July 10, 1999, after undercover agents met with the individual at his vendor’s table at the Great Western Gun Show, Fairplex Complex in the city of Pomona. This meeting eventually led to the delivery of six machine guns in the days following the initial negotiations; and
N. At least three of the weapons acquired or possessed by the robbers in the infamous North Hollywood shoot-out of February 28, 1997, were traced back to a gun show on county property where the robbers had purchased them. (Ord. 99-0081 1 (part), 1999.)

13.67.020 Legislative intent.
With passage of the ordinance codified in this chapter, the county seeks to ensure that its property and facilities are used in a manner consistent with promoting the health, safety, and welfare of all of its residents. The county also seeks to ensure that all gun transfers occur legally, consistent with state law, and with the requisite background checks. (Ord. 99-0081 1 (part), 1999.)

13.67.030 Prohibition.
The sale of firearms and/or ammunition on county property is prohibited. (Ord. 99-0081 1 (part), 1999.)

13.67.040 Definitions.
As used in this chapter, the words hereinafter defined are used as so defined unless it is apparent from the context that a different meaning is intended.
A. County Property. “County property” includes real property owned, leased, subleased, or otherwise assigned by the county, or real property subject to the use and control of the county. It includes real property of the county in the possession of a public or private entity under contract with the county. By way of example, it includes all public buildings and the surrounding grounds owned or leased by the county in the unincorporated and incorporated portions of the county, such as the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds in the city of Pomona.
B. Firearm. “Firearm” includes all devices described in California Penal Code Section 12001, including, but not limited to, any gun, pistol, revolver, rifle or any device, designed or modified to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion. “Firearm” does not include any instrument as referred to in Government Code Section 53071.5.
C. Ammunition. “Ammunition” is any ammunition as defined in California Penal Code Section 12316(b)(2).
D. Peace Officer. “Peace officer” is any person who is a peace officer as defined in Title 3, Part 2, Chapter 4.5 of the California Penal Code (Sections 830, et seq.).
E. Sale. A “sale” is any transaction, with or without the exchange of consideration, which transfers ownership, title, possession, or control of any firearm, or gives, loans, leases, or delivers a firearm. A “sale” includes the act of placing an order for any of the aforementioned transfers. The act of displaying a firearm shall not constitute a sale for purposes of this chapter. (Ord. 99-0081 1 (part), 1999.)

13.67.050 Exceptions.
Section 13.67.030 shall not apply to the sale of any firearm by a peace officer when on duty and the sale of such firearm is within the scope of his/her duties. In addition, said section shall not apply to: (A) either the sale of ammunition, or the rental of any firearm, for on-site recreational use, at the Whittier Narrows Trap and Skeet Range within the Whittier Narrows Regional Park; (B) the sale of shotguns, as defined in California Penal Code section 12020(c)(21), but no other firearms, at the aforementioned Whittier Narrows Trap and Skeet Range during the remaining term of that certain Lease Agreement No. 59348, originally entered into between the County of Los Angeles and Pachmayr, Limited; or (C) to the public administrator in the distribution of a private estate or to the sale of firearms by its auctioneer to fulfill its obligations under state law. (Ord. 2007-0073 1, 2007: Ord. 99-0081 1 (part), 1999.)

13.67.060 Penalty.
Every violation of this chapter shall constitute a misdemeanor. (Ord. 99-0081 1 (part), 1999.)

13.67.070 Severability.
If any provision or clause of this chapter or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held invalid, such invalidity shall not affect any other provision or application of this chapter which can be given effect without the invalid provision or application, and to this end the provisions of this chapter are declared to be severable. (Ord. 99-0081 1 (part), 1999.)



This is the whole page but, the code is bold and underlined. Look at 13.67.030 Prohibition.
(I had to delete some of it to be able to send it to you but the full text is in the links below)

Here are some links you can research:

http://search.municode.com/html/16274/index.htm

http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.d...mlegal:lamc_ca


Hope this helps you find the answers you are looking for.

Thanks,

Mike Miller
U.S. Firearms Academy "





It sounds to me like they are using a law regarding selling ammo on county fair ground property and using to cover all personal property in LA county. Which seems like an awfully broad stroke of the brush, since we all know you can buy ammo in LA county. Big 5, Turners and lots of gun stores.

Can anyone help me get the right info to these distributers?

SimpleCountryActuary
02-10-2011, 7:42 PM
Up theirs. Buy from someone else. Sportsmans Guide confuses LA City with LA County so I buy from others.

socalblue
02-10-2011, 7:46 PM
Sherman Oaks is part of the City of LA.

Yugo
02-10-2011, 7:50 PM
I order from sportsmans guide only. It is sent to sherman oaks PO box out of all places. But it is a physical address. I have just recently received 2000+rounds after 2-1-11

hoodrat
02-10-2011, 8:11 PM
Sherman Oaks is part of the City of LA.

I find that "some vendors" just dont want "Los Angeles" on the post.

If I cant get info here I will call Chuck to see what he has to say. I don't want to pull that card though if I don't have to.

