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View Full Version : Help with CA penal codes and carry on business property


Firemark
02-10-2011, 1:46 PM
Figured I'd tap the resource of knowledge here. In preparing a report to my companys board of directors, I need all relevant CA penal codes regarding carrying (open,concealed, loaded) on a business property that is fenced. As well as use of force and criminal trespass.

The back story is a former member of the board is being removed for running the business into the ground and appears "mentally unstable". The fear is he will return to the property to steal or vandalize in the middle of the night. Several of the owners will be providing security and round the clock surveillance and will be carrying for protection only. This will be coordinated with local police knowledge and assistance.

I could use some help with collecting all the penal codes, to prepare a written report, and I know some of you out there are PC supergeeks. Need your help.

blakdawg
02-10-2011, 2:04 PM
I'd start with Machtinger's "How To Own A Gun and Stay Out of Jail" - but if this business is bigger than a lemonade stand and these people who are planning to carry value their ability to own firearms in the future, those are questions they should be directing to an attorney and a security/threat management consultant, not a message board.

This is a little bit like asking "My brother has a weird lump in his abdomen. We think it's cancer. Can you make a list of the parts we can take out without causing too much trouble? Is it better to use a buck knife or scissors for this? Also, is there a good place to buy cheap suture material? We don't want to spend a lot on this."

dantodd
02-10-2011, 2:29 PM
Someone posted a similar issue in the past and if I remember correctly there are significant complications if you are carrying armed to protect a business and you don't have a "guard card." Carrying while at work during normal hours that you work is one thing but specifically "guarding" the shop while not doing anything else was, IIRC, the main issue.

I'm sure that someone will be in to post the pertinent PC or BPC sections.

Coded-Dude
02-10-2011, 2:35 PM
yes if you are armed to protect the business you need a guard card, if you are armed for personal protection you can carry loaded(with permission from the business owner) as long as the location is not "open to the public."

[EDIT] here it is: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=371629

Untamed1972
02-10-2011, 2:42 PM
Someone posted a similar issue in the past and if I remember correctly there are significant complications if you are carrying armed to protect a business and you don't have a "guard card." Carrying while at work during normal hours that you work is one thing but specifically "guarding" the shop while not doing anything else was, IIRC, the main issue.

I'm sure that someone will be in to post the pertinent PC or BPC sections.

A guard card is easy and cheap to obtain though. I believe you can even do it online now, but there is additional training required for being an armed security guard.

Several of the owners will be providing security

I would also think though that if you are the actual owner of the company/property in question then a guard card might not be required. The guard card I would think would only come into play in terms of paying/hiring someone to provide security.

N6ATF
02-10-2011, 2:47 PM
A guard card is easy and cheap to obtain though. I believe you can even do it online now, but there is additional training required for being an armed security guard.

Which is only slightly less easy, but not at all cheap.

Firemark
02-10-2011, 3:10 PM
The business is open to the public for what would be standard business hours (9a-5p), but produces product all through the day and night and is not open to the public (5p-9a). It is on at least an acre of land and is fenced and gated. I found PC 12026 (b) and we all have substantial ownership interest in the place. (we own substantial stock in the company and are privately owned not public).

Specifically working at the business doing production, cleaning, and maintenence during hours not open to the public, while armed, can anyone find a PC violation in this?

Wildeman_13
02-10-2011, 3:25 PM
If it is this big of a worry, I suggest getting a quote for armed night security from a reputable company. Have them stick around for however long you think the "threat" might exist.

dantodd
02-10-2011, 3:29 PM
The business is open to the public for what would be standard business hours (9a-5p), but produces product all through the day and night and is not open to the public (5p-9a). It is on at least an acre of land and is fenced and gated. I found PC 12026 (b) and we all have substantial ownership interest in the place. (we own substantial stock in the company and are privately owned not public).

Specifically working at the business doing production, cleaning, and maintenence during hours not open to the public, while armed, can anyone find a PC violation in this?

If the business is operating, even not "open" to the public then there is no problem with an owner, who is on-site to "run the business," carrying a firearm.

You might also want to look into getting a CCW. With a documented threat to all the owners it is quit likely that you would qualify. This is, of course, assuming that you reported the person's potentially threatening behavior at the time.

choprzrul
02-10-2011, 3:45 PM
If it is this big of a worry, I suggest getting a quote for armed night security from a reputable company. Have them stick around for however long you think the "threat" might exist.

^^This^^

I'm betting security companies are less expensive than law firms...

.

Firemark
02-10-2011, 4:13 PM
If it is this big of a worry, I suggest getting a quote for armed night security from a reputable company. Have them stick around for however long you think the "threat" might exist.

Yea the problem is the compnany has been run into the ground so finances are the difficult point, armed night security is just not something that can financially be managed at this time.

"You might also want to look into getting a CCW. With a documented threat to all the owners it is quit likely that you would qualify. This is, of course, assuming that you reported the person's potentially threatening behavior at the time. "

Yea this is San Diego, and like all other people running on 7 cylinders, the first threat will be the busted gasket hopping the fence at 3 am and torching the facility.

Although we believe that force will not be needed, the deterence factor of being armed in case of violent confrontation is always a possibility. We just want to make sure that being armed on the property is not illegal, and from the looks of most responses it appears it is... thanks for the input everyone.

locosway
02-11-2011, 7:18 AM
The owner of a business and any persons given permission by the owner can carry concealed or openly in their place of business even if it is open to the public.

Keep in mind that firearms are to be used to guard life, not property.

Soldier415
02-11-2011, 7:30 AM
Our retail locations are open to the public, and every staff member packs.

GrizzlyGuy
02-11-2011, 7:45 AM
See here in the wiki, lots of good info including PC and case law cites: Unlicensed Concealed Carry (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Unlicensed_Concealed_Carry)