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vantec08
02-08-2011, 5:06 AM
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/02/07/constitutional-carry-introduced-in-colorado-legislature/

press1280
02-08-2011, 5:26 AM
Hmmm.....If passed, wouldn't this moot Gray's case, assuming Denver is also covered by the law?
It would also seem that CO would basically honor all other permits(even though it says reciprocity would be unaffected). Another step toward universally recognized permits.

oldschool88
02-08-2011, 5:43 AM
Very cool. Glad im heading back to Co very soon. Hopefully this pans out.

Purple K
02-08-2011, 6:39 AM
The winds of change are howling like a hurricane.

choprzrul
02-08-2011, 6:50 AM
Thank you for posting. Sent the link to my brother that lives in Colorado.

.

Window_Seat
02-08-2011, 8:29 AM
Hmmm.....If passed, wouldn't this moot Gray's case, assuming Denver is also covered by the law?
It would also seem that CO would basically honor all other permits(even though it says reciprocity would be unaffected). Another step toward universally recognized permits.

This doesn't necessarily have to moot Peterson (see below) unless the bill covers OOS residents and/or recognizes other states.

Remember as well, CO has a Governor who we didn't want (or did we?)

(ETA) from http://www.Ammoland.com (http://www.ammoland.com/2011/02/07/constitutional-carry-introduced-in-colorado-legislature/):

Just as important as what HB1205 does are what it does not do:

Does not repeal or otherwise change Colorado’s existing concealed carry permit law (CRS 18-12-201).
Does not authorize the carrying of a concealed handgun by felons, the mentally ill, juveniles or anyone otherwise prohibited from possessing a handgun under state and federal law.
Does not change where concealed handguns are allowed as defined by CRS 18-12-214.
Does not affect reciprocity agreements with other states in any manner.
Does not affect the ability of prosecutors to pursue charges for other crimes.


I read the bill as introduced, and it does not specifically enter into any reciprocity or recognize additional States' permits, nor does it allow OOS residents to CC in CO. The bill has to be amended to reflect that, and it would be in the State's best interest to do that, as it would moot Peterson. Do we start making phone calls/writing letters? Gray?

Erik.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2011, 8:37 AM
Hmmm.....If passed, wouldn't this moot Gray's case, assuming Denver is also covered by the law?
It would also seem that CO would basically honor all other permits(even though it says reciprocity would be unaffected). Another step toward universally recognized permits.

A few things:

The Senate in Colorado is not controlled by pro-gun forces. The same with the Governor's office. I am suing the current Governor's former Manager of Safety (Alvin LaCabe and later by implication Ronald Perea) when he was mayor of Denver. Hickenlooper (the current Governor) is a former (or perhaps current) member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns. Think he'd sign it?

I'm unconcerned. I'd love for it to pass and moot my case, but it is unlikely. Not to mention it will likely trigger a new round of litigation in the state court system. See the 2004 Meyers Court decision (http://www.rmgo.org/2004-news/meyers-court-decision) to see why Denver would fight it.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2011, 8:38 AM
This doesn't necessarily have to moot Peterson (see below) unless the bill covers OOS residents and/or recognizes other states.

Remember as well, CO has a Governor who we didn't want (or did we?)

Erik.

The bill covers OOS residents equally. I suppose the sponsors of the bill can argue that my case makes this bill neccesary. I certainly welcome them to do so.

Window_Seat
02-08-2011, 8:47 AM
The bill covers OOS residents equally. I suppose the sponsors of the bill can argue that my case makes this bill neccesary. I certainly welcome them to do so.

Hmmmm...

I read the bill, and it doesn't appear that it does, but if I'm not reading it right (and I hope you are right) (and I address that in the edited portion of my post above)...

Thanks, and I will start making phone calls! :thumbsup:

Erik.

safewaysecurity
02-08-2011, 8:49 AM
New Hampshire also introduced CC legislation.

