Carrying without a permit

[Gunsmoker]

Hypothetically speaking, what kind of trouble will I get in if I am caught armed with a cocked and locked registered handgun in a holster by a LEO out on the streets?

What if I kill a man in self-defense out on the streets? Can I get into more trouble?

[Stanze]

*DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer, just a dude w/ 2 cents.*

If you life in Vermont or Alaska nothing(no CCW required).

If you live in California and are not a gang member, it's a misdemeanor-could result in multiple charges to upgrade it to felony. And, you're at the mercy of the DA and jury/judge if you have to use it.

Not a good idea legally, better idea to secure a CCW.

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...";)

[hoffmang]

You'll be charged with misdemeanor carrying concealed under Penal Code Section 12031. (a) (1).

You'll have to sell all your guns and lose the ability to purchase guns in the future.

IANAL, but I can read...

-Gene

[metalhead357]

And now that you've posted in a public forum about it and yerr' said thing ever happens...and they find this thread it could be argued that it shows a certain level of premeditation................ NOT a good thing.

Not a lawyer & this aint legal advice

[Diabolus]

And now that you've posted in a public forum about it and yerr' said thing ever happens...and they find this thread it could be argued that it shows a certain level of premeditation................ NOT a good thing.

Not a lawyer & this aint legal advice


Stuffing a gun in your waistband and walking out the door is enough for "premeditation".

[Gunsmoker]

How difficult is it to get a carry permit in West LA?

What do I have to do?

Spotless record?

[Diabolus]

How difficult is it to get a carry permit in West LA?

What do I have to do?

Spotless record?

Just asking those questions would mean you have no connections so no CCW, the Average Joe is expendable.

[hoffmang]

Unless you have a job related security need or some documented personal threats it can be very hard. The best thing to do would be to contact http://www.trutanichmichel.com/ and pay them for a few hours of their time to fill out the application for you.

-Gene

[Bill_in_SD]

But we are trying to change things.

Head over to www.californiaccw.org for information on getting a license.

Yes, even in L.A.

Bill in SD

[Blackwater OPS]

You'll be charged with misdemeanor carrying concealed under Penal Code Section 12031. (a) (1).

You'll have to sell all your guns and lose the ability to purchase guns in the future.

IANAL, but I can read...

-Gene

For a misdemeanor? Is that right?

[hoffmang]

If you don't have priors or gang related or a whole bunch of other things that most folks don't have it turns out its just a misdemeanor. I was surprised too but that was from reading the Code.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html

Also, reading it again it looks like you don't lose your firearms if you get the misdemeanor...

-Gene

[Edited to add the URL]

[artherd]

It is a wobbler, and it will only wobble to misdomenor if the gun is REGISTERED TO YOU, and if no other exigient factors arrise.

If successfully prosecuted as a misdomenor, it will still not be a prohibiting misdomenor.

Expect to spend at least a night in jail, $tens of thousands in legal fees, etc. All this for what should be (and is) a basic human right.

[metalhead357]

How difficult is it to get a carry permit in West LA?

What do I have to do?

Spotless record?

As the other poster said...at least for THAT location your chances are next to near ZERO.

The "simple" solution, move to a more friendlier county. The long route, get a job that would necessitate you have one (LEO, 'some' security, bank guard, etc............. I dont have it 'documented' but I hear its oft times even hard down there for FFL's to get one~ which is usually next too a "sure thing" in many other areas.........

As always...YMMV

Good luck...but I wouldn't recommend 'carrying' without a CCW!!!!!!!!!!

[Blackwater OPS]

I think the smart move would be to plead out on thw CCW charge. No need to fight a legal battle on that one. At least if you know you are guilty. Hell I strongly believe hr218 applies to me, but I would still plead out if it came to that.

FYI, I think if you need to use the gun in self defense you will not be procecuted. I don't know that for a fact, but I have heard it quite a bit.

[megavolt121]

If you don't have priors or gang related or a whole bunch of other things that most folks don't have it turns out its just a misdemeanor. I was surprised too but that was from reading the Code.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html

Also, reading it again it looks like you don't lose your firearms if you get the misdemeanor...

-Gene

[Edited to add the URL]

Politians added in that section so average joe blows would "get off the hook" if they were caught carrying and not sent directly to prison. Of course, you only get that misdemanor once and probably will lose your gun.

