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View Full Version : Are teflon coated bullets actually armor piercing?


Greg F.
02-07-2011, 6:29 PM
I was watching one of my favorite movies (Ronin) last night and in one scene Deniro gets shot and the bullet goes through his bullet-proof vest. When he goes to remove it he notices that the bullet has a teflon coating on it and deduces that that's why it went through his vest. Will coating a bullet with teflon actually work to make a bullet capable of penetrating a vest? What kind of Teflon would you use? Apparently the type of teflon that they use on cooking pans isn't available for sale in the U.S. anymore. I doubt a lube with teflon, like you use on bike chains would do it, or maybe I'm wrong? So what do you guys think?

armygunsmith
02-07-2011, 6:40 PM
No, Teflon does not make a bullet armor piercing. It's a common misconception.

rromeo
02-07-2011, 6:56 PM
As I was told, armor piercing bullets are hard, so the Teflon reduces barrel wear.

gbp
02-07-2011, 7:13 PM
would it hurt more if i hit you with a Teflon coated pan or a cast iron skillet?

leelaw
02-07-2011, 7:18 PM
Yes and no.

Teflon by itself does not cause the bullet to penetrate armor.

However, many moons ago, there were armor penetrating (designed for actually penetrating windshields, if I remember correctly) projectiles which required the use of a coating in order to not cause accelerated wear on the barrel. The coating was also used to cause reliable feeding into the chamber.

So the end answer is "no, teflon does not make a bullet penetrate armor, but some armor penetrating projectiles are teflon coated"

bcrich
02-07-2011, 7:29 PM
would it hurt more if i hit you with a Teflon coated pan or a cast iron skillet?

That's a good one!

Mail Clerk
02-07-2011, 7:32 PM
I heard 22's can penetrate the body armor cuz it slips through the webbing of the vest. because of this I wonder if the 17HMR will do just as good.

Mail Clerk

Remus
02-07-2011, 7:38 PM
A 22 penetrating body armor has been tested on the box of truth, see the link below.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot15.htm

Dr Rockso
02-07-2011, 7:47 PM
To answer the question, no, teflon won't make handgun bullets penetrate body armor. The myth seems to stem from KTW ammunition (http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VG2.html), which was made of much harder metals than typical lead and copper, and used a teflon coating to reduce barrel wear.

I heard 22's can penetrate the body armor cuz it slips through the webbing of the vest. because of this I wonder if the 17HMR will do just as good.

Mail Clerk

Another myth. Here are the NIJ standards (http://www.10-32supply.com/duty%20gear/hardarmor/nijthreat.htm) for vests, .22LR gets stopped by level I and .22 mag by level IIA...most PDs issue IIIA, which will definitely stop it.

I started a thread a week or so back to try and find as much data as possible on armor piercing handgun ammo. After spending a few days researching it, as far as I can tell nobody has ever been wounded by it, and certainly nobody has been killed as a result of having AP handgun ammo penetrate their vest.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=390131

TKM
02-07-2011, 8:01 PM
Go find a spent round and deduce what kind of coating it has on it.

Neuvik
02-07-2011, 8:03 PM
As mentioned teflon doesn't really make a round a penetrator, it acts as a lubricant reducing wear for dense rounds such as steel, or bronze. There will be some increase in velocity due to the reduced friction, but wether thats enough to allow a particular round to penetrate armor is mainly due to the armor, and bullet type.

Teflon is brand name from Du-Point, you can find equivalents made from various vendors.

Dannicus
02-07-2011, 8:04 PM
A 22 penetrating body armor has been tested on the box of truth, see the link below.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot15.htm

That's a flak vest. Not body armor. It's just stacked aramid, no kevlar. Only meant to reduce injury from shell fragments.

Greg F.
02-07-2011, 8:13 PM
Thanks guys. I'm not really surprised at the responses. I figured it was probably just a myth like the Black Talons being armor piercing. AFAIK the only thing sure to penetrate a vest would be steel core ammo. I guess this movie is just more of Hollywoods make believe (FUD) when it comes to guns.

old-trapper
02-07-2011, 8:14 PM
The "cop killers" that were banned years ago were very, light, fast, hard, radically cone shaped and yes coated with a hard slick green substance. Ironically the only guys I ever saw that had them were cops. The stated reason was to defeat felons wearing armor.

here is a link to the ones I saw years ago...

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VG2.html

Interloper
02-07-2011, 8:30 PM
Go find a spent round and deduce what kind of coating it has on it.

Good answer.

FLIGHT762
02-07-2011, 8:56 PM
All of this Teflon stuff was due to KTW bullets using a teflon coating to their sintered bronze bullets. The teflon just prevented barrel wear. The hard bronze bullet penetrated the average body armor worn by L/E at the time. Teflon had nothing to do with it. Just and old urban legend that gets repeated in movies and the media. I shot a number of the different KTW ammunition available in the 70's before it was banned.

Some of the most ballistic vest penetrating rounds have been the 9MM in the WWII German jacketed sintered steel core, Russian steel core and Finnish "VPT"headstamp 9 MM ammo. Ballistic vests are penetrated by one of two things or both; Velocity and hard materials used in the bullet.

Nothing is bullet proof. There is a round somewhere that will defeat it. Look at all of the ammunition types used to penetrate main battle Tanks.

