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View Full Version : My buddy got denied CCW in Sac County


Cobrafreak
02-08-2011, 7:11 PM
We both went through the training together and had the interviews days apart. I get mine in the mail in a week. He got a denial letter. Apparently about 10 years ago he was a student at a University out of State and he was at a club. He was confronted and cornered by three football players that were going to mess him up. He swung first at the biggest guy and broke his jaw and he was arrested. He should not have swung first, but swung last. Anyway, he can appeal this. Is there anything he can do like get a lawyer or something to fix this problem? I personally can vouch for this guy. He is a fine person, just that fight years ago and now this.

HowardW56
02-08-2011, 7:21 PM
We both went through the training together and had the interviews days apart. I get mine in the mail in a week. He got a denial letter. Apparently about 10 years ago he was a student at a University out of State and he was at a club. He was confronted and cornered by three football players that were going to mess him up. He swung first at the biggest guy and broke his jaw and he was arrested. He should not have swung first, but swung last. Anyway, he can appeal this. Is there anything he can do like get a lawyer or something to fix this problem? I personally can vouch for this guy. He is a fine person, just that fight years ago and now this.

Was he charged with a crime? Was he convicted?

paul0660
02-08-2011, 7:23 PM
Did they specify the reason?

Blackhawk556
02-08-2011, 7:23 PM
The SO probably thinks he will overreact and shot first if he ever gets in a corner. Crazy how things in the past will come back to haunt you

Cobrafreak
02-08-2011, 7:31 PM
He was charged and convicted. It was not a felony. He legally owns many firearms, including a semi auto AK-47 CA assault weapon with CA DOJ letter stating that he is entitled to it that I'm jealous as hell of. He just can't CCW. Unfortunately for him it was a deep southern university and he happens to be a black man. He probably could not have got a fair trial at the time anyway unfortunately. I'm just don't know if there is anything he can do to make an appeal an EFFECTIVE appeal. It was a long time ago and he is really a good guy with no temper whatsoever.

wildhawker
02-08-2011, 7:34 PM
Until "good moral character" is defined as "not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm", denials like these are very difficult to administratively reverse.

CalBear
02-08-2011, 7:42 PM
That's unfortunate. It kind of makes sense why they'd do that though. The SO will avoid people with marks on their record, because it's permitted by law, and because the last thing they want is a media frezy if the person to screw up with the CCW and the press digs into the guy's past. We really need to cut back on SO discretion in CCW issuing. It should be shall issue to anyone not prohibited from owning firearms.

PandaLuv
02-08-2011, 10:28 PM
Just curious, I know this old fart. He told me it's almost impossible to get ccw license. Is that true?

wildhawker
02-08-2011, 10:32 PM
Just curious, I know this old fart. He told me it's almost impossible to get ccw license. Is that true?

A very ambiguous question. Where, exactly? The answer is relative to location.

ohsmily
02-08-2011, 10:54 PM
Send me a PM if your friend is interested in some assistance with appealing his CCW denial. He has 30 days from the date of his denial letter.

You may also contact CGF directly and the foundation may or may not elect to assist him.

PandaLuv
02-08-2011, 10:54 PM
East Bay.
That old dude lives in Orinda. I live in Concord.
I am curious cause he said you need an approval from the county's sheriff's office, 5 people to vouch for you, take a psychological test, go shooting and get 10 out of 10 confirmed shots, and shoot with the left or right equally good.
I think it's bs, that's why I was asking lol. Sorry still a noob.

Librarian
02-08-2011, 11:03 PM
Ah. Contra Costa.

Can't speak to the precise values of the specifics, but it boils down to 'pretty difficult in CoCoCo'. For a little while yet, that's accurate.

wildhawker
02-08-2011, 11:03 PM
Check out the Contra Costa info at www.gotcarry.org and in the county thread here at CGN in the CCW Info Forum. Also, see our Civilian CCW Guide at CGF.

PandaLuv
02-08-2011, 11:13 PM
Wow, ok this sucks.
It costs just about the same going into a police academy.

Not as hard, but al that work and money don't even guaranty that you will get the CCW license.

stix213
02-08-2011, 11:39 PM
We both went through the training together and had the interviews days apart. I get mine in the mail in a week. He got a denial letter. Apparently about 10 years ago he was a student at a University out of State and he was at a club. He was confronted and cornered by three football players that were going to mess him up. He swung first at the biggest guy and broke his jaw and he was arrested. He should not have swung first, but swung last. Anyway, he can appeal this. Is there anything he can do like get a lawyer or something to fix this problem? I personally can vouch for this guy. He is a fine person, just that fight years ago and now this.

Did he get denied because of the arrest? Or did he get denied because he lied and said he had never been arrested when in fact he knew he had?

pitchbaby
02-09-2011, 12:29 AM
I'd be curious to know if Sac is denying for the same reason that their neighbor's in Placer are denying for... traffic citations. (Any comments on this?)