[the_quark]

FYI, I think if you need to use the gun in self defense you will not be procecuted. I don't know that for a fact, but I have heard it quite a bit.

Unfortunately, no one can know that for a fact, one way or another, because it's not specified in the law. Whichever of the famous 58 DAs you live under could decide to prosecute, or not, and the exact details of your case will no doubt be a factor. It wouldn't surprise me if most of 'em would let you off, in that case, but I'm sure some of them (probably in the larger cities) really hate people they see as vigilantes and would be happy to send the message that, if someone needs to be shot, you need to stand around and wait for the police to come do it for you.

Frankly, though, if you live in a dangerous enough area that you feel so compelled to carry that you'll do it illegally if you have to, the fact that you might get a misdemeanor prosecution if you have to defend yourself probably doesn't enter into the calculations, much...

[Dont Tread on Me]

Politicians added in that section so average joe blows would "get off the hook" if they were caught carrying and not sent directly to prison. Of course, you only get that misdemeanor once and probably will lose your gun.

I understand that politicians added that section so that all their friends that carry without CCWs get off the hook.

My reading is that this "one life" things applies only to guns. If you get caught with a concealed knife (folders don't count when folded) then you are a felon and you loose your rights to a gun for ten years.

[JPglee1]

then you are a felon and you loose your rights to a gun for ten years.

Felons lose their rights for life, unless you can get it reduced under a 1203.4 motion to reduce, and then you're still a "convicted felon" when LEO pulls your record...

Don't carry without proper papers...Its just not worth it.

Roll with a shotty in the car, that's 100% legal and you can carry it inside wherever you're going...

Handgun is risky...too much so IMHO>


J

[hdcd]

Felons lose their rights for life, unless you can get it reduced under a 1203.4 motion to reduce, and then you're still a "convicted felon" when LEO pulls your record...

Don't carry without proper papers...Its just not worth it.

Roll with a shotty in the car, that's 100% legal and you can carry it inside wherever you're going...

Handgun is risky...too much so IMHO>


J

So your life isn't worth it? :rolleyes:

[Python2]

Roll with a shotty in the car, that's 100% legal and you can carry it inside wherever you're going...

Handgun is risky...too much so IMHO>


J

What do you mean "roll with a shotty in the car".:confused: Can you say it in plain english please?

[Stormfeather]

So your life isn't worth it? :rolleyes:


ohhh... thats a very good retort. . . .
The way I see it, dont do the crime if you arent willing to do the time. Should we have a easier time getting a ccw, of course. Do we really actually get up off of our butts and do anything about it? The answer to this is unfortunately usually. . . no.
I took the time to get my Florida CCW, Ohio CCW, Nevada and Utah, and now im the proud recipient of a California CCW, issued in Sacramento county no less!

No, im not a LEO, or even a business owner. I just petitioned long enough and patiently enough.
I had my Ohio CCW when I moved to this state. Spend the time getting your Florida CCW, you dont ever have to go to florida, you can access it via their Dept of Agriculture licensing division, they send you the packet, you fill it out, go down and get your live scan done, send in the appropriate fees and within a month and a half, you get a CCW good in 29 states, from there you get your spend the time and get your Utah and Nevada CCW's. After youve done that, then apply for a PRK CCW. Hopefully you will get lucky.

Good luck in it though!

[M. Sage]

What do you mean "roll with a shotty in the car".:confused: Can you say it in plain english please?

Translation: Drive around with an unloaded shotgun in the backseat (or passenger seat, for that matter.)

Warning: local laws may prohibit. I'm not sure, and wouldn't want to find out.

hdcd:
Your life ain't gonna be much if you're sitting in prison with the animals that you wanted to protect yourself from in the first place.

[grammaton76]

Personally, I'd be more inclined to use an unloaded rifle, but I do concur with the sentiment. A Yugo with stripper clips is pretty fast to load, and you don't have to deal with the ambiguity where LEOs believe that loaded mag = loaded weapon. If it weren't for that one issue, my preference would be for an M4-length gripless AR...

[Bruce]

You'll be charged with misdemeanor carrying concealed under Penal Code Section 12031. (a) (1).


-Gene


Actually, its 12025(a)(1)PC. 12031(a)(1) is carrying a loaded firearm in a public place" and applies to long guns as well as handguns.