Yugo
02-10-2011, 8:41 PM
The easy way to find out is go to (cheaperthandirt.com) and click on some ammo, half wey down the page there is a small area to type in a zipcode to see if they will ship to you.....I just did 91403 it said no they will not ship. so maybe the law did go in effect and they wont ship anymore. Im really glad I stocked up before this happened.

lanwarrior
02-10-2011, 8:56 PM
Is this PO Box a USPS one or something like Mailbox ETC?

Some Mailbox ETC doesn't accept ammo I think

Yugo
02-10-2011, 8:59 PM
private owned. But I think thats no longer good anyway cause like I said before when I went to cheaper than dirt they said they wont atleast there website said it.....before the ban It said it would send to 91403 not anymore.

Caladain
02-10-2011, 9:43 PM
The easy way to find out is go to (cheaperthandirt.com) and click on some ammo, half wey down the page there is a small area to type in a zipcode to see if they will ship to you.....I just did 91403 it said no they will not ship. so maybe the law did go in effect and they wont ship anymore. Im really glad I stocked up before this happened.

AB962 didn't go into effect. Drop them a line and let them know, or find out if they have another reason.

Porterhouse
02-10-2011, 10:09 PM
Sherman Oaks is in the City of Los Angeles...

GOEX FFF
02-10-2011, 11:19 PM
Law didn't go into effect. Drop them a line and let them know, or find out if they have another reason.

This isn't about AB962. There are still places like the incorporated Cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco that prohibit ammunition deliveries, way before 962.

Yugo
02-10-2011, 11:23 PM
well I dont order from cheaper cause they are not cheaper I love sportsmans they have not done me wrong so far. I did just get some ear protection that is electronicaly surpressed and when they came seems like they have been in the box for a while; the foam part was smooshed, flat, no softness....have not called them cause I only spent $19 have not even installed batts....

hoodrat
02-11-2011, 5:24 AM
Law didn't go into effect. Drop them a line and let them know, or find out if they have another reason.

They didn't quote AB962 they quoted an LA county ordinance that is on the books. I chalange the use of the ordinance.

I'm hoping for some real information from a CGF member in the know or a firearms lawyer.

Thanks for the free bump.

hoodrat
02-11-2011, 5:27 AM
This isn't about AB962. There are still places like the incorporated Cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco that prohibit ammunition deliveries, way before 962.

Thank you I was getting a headache. This threads not about AB962 or Sherman Oaks.

Caladain
02-11-2011, 8:23 AM
I was replying to Yugo, thought his previous post about "the law did go into effect" was referring to AB962.

I thought i hit "quote" but failed. Edited post to be more correct. Sorry for any confusion.
:o

Cnynrat
02-11-2011, 8:29 AM
I live in LA County and have never had a problem buying ammo online. I do have an Orange County zip which may help me stay under the radar.

My understanding is the prohibition affects the city of Los Angeles only.

Wherryj
02-11-2011, 9:14 AM
I find that "some vendors" just dont want "Los Angeles" on the post.

If I cant get info here I will call Chuck to see what he has to say. I don't want to pull that card though if I don't have to.

Well, that may be that they confuse these cities for not being part of LA. It is a bit strange that LA has these "districts" that have a different name but are considered part of the city itself.

This may mean that they just don't realize that they are sending to LA when they ship to Sherman Oaks, or that they can use the excuse, "How would I know, it says Sherman Oaks, not Los Angeles?"

Santa Clara isn't part of San Jose, South San Francisco isn't even part of San Francisco. Even in DC, it is "NW", "SW", not unique names.

MikeH1
02-11-2011, 9:16 AM
Most vendors look for a 900xx zip code, which not all of Los Angeles city areas have, I tell them I don't live in L.A., I live in Van Nuys, zip 91405. Never had a problem.

There is no prohibition on buying ammo in L.A. City, according to local PD detectives, there are restrictions, such as having to provide DL and fingerprints. Also, if you are buying online, the transaction is taking place on the vendor's web site, which is outside of the city of L.A. They have no jurisdiction on interstate commerce, that's Federal domain.

HisDivineShadow
02-11-2011, 9:28 AM
My city is on the eastern edge of LA County and I never have problems getting ammo from AIM, Copes, J&G, Midway, ammunitiontogo, or even SG, though I try not to buy much from them because of their often incorrect, and misinformed shipping policies.

lanwarrior
02-11-2011, 9:41 AM
private owned. But I think thats no longer good anyway cause like I said before when I went to cheaper than dirt they said they wont atleast there website said it.....before the ban It said it would send to 91403 not anymore.

I have been ordering from ammunitionstogo.com and shipped it to my friend's place in Pasadena, so it's seems that the issue is ONLY with LA CITY, not county.

Having said that, would you mind telling me which company do you use for the P.O. box ? Mailbox etc, UPS, etc. The ammo shipped from ammotogo has a sticker that said "Small Caliber" or something like that. I know that the UPS store near my area will NOT accept ammunition (whatever their reason is).

Porterhouse
02-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Well, that may be that they confuse these cities for not being part of LA. It is a bit strange that LA has these "districts" that have a different name but are considered part of the city itself.

This may mean that they just don't realize that they are sending to LA when they ship to Sherman Oaks, or that they can use the excuse, "How would I know, it says Sherman Oaks, not Los Angeles?"