Denying for a fight is understandable... although 10 yrs ago... now that seems to be pushing it. Could it be possible that the reason he didn't get a fair shake in the deep south is part of the reason he is getting the brush from the Sac SO?

Callipygian
02-09-2011, 12:46 AM
Until "good moral character" is defined as "not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm", denials like these are very difficult to administratively reverse.

Brandon, what about peeps with expunged/dismissed convictions?

CaliforniaLiberal
02-09-2011, 12:51 AM
Did he get denied because of the arrest? Or did he get denied because he lied and said he had never been arrested when in fact he knew he had?


This is the first thing I thought of. Not giving complete information on the application that comes to light while history is being checked is a pretty big deal.

santacruzstefan
02-09-2011, 1:10 AM
Brandon, what about peeps with expunged/dismissed convictions?

I was told it would be better to disclose everything, and include proof of the expungement. This is one reason why I'm waiting, to clear something up. I don't look great on paper, but if you asked anyone who has ever known me, they would vouch for my character. Its a shame how transgressions of the past can come back to bite you years after you learned your lesson and paid your debt to society. It will be nice when CCW reform results in changing the moral character definition.

ChrisTKHarris
02-09-2011, 1:51 AM
I'd be curious to know if Sac is denying for the same reason that their neighbor's in Placer are denying for... traffic citations. (Any comments on this?)

Denying for a fight is understandable... although 10 yrs ago... now that seems to be pushing it. Could it be possible that the reason he didn't get a fair shake in the deep south is part of the reason he is getting the brush from the Sac SO?

I have a speeding ticket on my record, the two year mark is here at the end of February. I was still able to receive my CCW for Sac County.

Cobrafreak
02-09-2011, 6:18 AM
Did he get denied because of the arrest? Or did he get denied because he lied and said he had never been arrested when in fact he knew he had?

I went over it with him before he submitted it. He disclosed everything, and had mentioned this incident. I had personally thought that it was so long ago it would be overlooked. Shoot, I had disclosed a reckless driving conviction myself, albeit it was 25 years ago, and I was able to obtain my CCW.

IEShooter
02-09-2011, 8:55 AM
I have a speeding ticket on my record, the two year mark is here at the end of February. I was still able to receive my CCW for Sac County.


I have an embarrassing number of speeding tickets within the last three years (4-5). All for speeding with one for breaking out of the car pool lane across the double yellows (yes, that was expensive). It doesnt' help that I drive over 20,000 miles a year, most of which is on a motorcycle.

The county I live in still issued me my CCW.

Their view seems to be that everyone get's tickets and unless they are for drag racing, reckless driving, or some other more serious situation, simple speeding less than 20 over isn't that big of a deal.

Now, I should say that prior to these latest tickets in the last 4 years, I had gone over 6 years without a ticket despite wearing out three motorcycles with all the driving I do.

The spurt of tickets I got seems to coincide with a new, faster motorcycle :rolleyes:, and the downturn in the economy. Gotta feed the state cash register!!! :)

To the OP, appeals are often successful, but lying to the investigator either in person or on the forms is a disqualifier. If he had a conviction and failed to disclose it, his goose is cooked. Not trying to imply your friend did this, but I hear of these frequently.

There can be other disqualifiers too, depending on county.

I would suggest he try to appeal and very frankly explain his reasoning behind his arrest and conviction and how he doesn't feel he was treated fairly due to the circumstances of his arrest and the time frame/culture from back then. He should also stress that he is fully aware of the big difference between a school yard scuffle and using a gun in a deadly force situation. Very different circumstances with different thresholds of recourse.

pitchbaby
02-09-2011, 8:58 AM
I have an embarrassing number of speeding tickets within the last three years (4-5). All for speeding with one for breaking out of the car pool lane across the double yellows (yes, that was expensive). It doesnt' help that I drive over 20,000 miles a year, most of which is on a motorcycle.

The county I live in still issued me my CCW.

Their view seems to be that everyone get's tickets and unless they are for drag racing, reckless driving, or some other more serious situation, simple speeding less than 20 over isn't that big of a deal.

Now, I should say that prior to these latest tickets in the last 4 years, I had gone over 6 years without a ticket despite wearing out three motorcycles with all the driving I do.

The spurt of tickets I got seems to coincide with a new, faster motorcycle :rolleyes:, and the downturn in the economy. Gotta feed the state cash register!!! :)

To the OP, appeals are often successful, but lying to the investigator either in person or on the forms is a disqualifier. If he had a conviction and failed to disclose it, his goose is cooked. Not trying to imply your friend did this, but I hear of these frequently.

There can be other disqualifiers too, depending on county.

I would suggest he try to appeal and very frankly explain his reasoning behind his arrest and conviction and how he doesn't feel he was treated fairly due to the circumstances of his arrest and the time frame/culture from back then. He should also stress that he is fully aware of the big difference between a school yard scuffle and using a gun in a deadly force situation. Very different circumstances with different thresholds of recourse.

What county do you live in? Knowing this can prove helpful to something we are trying to do in Placer. If you want to keep it private, please PM me.