Ape
02-08-2011, 8:52 AM
A few things:

The Senate in Colorado is not controlled by pro-gun forces. The same with the Governor's office. I am suing the current Governor's former Manager of Safety (Alvin LaCabe and later by implication Ronald Perea) when he was mayor of Denver. Hickenlooper (the current Governor) is a former (or perhaps current) member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns. Think he'd sign it?

I'm unconcerned. I'd love for it to pass and moot my case, but it is unlikely. Not to mention it will likely trigger a new round of litigation in the state court system. See the 2004 Meyers Court decision (http://www.rmgo.org/2004-news/meyers-court-decision) to see why Denver would fight it.

^^^ THIS ^^^

As much as I'd like to see this pass just for the basic common sense it represents.....I highly doubt it'll go anywhere. The forces that be in Denver are (and have been for some time) very anti gun.

Most people that live in Colorado know all too well that Denver is to be avoided when it comes to gun rights potentially being infringed upon illegally and legally.
Much like the voters passing medical marijuana laws here and then having those laws being ignored by the powers that be in Denver.....So to are 2A rights ignored by those same people. Sadly most Coloradoan's (sarcastically) call Denver "New California" due to it's self entitlement attitudes by the left powers.

The one hope is that this piece of legislation is written in such a way to make it seem somewhat benine and therefor allowing it to be passed in order to appease We The People without any specific giving of rights back to us.

Legasat
02-08-2011, 8:55 AM
The pendulum seems to be swinging in our direction...slowly

Window_Seat
02-08-2011, 9:01 AM
Everything in CAPS is the proposed addition to the statute (http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2011a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont/15608113E583112C8725781E005F3120?Open&file=1205_01.pdf), and in bold is where I believe that it doesn't cover OOS residents:

5 18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful
6 possession of weapons. (2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant
7 was:
8 (f) A United States probation officer or a United States pretrial
9 services officer while on duty and serving in the state of Colorado under
10 the authority of rules and regulations promulgated by the judicial
11 conference of the United States; OR
(g) A PERSON WHO MAY LEGALLY POSSESS A HANDGUN UNDER THE
13 LAWS OF THIS STATE AND OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE WEAPON
14 INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT WAS A HANDGUN. THE AUTHORITY TO CARRY
15 A CONCEALED HANDGUN PURSUANT TO THE PROVISIONS OF THIS
16 PARAGRAPH (g) IS EQUAL IN ALL RESPECTS TO THE AUTHORITY GRANTED
17 BY A PERMIT TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN AS SPECIFIED IN SECTION
18 18-12-214. A PERSON WHO CARRIES A CONCEALED HANDGUN PURSUANT
19 TO THE PROVISIONS OF THIS PARAGRAPH (g) HAS THE SAME RIGHTS AND IS
20 SUBJECT TO THE SAME LIMITATIONS SPECIFIED IN SECTION 18-12-214 AS
21 APPLY TO A PERSON WHO HOLDS A PERMIT TO CARRY A CONCEALED
22 HANDGUN.

Erik.

Connor P Price
02-08-2011, 11:00 AM
I don't see this bill as excluding out of staters at all. As long as you can legally possess a handgun, your good to go, which does not require residence. Also, the bit about reciprocity I take to mean it wont effect colorado resident permit holders reciprocity with other states, not meaning that it won't change our reciprocity with them.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2011, 11:03 AM
If I can possess a handgun under the laws of the State of Colorado (which is the case, I can possess a handgun generally under state law). I would be covered by this law. My case is because of the confluence of Colorado and Denver law, as described by the Meyer decision.

Ape
02-08-2011, 11:07 AM
My case is because of the confluence of Colorado and Denver law, as described by the Meyer decision.
And that's exactly what I was talking about earlier with the medical marijuana laws. They tried enacting "home rule" laws which were shot down by higher courts. Yet they still ignore those laws in favor of their own self serving interests by the left in power.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2011, 11:54 AM
And that's exactly what I was talking about earlier with the medical marijuana laws. They tried enacting "home rule" laws which were shot down by higher courts. Yet they still ignore those laws in favor of their own self serving interests by the left in power.