Santa Clara isn't part of San Jose, South San Francisco isn't even part of San Francisco. Even in DC, it is "NW", "SW", not unique names.

Apples and Oranges.

There are many unincorporated areas totally surrounded by the City of LA such as: Calabasas, San Fernando, Burbank, Universal City, Culver City, Beverly Hills and many others. Those are not to be confused with incorporated ares like Sherman Oaks and a zillion other places. If the City of LA had a prohibition, shipping it to Sherman Oaks and claiming confusion would be no excuse.

lanwarrior
02-11-2011, 11:46 AM
I'd say just open a P.O. box with private company that provide real address (not P.O. box number like USPS) outside of LA city and ship it there. That's what I am planning to do...

rabagley
02-11-2011, 12:44 PM
I just checked with cheaperthandirt.com and they appear to have my zip code (90403) and city (Santa Monica, CA) properly classified. They can ship all ammo to me. I am in LA county, but obviously not LA city.

RWxtremist
02-11-2011, 12:57 PM
Interesting... checked their handgun ammo to OC, no problem shipping it. A Bayonet (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR035-7.html) appears to be a different matter.

Is there another law preventing shipment knives to CA, or is CTD's approved shipping list goofed up?

Kestryll
02-11-2011, 1:03 PM
L.A City has it own law regarding ammo purchases, you have to show ID and give a fingerprint when you buy ammo within the L.A. City limits.
This law makes buying ammo by mail pretty much impossible as no courier wants to gather ID info and fingerprints.

What makes L.A.'s law different than AB962 is that it encompasses all ammo not just handgun or rifle ammo.

Yugo
02-11-2011, 4:18 PM
I'd say just open a P.O. box with private company that provide real address (not P.O. box number like USPS) outside of LA city and ship it there. That's what I am planning to do...

Also they wont ship other things like genarators or engines to california SG that is. I could buy a 1900 watt for like $120 but they wont ship it to me. :mad::mad:

Porterhouse
02-11-2011, 4:52 PM
Also they wont ship other things like genarators or engines to california SG that is. I could buy a 1900 watt for like $120 but they wont ship it to me. :mad::mad:

Have them parcel post it to the USPS branch in San Fernando as "general delivery"

bigger hammer
02-11-2011, 6:34 PM
There are many unincorporated areas totally surrounded by the City of LA such as: Calabasas, San Fernando, Burbank, Universal City, Culver City, Beverly Hills and many others.

None of those cities, with the possible exclusion of Universal City and Calabasas, are "unincorporated." Each of them is a fully incorporated city with their own city government, council, police department, etc. They are completely separate from the City of Los Angeles. Here, in LA County (and in the rest of California I'm pretty sure) "unincorporated" means that the area is governed by the County, not the City of LA or some other city entity.

It's completely legal to ship ammunition to any of them.

Creeping Incrementalism
02-12-2011, 10:51 AM
Interesting... checked their handgun ammo to OC, no problem shipping it. A Bayonet (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR035-7.html) appears to be a different matter.

Is there another law preventing shipment knives to CA, or is CTD's approved shipping list goofed up?

CTD has for years banned many items from California that are legal to own and ship here. For example, "Assault Weapon Gear" includes items such as collapsible or adjustable stocks for AR-15s, which are 100% legal in and of themselves, and only would cause illegalities when mounted on a certain type of firearm. I sent them an email once about it and did not hear back. The restricted items got worse over the years to the point I stopped buying from them.

hoodrat
02-12-2011, 1:37 PM
I emailed Sean Brady at C.D. Michel and Associates and asked him the same question. we have had contact regaring other items and have a repore. He didn't go into detail unfortunatly but said the law they sited has nothing to do with not selling in LA city or county. But that there is a municipal code in LA city that requires a face to face purchase of ammunition but he did not site the code.

I will try and find it when I have time.

He said the law may not even be constitutional but that it has never been chalanged. I asked him to put together a proposel for researching the lagitamacy of the law so we could see what it would cost.

jpigeon
02-12-2011, 2:32 PM
I emailed Sean Brady at C.D. Michel and Associates and asked him the same question. we have had contact regaring other items and have a repore. He didn't go into detail unfortunatly but said the law they sited has nothing to do with not selling in LA city or county. But that there is a municipal code in LA city that requires a face to face purchase of ammunition but he did not site the code.

I will try and find it when I have time.

He said the law may not even be constitutional but that it has never been chalanged. I asked him to put together a proposel for researching the lagitamacy of the law so we could see what it would cost.

Sounds good bro man.

RWxtremist
02-12-2011, 7:39 PM
CTD has for years banned many items from California that are legal to own and ship here. For example, "Assault Weapon Gear" includes items such as collapsible or adjustable stocks for AR-15s, which are 100% legal in and of themselves, and only would cause illegalities when mounted on a certain type of firearm. I sent them an email once about it and did not hear back. The restricted items got worse over the years to the point I stopped buying from them.

Thanks, Creeping Incrementalism. I think I just quit buying from them as well. Can't stand "nanny" policies or companies who subscribe to them.