[lazyman]

Hypothetically speaking, what kind of trouble will I get in if I am caught armed with a cocked and locked registered handgun in a holster by a LEO out on the streets?

What if I kill a man in self-defense out on the streets? Can I get into more trouble?

don't do it dude, it's not worth it. Our laws are not gun carry friendly. your best bet for carrying defensive items on the street against hoodlums is mace, air taser, folding knife. air tasers are especitally cool but at 500 bucks I'd rather carry a nice can of mace and a decent folding blade. carrying registered guns is a no no.

[JPglee1]

So your life isn't worth it? :rolleyes:

Well of course it is, but I don't do illegal things like carry in public without a CCW, its just not worth getting stuck in prison or losing my rights over it...


Also, I'm smart enough to not talk about it on an internet forum if I did...lol :cool: :D

I personally like the shotgun in the car.... I cruise around with my Mossie 500 behind the seat usually. I also carry a couple legal fixed blade knives (un concealed of course) for backup plan.

If you're that stressed about it (like going to someone's house you dont know, say for work reasons) carry the handgun un loaded in a lock box and load it/carry it once you get where you're going (its legal to carry in a private place like a home/business as long as the owner OKs it)

You most likely DONT need a gun in the car, but if you do I think a 12GA shotty would stop most people from threatening your life further ;)


J

[JPglee1]

What do you mean "roll with a shotty in the car".:confused: Can you say it in plain english please?

Shoot I thought that WAS plain english...

Roll with a shotty in the car = drive around with a legally owned, un loaded shotgun in your car next to you, or behind the drivers seat, with no shells attached in anyway to the shotgun. Put them in a 5 round carrier screwed to the dash or door panel, and leave the action of the shotty open so you can drop a shell in close it and fire. 100% legal and quick to action. Not too bad for ergos with a pistol grip inside a car.


J

[Spawn_X]

Wouldn't you still catch heat if you don't come up with a legit reason for having the shotgun next to you?

[M. Sage]

Personally, I'd be more inclined to use an unloaded rifle, but I do concur with the sentiment. A Yugo with stripper clips is pretty fast to load, and you don't have to deal with the ambiguity where LEOs believe that loaded mag = loaded weapon. If it weren't for that one issue, my preference would be for an M4-length gripless AR...

That's true. They do load pretty nicely.

If I was going to pick and choose, though... if it's not going to be something detachable mag, I'd go with a double-barrel shotgun.. or even a single-shot break-open. Fast as hell to load, and you probably won't need more than one or two shots anyway.

Spawn: According to state law, you don't need a reason for having the shotgun next to you. There's no law (State law!! Local laws may vary, I don't know) that prohibits it. Only AW's and pistols have restrictions like "needing a reason" and must be locked in a case anyway.

[Spawn_X]

Spawn: According to state law, you don't need a reason for having the shotgun next to you. There's no law (State law!! Local laws may vary, I don't know) that prohibits it. Only AW's and pistols have restrictions like "needing a reason" and must be locked in a case anyway.

Thanks, appreciate that.

Think its finally time to pick up a benelli m4 :D

[Bishop]

Personally, I'd be more inclined to use an unloaded rifle, but I do concur with the sentiment. A Yugo with stripper clips is pretty fast to load, and you don't have to deal with the ambiguity where LEOs believe that loaded mag = loaded weapon.

That's a good idea... I'm actually in the process of researching a "trunk gun" purchase, and you guys are making me rethink my decisions about detatched mags, and the intimidation factor of a 12 guage...

Edit: fyi: before now; I was all but decided on a kel-tec su-16ca...

[linuxgunner]

Come to: http://californiaccw.org . There is a big fight brewing in LA and we're going to win.

[Dont Tread on Me]

Come to: http://californiaccw.org . There is a big fight brewing in LA and we're going to win.

Imagine the day when I move to LA to get a easy CCW! What is the game plan?

[hoffmang]

Bishop - If it adds weight, I'm planning on going SU-16CA for my trunk.

-Gene

[grammaton76]

Bishop - If it adds weight, I'm planning on going SU-16CA for my trunk.

If you do that, I would advise a few things:

1. Keep ammo on stripper clips, and use the fancy mag-based stripper clip guides to load the mag if need be.

2. Keep an empty 10rd mag in the SU-16's magwell to keep dust and lint and such out of the action. Stuff likes to roam around in trunks...