Stop making this a "left" issue. Denver thinks they can ban OC. They are anti-gunners.

Ape
02-08-2011, 12:15 PM
Stop making this a "left" issue. Denver thinks they can ban OC. They are anti-gunners.

:confused:

Well until joining this forum I've never in my life encountered someone right leaning that was truly anti gun. And conversly, I've never met a left leaning person who was truly dedicated towards holding the constitution for it's word. So how is the fact that Denver is inundated with left leaning voters and politicians not related towards them being anti gunners????

Gray Peterson
02-08-2011, 12:22 PM
:confused:

Well until joining this forum I've never in my life encountered someone right leaning that was truly anti gun.

In California, our biggest opponents to the RKBA are the sheriff's. Several bay area county sheriff's are "law and order" conservative Republicans. Smith of Santa Clara, Ahern of Alameda, Christianson of Contra Costa, Gore of San Diego. All conservatives, all Republicans, and they all hate the idea of the "normal person" carrying.

And conversly, I've never met a left leaning person who was truly dedicated towards holding the constitution for it's word.

Hi, my name is Gray. Nice to meet you.

Ape
02-08-2011, 12:43 PM
In California, our biggest opponents to the RKBA are the sheriff's. Several bay area county sheriff's are "law and order" conservative Republicans. Smith of Santa Clara, Ahern of Alameda, Christianson of Contra Costa, Gore of San Diego. All conservatives, all Republicans, and they all hate the idea of the "normal person" carrying.

Well there are many sheriffs all over the country pulling that type of political wrangling. That's nothing more than a political office where pandering occurs to the perceived powers regularly. I don't consider that someone who's "right leaning" in it's truest sense.

Hi, my name is Gray. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you Gray ;)
No offense, but since I don't truly know you I can't say as I can take your word as to holding the constitution (in it's entirety and honest intent) for it's intended design and format.
But it is California and nuttier things happen there every day! ;) lol

PsychGuy274
02-08-2011, 12:48 PM
:confused:

Well until joining this forum I've never in my life encountered someone right leaning that was truly anti gun. And conversly, I've never met a left leaning person who was truly dedicated towards holding the constitution for it's word. So how is the fact that Denver is inundated with left leaning voters and politicians not related towards them being anti gunners????

I have met several on both sides.

The 2nd Amendment has crossed party lines some time ago, believe it or not.

Ape
02-08-2011, 1:05 PM
I have met several on both sides.

The 2nd Amendment has crossed party lines some time ago, believe it or not.

No arguments here...I have a couple of friends who vote Dem but believe in gun rights (to a degree). And I know some right leaning people who aren't completely entrenched in 2A affairs. But that wasn't my point. My point was someone who's "truly left minded" that believes in the Constitution in it's entirety word for word has yet to cross my path for verification.
The ideals in general tell me it's not possible IMO.

J.D.Allen
02-08-2011, 1:20 PM
Nice to meet you Gray ;)
No offense, but since I don't truly know you I can't say as I can take your word as to holding the constitution (in it's entirety and honest intent) for it's intended design and format.


Hard to imagine you having been a member here since June and not knowing who Gray is...he's really not a secret around here and he is among many liberals here who are truly heroes in the fight for our 2A rights. He is one of the most staunch and knowledgeable 2A supporters. He also happens to be directly involved in the 2A fight in YOUR beautiful state.

But it is California and nuttier things happen there every day! ;) lol

Umm, BTW...he doesn't live in California.

Ape
02-08-2011, 1:50 PM
Hard to imagine you having been a member here since June and not knowing who Gray is...he's really not a secret around here and he is among many liberals here who are truly heroes in the fight for our 2A rights. He is one of the most staunch and knowledgeable 2A supporters. He also happens to be directly involved in the 2A fight in YOUR beautiful state.


Well I contribute to forums and get to know peoples stances on many things. But I never "truly" meet anyone while doing so. ;)
But on the other hand, I have met many people from many different forums and made life long friends after I got to know them. ;)

Window_Seat
03-02-2011, 2:09 PM
From RMGO in email today:

3/2/2011


We aren’t done, but I’ve got some good news for you.

