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G17GUY
02-09-2011, 3:38 PM
I was reading an article in the Sacramento Bee about Public land trusts. It talks about public money is being used to purchase land for preservation.

Since it is public money being used to purchase the land, do gun owners have a right to use the land?

Also, It states that the land is bought by nonprofit organizations using taxpayer money.

How about a Not for profit Calguns organization that purchases land with taxpayers money for the purpose of safe and sane shooting?


http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/08/3385006/poor-economy-enables-public-land.html

SgtDinosaur
02-09-2011, 4:22 PM
Good luck with that. Sorry to be so cynical.

zhyla
02-09-2011, 4:25 PM
Since it is public money being used to purchase the land, do gun owners have a right to use the land?

Since it is public money, do desert rats have a right to drive ATV's all over it? The state has regulatory domain over state-owned lands.

You could maybe argue for the right to "bear arms" on that public land, but we don't automatically get to shoot some place because it's public. The state preserves I've been to explicitly ban shooting.

a1c
02-09-2011, 4:31 PM
I know a little bit about the subject.

First of all, most of those land trusts also largely rely on private donations, not solely on public money.

Second, some of the land secured is sometimes eventually given back to the community by being handed over to BLM after restoration or cleanup.

Finally, preservation and conservation are two different things. Here we're talking about preservation. Some of the ecosystems secured has sometimes been damaged by use - industrial, recreational - and needs to be preserved so that, for instance, endemic species can reclaim their habitat. That means that often, those areas are off limits outside of specific hiking paths - so forget about shooting there.

Frankly, given the out-of-control development we've seen in some areas of the country over the past 5 years - where there are now entire neighborhoods filled with empty McMansions or condos - I am not feeling too sorry for developers. I see this recent trend as countering the overdevelopment we've seen over the past few years.

odysseus
02-09-2011, 4:38 PM
...step into the world that is Marin County where we have a LOT of public land trusts that were handed over to preserve against development and are now county open spaces for public recreation. They are actually beautiful and awesome to have, and makes this place very special.

However they have got it now where mountain bikers, here in Marin where mountain biking started, are barely allowed on any of them and the rangers are making mountain bikers criminals - even having setup barbed wire "traps" in places where bikers could get hurt. Yeah - they seem to be able to control that by all kinds of charter. It would be interesting to even imagine how one could force in the right to recreational shoot in one of those places.

Jack L
02-09-2011, 7:30 PM
Some of the trust lands, after purchase hardly allow anything to take place on them. Some are not even known to the public in hopes no one uses them I guess. Greenies like to keep animals and humans off some of these places.

Our best bet is to utilize BLM land for shooting while we can. Everything is shrinking as the population grows.

harbinger007
02-09-2011, 10:52 PM
I read that article and I believe the land trust had purchased a conservation easement. I saw on the finance committee of a similar (but larger) land trust for a few years so know a fair amount about it. I believe the article was talking about a situation in which the trust I worked with was actively involved in where we bought conservation easements, ensuring the property would not be developed. The owner of the land (usually a farmer) continued to own the land and farm it, run cattle on it, etc. The easement didn't give the public any rights to use it other than to enjoy the scenic views from the road, etc. Nearly all of the easements I saw were purchased with funds handed over by developers as a condition for the counties approving a development project on other land (i.e., we'll let you develop this 80 acres but it will cost $400,000 to be paid to a land trust to purchase conservation easements on other land).

BusBoy
02-10-2011, 7:51 AM
here in Marin where mountain biking started,


Chuckle... Mt Biking became popular and mainstream because of Marin... it most certainly didn't originate there.

One of the earliest references you can find was a group of black soldiers in the 1890's. Known as the 25th Infantry Buffalo Soldiers, these guys were probably in better shape than most of us are today.

The Buffalo Soldiers were based in Missoula, Montana and rode single speed bikes that were modified for long distance travel with supplies over rough terrain. They weighed about 70lbs-120lbs when loaded.

Their two biggest trips of note were a nearly 800 mile round trip ride from Missoula to Yellowstone, and a 1900 mile one-way trip to St Louis, Missouri.

Another well known group of "mountain bike pioneers" was the Velo Cross Club Parisian (France - Early 1950's). This group if cyclists was customizing their 650-B bikes with some remarkable modifications for their time. They had handlebar shifters, fat tires, and even some suspension.

Further credit goes to a guy named John Finley Scott who modified his bike "The Woodsie" in 1953 for fun rides in the outdoors. He too had shifting gears, fat tires, flat handlebars etc.