3. If you're going to keep a loaded mag, then keep it in a toolchest or something, seperate from the rifle. If an LEO SHOULD see the rifle, seeing that you've taken the steps from #1 may be adequate to dissuade them from assuming there's a loaded mag somewhere and looking for it. This is, of course, in the event you get one of the LEOs on the "loaded, seperate mag = loaded weapon" side of the debate, of which there are many.

[metalhead357]

Shoot I thought that WAS plain english...

Roll with a shotty in the car = drive around with a legally owned, un loaded shotgun in your car next to you,

LOL! Maybe because it was that UNblessedededededed word "shotty". If'n ya' want to abbreviate....how about "SG" or the traditional "12 GA":p

[chiefcrash]

depending on what county and city, if you open carry it, you'll get harassed but not charged with anything...

[mblat]

Realistically the answer it - who knows. I know of a guy ( I know him personally - so it isn't one of the "I heard from a friend who heard from his girlfriend stories”).
So he was found carrying UNREGISTERED gun in his car. The gun was his, but it was bought at the gun show years back, so there was no record of him owning the gun what so ever.
He has almost clean record (long time ago he had DUI) lives and was stopped in LA, not a West LA however. He lost the gun and had to do some community service (read picking up dirt on the side of the roads). That is all.
He didn’t even bother to hire a lawyer, in spite of multiple advices by everybody. He didn’t have to give up any other guns – and he has plenty.
So like I said – it depends on day of the week with conjunction with the phases of the moon.
By law I think carrying can be prosecuted REGISTERED gun is misdemeanor, UNREGISTERED – felony. Key words here – “can be”.

EDIT: and BTW - if you have to use it and it is proven that it was "clean shot" then you won't be prosecuted with anything. Right to self defense will tramp everything else. However proving that it was “clean shot” may be the problem. I know somebody who was in that situation – who was pharmacist and was carrying because he was handling large amount of medication. Somebody attempted to rob his store – he shot an assailant – nothing happened to him. In that case they didn’t even confiscate his gun, even though I think they can.

[Blackwater OPS]

If you're LE and have HR218 privileges, why would you be pleading to anything? Just curious...

I'm Army military police(CID), and there is some debate on HR218 and it's application to us.

[Bishop]

I know somebody who was in that situation – who was pharmacist and was carrying because he was handling large amount of medication. Somebody attempted to rob his store – he shot an assailant – nothing happened to him. In that case they didn’t even confiscate his gun, even though I think they can.

I think there are some serious differences in the law between carrying in a public area and carrying in your home/business. AFAIK a man's home and business are legally his "castle" and can be defended as the owner sees fit.

Had your pharmacist just locked up and got robbed on his way to his car, (carrying legally or not) I think the situation would have been very different.

[Spawn_X]

I think there are some serious differences in the law between carrying in a public area and carrying in your home/business. AFAIK a man's home and business are legally his "castle" and can be defended as the owner sees fit.

x2

How to own a gun and stay out of jail in California explains that all pretty clearly

[artherd]

This is, of course, in the event you get one of the LEOs on the "loaded, seperate mag = loaded weapon" side of the debate, of which there are many.
They are all wrong.

[mblat]

I think there are some serious differences in the law between carrying in a public area and carrying in your home/business. AFAIK a man's home and business are legally his "castle" and can be defended as the owner sees fit.



Not really.... Owner still have to consider retreat first, before resorting to deadly force. PRK aren't Florida....:mad: We have no "right to stand ground", especially when there is no imminent physical threat. How feasible is a criminal prosecution of somebody, who defended his home, from practical stand point is the different question. PRK law certainly allows for it. Civil prosecution is almost a certainty. Once more, “Toto, we not in Texas anymore”.


Had your pharmacist just locked up and got robbed on his way to his car, (carrying legally or not) I think the situation would have been very different.

Again, not necessarily. It depends on…. phases of the moon.
There was a case recently when old lady shot and wounded somebody who was trying to jack her car. I am not aware if her gun was properly licensed, but most old lady’s are carrying guns than used to belong to husbands. So I doubt that is was.
In general I doubt very much that any prosecutor will file a charge against person who defended his/her life, regardless of how gun was acquired. We are not talking about special circumstances, like that case couple years ago, when guy was convicted and sent to jail after shooting an intruder in his child bedroom. It was determined that he himself was a felon, who had no right to keep firearms no matter what.
And, no, I don’t agree with the prosecutor on the matter. I would probably confiscate the gun in question, may be arrange for some community service…. But I wouldn’t send guy to jail for defending his kid.