The first phase of passing Constitutional Carry through the Colorado State House was accomplished this morning. House members agreed to move this common-sense legislation forward by a vote of 40 to 25 (we'll post this vote when it becomes available on our website).

Colorado House Passes Constitutional Carry 40 to 25 (http://www.rmgo.org/)

Could we be just a few more steps closer to seeing Peterson mooted by this?

ETA: Again, it's important to remember that the Colorado Senate & Gov. is NOT friendly to RKBA (according to RMGO).

Erik.

Ape
03-02-2011, 2:20 PM
I just saw that email too. And Dudley is correct about the Colorado Govt. The main contingent is in Denver which has been (and still is) notoriously Liberal is very anti Constitutional.

Funny thing is most of the rest of the state is conservative. So it makes it difficult to pass common sense legislation at times.

I still don't believe this will go the distance this time around. But it sets the ground for finishing the fight in the long run IMO.
IIRC the "Shall Issue" legislation took approximately 4 years before we got it finalized.

nicki
03-02-2011, 2:31 PM
It doesn't matter if someone is Right or Left, what matters is do they support the values as espoused in the Declaration of Independence that we all have inalienable rights given to us from our creator, that among those rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, that government derives it's authority from the consent of the governed and that if the government becomes destructive to our rights, that we not only have the right, but the duty to change things.

The first amendment recognizes our peaceful political rights to make change and the second amendment is our doomsday amendment to use force to take out a "criminally controlled government" if needed.

If those are your values, then you are trully an American.

If you are hostile to those values, you may be born here, but in my view your are an AINO(American in Name Only).

Many are what I call NASIes(Nanny Authoritarian Statist Idiots) who seek to use the government to control your life.

So called social conservatives want the government to control your personal behavior,

So called progressives want the government to control your economic behavior.

To me, it doesn' matter if you are a Left or Right winger if you are a NASI.
If you are a NASI, by default you are a AINO as well.

So decide, are you an American or are you a AINO NASI.

You can't have freedom if you attack the freedoms of your fellow citizens.
Of course with Freedom comes responsiblity for your actions, they go hand in hand.

Nuff said

Nicki

Ape
03-02-2011, 2:39 PM
:confused: ???????????????
And that was pertinent to this thread about Constitutional Carry how???
Just because of my comment about Denver politicians being predominantly left leaning? If you re-read that you'll notice I also said they are notoriously anti Constitutional. Not to mention my view of left vs right was already discussed a bit earlier in this thread.

But I am in agreement that the terms are irrelevant to a degree. If either side is more concerned about control rather than the Constitution then I could care less about them.

ALSystems
03-02-2011, 6:25 PM
If you are hostile to those values, you may be born here, but in my view your are an AINO(American in Name Only).

Many are what I call NASIes(Nanny Authoritarian Statist Idiots) who seek to use the government to control your life.

So called social conservatives want the government to control your personal behavior,

So called progressives want the government to control your economic behavior.

To me, it doesn' matter if you are a Left or Right winger if you are a NASI.
If you are a NASI, by default you are a AINO as well.

So decide, are you an American or are you a AINO NASI.

Interesting analysis :cool:
We'll have to add these to the abbreviation list

GearHead
03-03-2011, 12:19 AM
From RMGO in email today:



Colorado House Passes Constitutional Carry 40 to 25 (http://www.rmgo.org/)

Could we be just a few more steps closer to seeing Peterson mooted by this?

ETA: Again, it's important to remember that the Colorado Senate & Gov. is NOT friendly to RKBA (according to RMGO).

Erik.

Yeah, as was stated earlier in this thread, this bill is DOA as far as getting Hickenlooper's signature. That man is nuttier than squirrel ****. Thankfully the insanity is mostly limited to Denver County, but I fear without enough forward momentum that kinda stuff could eventually move to the state as a whole.

I voted for Tancredo.