[mailman]

Stuffing a gun in your waistband and walking out the door is enough for "premeditation".


I agree, and in the event u shoot someone and they die or not , you would have only added to your charges and put doubt in the mind of the jurors of your inocence.

[metalhead357]

So he was found carrying UNREGISTERED gun in his car. The

By law I think carrying can be prosecuted REGISTERED gun is misdemeanor, UNREGISTERED – felony. Key words here – “can be”.

EDIT: and BTW - if you have to use it and it is proven that it was "clean shot" then you won't be prosecuted with anything. Right to self defense will tramp everything else. However proving that it was “clean shot” may be the problem. I know somebody who was in that situation – who was pharmacist and was carrying because he was handling large amount of medication. Somebody attempted to rob his store – he shot an assailant – nothing happened to him. In that case they didn’t even confiscate his gun, even though I think they can.

There's more to this story then that... WHAT did he get pulled over for?
I could understand a pistol, but WHEN was this? What year? DOJ does NOT have records that go alllllllllll that far back.......................

[MaceWindu]

So your life isn't worth it?

..superb point...it might be better to just hope the active shooter doesn't target you or your family.:rolleyes:


Mace

[mblat]

There's more to this story then that... WHAT did he get pulled over for?
I could understand a pistol, but WHEN was this? What year? DOJ does NOT have records that go alllllllllll that far back.......................

Guy was pulled over for "driving erratically". He passed sobriety test ( he didn’t drink that night). After that officer asked him if he had any booze in the car and when he answered “no, I don’t” officer asked if he can look in the car.
He totally forgot that he had gun under his seat and said “yes”. Knowing him, he probably put that gun under the seat when he bought the car and never taken it out.
It was either late last year or early this year – I don’t remember exactly if it was before or after Christmas. May be later? I don’t remember exactly.
I don’t understand you comment about DOJ not having records. Like I said he had this gun for probably 25-30 years.

[metalhead357]

That 25 year mark is close; even the DOJ website notes that not all handgun registrations have been "converted over" and go back....at best....to 1978. Couple this with so many weapons were sold LEGALLY in this state without any registration of the time........

I feel for your friend. If indeed all that was what happend; one of those 1 in an near 1 million shot. Long story short, yeah, it happens, somebody finds one of those micro cracks to have fallen through...and your friend found it:cool:

[blkA4alb]

depending on what county and city, if you open carry it, you'll get harassed but not charged with anything...
IIRC, if the soccer moms start freaking out and calling the cops you could get booked for disturbing the peace.

[blkA4alb]

Not really.... Owner still have to consider retreat first, before resorting to deadly force. PRK aren't Florida....:mad: We have no "right to stand ground", especially when there is no imminent physical threat. How feasible is a criminal prosecution of somebody, who defended his home, from practical stand point is the different question. PRK law certainly allows for it. Civil prosecution is almost a certainty. Once more, “Toto, we not in Texas anymore”.

There is no requirement to retreat in your house or place of business.

[M. Sage]

There is no requirement to retreat in your house or place of business.

Campsites and, I believe, hotel rooms count as your "domain," too. Same rules.

[mblat]

Originally Posted by mblat
Not really.... Owner still have to consider retreat first, before resorting to deadly force. PRK aren't Florida.... We have no "right to stand ground", especially when there is no imminent physical threat. How feasible is a criminal prosecution of somebody, who defended his home, from practical stand point is the different question. PRK law certainly allows for it. Civil prosecution is almost a certainty. Once more, “Toto, we not in Texas anymore”.
There is no requirement to retreat in your house or place of business.

You are right. What I meant to say (admittedly it came out very wrong – I really should be more careful when posting) is that CA doesn’t have laws that absolve homeowner from any civil and criminal liability.

[Spawn_X]

Campsites and, I believe, hotel rooms count as your "domain," too. Same rules.

Make sure the campsite allows it... most don't. Same with hotel rooms - its private property. check first

[blkA4alb]

Make sure the campsite allows it... most don't. Same with hotel rooms - its private property. check first
You are legally allowed to carry on any campsite. They cannot tell you you can't.

[hoffmang]

I have been advised by certain LEOs that the lack of civil liability protection argues strongly that you should choose lethal force first and foremost when protecting yourself inside your home, boat, campsite, motel room, etc.

The key here is the word 'inside.'

-Gene

[metalhead357]

You are legally allowed to carry on any campsite. They cannot tell you you can't.

Unfortunately you're only "mostly" right. STATE PARKS that allow camping are forbidden as too are wildlife sancuarys that are not currently open to hunting. Should also note that FED MONUMENTS are also off limits:cool:

But in all this I still wouldnt expect kid gloves and a free pass if'n you try to "camp" downtown and pack around your campsite:p

[Crazed_SS]

Hypothetically speaking, what kind of trouble will I get in if I am caught armed with a cocked and locked registered handgun in a holster by a LEO out on the streets?

What if I kill a man in self-defense out on the streets? Can I get into more trouble?

A guy here in San Diego shot and killed a bum who was threatening him with a knife. The guy was charged for not having a permit.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20060201-9999-7m1salcido.html

[Spawn_X]

You are legally allowed to carry on any campsite. They cannot tell you you can't.

I know there are certain restrictions depending where you camp. I'm pretty sure up in Yosemite that would be a no go

I'll try to call a few ranger stations and get some details

[Jicko]

A guy here in San Diego shot and killed a bum who was threatening him with a knife. The guy was charged for not having a permit.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20060201-9999-7m1salcido.html

Perfect example of why CCW should be issued.

Tough choose for Brooks, get a felony charge... or DIE..... :mad:

[mblat]

A guy here in San Diego shot and killed a bum who was threatening him with a knife. The guy was charged for not having a permit.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20060201-9999-7m1salcido.html


Here goes my theory that in case of justifiable shooting nobody will bother to file charges for unregistered carry….

What a nice state we are living in….
:eek:

[Spawn_X]

Perfect example of why CCW should be issued.

Tough choose for Brooks, get a felony charge... or DIE..... :mad:

I thought carrying concealed wasn't a felony?

[nosewitdot]

I thought carrying concealed wasn't a felony?
i think it is a misdemenor, but when lethal force is used, thats a different story..i am not too sure myself...maybe someone can chime in and correct me

[Stanze]

I had a bum pull a knife on me years ago, it was about 2AM in downtown SD, the clubs were emptying out, I didn't want to look like a **********, so I got into a fighting stance, yelled at the top of my lungs for him to bring it. After seeing all the attention he was getting, he put the knife away and walked off. Yeah, I was ********ting bricks at the thought of getting shanked.:eek:

I worked with a guy who used to drive a cab, he carried without a CCW, two punks robbed and shot him one day, he drew and fired back wounding them, he was hospitalized, the perps were tried and convicted, my friend was not charged for defending himself or carrying w/o CCW.:) Case by case basis.

I often pondered what would be the ideal set-up for no CCW(no stick around) carry. loading the mags with gloves on, using a aftermarket barrel, firing pin and extractor. Snubby .357 loaded with Mag-Safe ammo to minimize ballistic evidence....but, live by the non-CCW, die by the non-CCW.:(

But, if you want true peace of mind, a CCW will give you a big part of it.

[nosewitdot]

i guess for the cab driver...the cab itself is his place of business, so it's legal?

i wonder if those legal prostitutes in nevada carry since their bodies are their place of business :D

[Spawn_X]

i think it is a misdemenor, but when lethal force is used, thats a different story..i am not too sure myself...maybe someone can chime in and correct me

it might be a felony if your use of lethal force wasn't justified which technically is a whole other story, but just carrying without a permit should be a misdemenor

i guess for the cab driver...the cab itself is his place of business, so it's legal?

i wonder if those legal prostitutes in nevada carry since their bodies are their place of business :D

actually the courts have established that a cab is NOT a "place of business", so no luck for a taxi driver :D although to tell ya the truth, I'm glad the cab drivers in LA can't carry

[Gunsmoker]

What about carrying in your trunk? I think this is OK if the gun does not have a loaded magazine. You could say that you are heading to the gun range.

[nosewitdot]

carrying in the trunk is ok. your trunk is considered a locked case. just make sure as you said it is unloaded...and no rounds are in the magazine! because that itself is considered a loaded weapon.