Ape
03-03-2011, 9:43 AM
Yeah, as was stated earlier in this thread, this bill is DOA as far as getting Hickenlooper's signature. That man is nuttier than squirrel ****. Thankfully the insanity is mostly limited to Denver County, but I fear without enough forward momentum that kinda stuff could eventually move to the state as a whole.
Couldn't agree more! :thumbsup:


I voted for Tancredo.
As did I! I even met him at a local gun shop for some PR stuff he was doing. And while there I wrote a check for a politician for the very first time in my life.
I'm still shocked as to the outcome of the voting results. :(
I also voted for Ken Buck and he missed giving us some good things by a very small margin.

J.D.Allen
03-03-2011, 10:21 AM
Umm...guys? This is Calguns...not Colguns;)
:hide:

Ape
03-03-2011, 10:33 AM
Umm...guys? This is Calguns...not Colguns;)
:hide:

True.....But don't Californians want to keep their eyes on the rest of the nation? ;)

safewaysecurity
03-03-2011, 10:39 AM
Is the governor anti?

Gray Peterson
03-03-2011, 10:48 AM
Is the governor anti?

He was anti when he was mayor of Denver, Colorado. Now? We'll see won't we.

IGOTDIRT4U
03-03-2011, 12:24 PM
He was anti when he was mayor of Denver, Colorado. Now? We'll see won't we.

So, it's your typical "the most populated areas control the rest of the state" situation, eh? And it just happens to be that in most states the most populated areas are also the most liberal, containing a large enough anti-gunnies to control the freedoms of those that do 'gun'.

Ape
03-03-2011, 12:31 PM
Actually, I just read an article that put Denver county as 2nd in population by the Census. But for all intents and purposes....Yes that's basically what happens in Denver politics.
IMO the problem is Denver is a big city and polulated with lots of artsy liberal types, along with a lot of immigrants and low income people looking for entitlement expansion.

FreshTapCoke
03-03-2011, 12:47 PM
not knowing who Gray is...


Umm, BTW...he doesn't live in California.

Wow, I did not even catch that until this thread. As a California resident, I'm ashamed. I'm immediately signing up for monthly CGN donation payments.

Thank you for all of your work, Gray!

wildhawker
03-03-2011, 1:26 PM
Wow, I did not even catch that until this thread. As a California resident, I'm ashamed. I'm immediately signing up for monthly CGN donation payments.

Thank you for all of your work, Gray!

Gray kicks serious ***. To say he's instrumental to our cause would be an understatement. I'm also proud to call him my friend.

Thank you for your commitment of regular donations - we're working hard to turn your dollars into real wins for California gun owners, and we really appreciate everyone's trust and support.

-Brandon

FreshTapCoke
03-03-2011, 3:32 PM
Gray kicks serious ***.

Thank you for your commitment of regular donations
-Brandon

You guys are most welcome. I never imagined what CGF is doing for us was even possible in this state.

(Whoops, I meant CGF above, but to think about it, CGN serves as our rallying point. Time to sign up as a CGN contributor too. :D)

GearHead
03-03-2011, 7:30 PM
Actually, I just read an article that put Denver county as 2nd in population by the Census. But for all intents and purposes....Yes that's basically what happens in Denver politics.
IMO the problem is Denver is a big city and polulated with lots of artsy liberal types, along with a lot of immigrants and low income people looking for entitlement expansion.

Thankfully we will never face the same statewide encroachment as CA. Or so I hope. I would think there are enough gun owners in CO outside of Denver that would raise a serious stink if anything went down outside the county limit sign.

Ape
03-03-2011, 9:52 PM
Eh.....If there's anything I've learned over the years about politics, it's to never say never about the nefariousness of backroom dealings.
I'd like to think we'd (Colorado) never have as many infringments as Cali's been dealing with, but I certainly wont get complacent about it either. Gotta stay ever vigilent. ;)

We have Dudley Brown/RMGO battling for us here luckily. He's an ardent fighter of 2A rights in the political and legal arena, even though he can be a bit bull headed and single minded about the NRA and funding. :-/