[mr_leetzor]

So is a speed loader a magazine ?

[blkA4alb]

and no rounds are in the magazine! because that itself is considered a loaded weapon.
:mad: No it isn't. Does this have to come up everyweek? Its all how you interpret the definition. The wording is ambiguous.

[Gunsmoker]

carrying in the trunk is ok. your trunk is considered a locked case. just make sure as you said it is unloaded...and no rounds are in the magazine! because that itself is considered a loaded weapon.


It should be ok if the magazines are fully loaded as long as the magazines are not in the gun and a bullet is not in the chamber.

[Pthfndr]

So is a speed loader a magazine ?


yes. It's considered the equivelant.

[Blackwater OPS]

So is a speed loader a magazine ?

No, unlike the magazine it's not part of the gun. The whole thing is questionable, you COULD be arrested and you COULD be convicted. Just something to keep in mind when giving permission for a search.

Gotcha. IMHO, I'd hold off on carrying until you guys have something written that shows HR218 applies to you. Aren't some CID guys basically federal agents?

From CA DOJ that will never happen. I wrote them and got the "58 DAs ect ect" response. Local LE in my city is ok with it(talked to a watch commander/lt) and like with OLLs, I know what the law is. If I was arrested and faced with a court case I would plead out to a MD an that as well. In addition the AZ DOJ page specifically states MPs are covered.

We are technically "federal agents" but only civilian CID has the kind of protections you are thinking of. In theory, we are also certified under PC830.8 as well, but the whole thing is subject to 58 DAs yada yada.

Bottom line is it will be up to the cop on the scene to arrest, and the DA to prosecute.

[nosewitdot]

:mad: No it isn't. Does this have to come up everyweek? Its all how you interpret the definition. The wording is ambiguous.
well thank you for clearing that up for me. Then the loaded magazine is allowed in the same locked containter as the gun itself? I've been told many different things

[Blackwater OPS]

well thank you for clearing that up for me. Then the loaded magazine is allowed in the same locked containter as the gun itself? I've been told many different things

Just remember, 58 DAs...

[nosewitdot]

indeed...better to be safe than sorry

[Danger Monkey]

Hello all, new to the forum and have some knowlege about this one. There is a statutory exemption to pc 12031 (Section (J)(1)). Pay special attention to the "immediate" def.

(j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the
carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would
otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the
person or property of himself or herself or of another is in
immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is
necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used
in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and
after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has
been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its
assistance.

With this said, expect to be arrested and likely charged even if you are in the right. :(

Cheers!

[Bishop]

I've always wondered if filing for a CCW on the grounds of personal safety a few times would help your case, and shift the blame...

"Your honor, my client was forced to carry the gun illegally because the Sheriff had refused his request for a CCW permit 5 times. Each time he filed on the grounds of self defense, and each time his request was rejected because his reason was not good enough; obviously, my client DID require the weapon for self defense, and the sheriff was wrong."

I know it's the whole "58 yadda yadda", but I think it would help your case... You could even try to be a media case, and bring attention to the sheriff's denial of ccw for personal safety... Just a thought.

It's definately better than NOT attempting to get a CCW...

[hoffmang]

If you are having an issue that has real risk to it, report it. Get police report numbers and then use those as your good cause on the CCW application.

-Gene

[Bishop]

If you are having an issue that has real risk to it, report it.

I don't think that's fair. Some folks (like myself) are of the mind that the second you step out of your house (hell, even while you're in it) you and your family are potential victims.

Thinking that because you don't have "an issue" (or live in a "good" neighborhood) means that you are safe is wishful thinking, and dangerous when talking about the lives of yourself and your loved ones...

Call me paranoid, but just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you...

[hoffmang]

Bishop,

Let me clarify. I was not questioning anyone's concern here. I was saying don't be shy about getting police reports if a local disagreement warrants it to build good cause. My comment about "real risk" was to make sure you wouldn't make a local LEO laugh at your report - not that the risk wasn't real.

Also, I'm 100% for shall issue and I'd prefer to CCW most of the time as well. I've been in enough life/death situations to know that I wasn't generally expecting them.

-Gene

[artherd]

...and no rounds are in the magazine! because that itself is considered a loaded weapon.
No it isn't.