1911su16b870
02-07-2011, 11:04 PM
I sprayed my 556 rounds with teflon spray and they went right through the test vest at the range :D

bigboy
02-07-2011, 11:19 PM
I sprayed my 556 rounds with teflon spray and they went right through the test vest at the range :D

not for me, sprayed my 40mm with teflon and i think it didint get through but i cant find my vest anywhere..:D jk jk

Cali-Shooter
02-07-2011, 11:20 PM
A big, fat, NO. This is one of the more FUDtastic myths that anti's love to peddle like cheap manufactured goods from China.

bigboy
02-07-2011, 11:22 PM
A big, fat, NO. This is one of the more FUDtastic myths that anti's love to peddle like cheap manufactured goods from China.

+++++1

jeff762
02-08-2011, 5:53 PM
I was watching one of my favorite movies (Ronin) last night and in one scene Deniro gets shot and the bullet goes through his bullet-proof vest. When he goes to remove it he notices that the bullet has a teflon coating on it and deduces that that's why it went through his vest. Will coating a bullet with teflon actually work to make a bullet capable of penetrating a vest? What kind of Teflon would you use? Apparently the type of teflon that they use on cooking pans isn't available for sale in the U.S. anymore. I doubt a lube with teflon, like you use on bike chains would do it, or maybe I'm wrong? So what do you guys think?

i think you should apply for a federal grant to see if putting teflon on bullets will allow them to penetrate bulletproof vests.

Greg F.
02-08-2011, 7:34 PM
The government sure loves to waste money, maybe i should look into it, they just might go for it.

Mail Clerk
02-08-2011, 7:49 PM
I sprayed my 556 rounds with teflon spray and they went right through the test vest at the range :D

No need to spray teflon on rifle rounds! The velocity of the bullet will go right through most if not all bullet vests like butter. This much I'm pretty sure of. Don't think so..... try a 30-06 round against any vest and I'm sure firmly penetration is insured.

Mail Clerk

m98
02-08-2011, 7:55 PM
Oh yes teflon bullets are in fact armor piercing cop killer bullets. Just ask your local news station on their expertise in firearms ballistic. They'll tell you its illegal and kills cops.

Rob454
02-08-2011, 8:29 PM
would it hurt more if i hit you with a Teflon coated pan or a cast iron skillet?

Both traveling in the same arc at the same speed the cast iron would hurt more.

C.W.M.V.
02-08-2011, 9:26 PM
Only AP rounds we really messed with had internal penetrators, the coating has very little to do with the tungsten arrow in the center of the bullet.

pyromensch
02-08-2011, 10:05 PM
Both traveling in the same arc at the same speed the cast iron would hurt more.

depends on the thickness of the skull, cast iron, might crack and shatter, while the teflon coated, will usually dent. allowing the ability to repeatedly strike.

supersonic
02-09-2011, 10:58 AM
I remember the line going something like "It went right through my vest. He sprayed it with Teflon..."...As much of a fan I am of this movie, I am very disappointed at how big of a FAIL that whole part was.:sleeping:

Moto4Fun
02-09-2011, 7:34 PM
Producers should run their scripts by CG before final editing so we can make movies more realistic.

Then again real kills are probably like real sex, people wouldn't want to watch.

Moto4Fun
02-09-2011, 7:36 PM
Oh yeah, and teflon coated bullets are harder to catch between your teeth, so I would recommend against that trick with Teflon coated bullets.

ElvenSoul
02-09-2011, 7:47 PM
But hey it's a 5.7....so much FUD on what will penetrate a vest.... 7.62x51 even if it does not penetrate...they will not be in action anymore.

ysr_racer
02-09-2011, 7:53 PM
Use this, it works just as well :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3341/3443085090_a5ef06e1d6_z.jpg

m98
02-10-2011, 6:06 PM
Use this, it works just as well :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3341/3443085090_a5ef06e1d6_z.jpg


Good idea. That means the pam coated bullets would kill and Cook whatever it touches.
Zombies: "uummm, cooked brains. No more sickness from eating raw"

ROTC sniper
02-10-2011, 7:23 PM
would it hurt more if i hit you with a Teflon coated pan or a cast iron skillet?

:rofl2:

cdtx2001
02-11-2011, 8:42 PM
What if we coated bullets with bulls**t? I bet they'd go through anything.

locosway
02-12-2011, 12:12 AM
n the 1960s, Paul Kopsch (an Ohio coroner), Daniel Turcos (a police sergeant), and Donald Ward (Kopsch's special investigator), began experimenting with special purpose handgun ammunition. Their objective was to develop a law enforcement round capable of improved penetration against hard targets, such as windshield glass and automobile doors. Conventional bullets, made primarily from lead, often become deformed and less effective after striking hard targets, especially when fired at handgun velocities. The inventors named their company "KTW," after their initials.
After some experimentation with steel rounds, the officers settled on a tungsten core. Unlike lead, which is relatively malleable, tungsten wore out barrels far more quickly than normal jacketed rounds, since the tungsten did not reform to fit the rifling. This is one reason the bullets were then coated with a layer of Teflon to reduce barrel wear. The inventors had also noted that canes were frequently tipped with the relatively soft Teflon to help them grip surfaces. They expected that coating the bullets with Teflon would reduce dangerous ricochets when fired through vehicle doors and windows.[1]
In 1982, NBC ran a special on the bullets (against the requests from many police organizations) and argued that the bullets were a threat to police. Gun control organizations in the U.S. labeled Teflon-coated bullets "cop killers" because of the supposedly increased penetration the bullets offered against ballistic vests, a staple of the American police uniform.

This is from wikipedia and sounds reasonable.

appagohm
02-12-2011, 4:23 AM
the real fn 5.7 will go through armor. But who needs those rounds anyways. Just learn to aim.

locosway
02-12-2011, 4:25 AM
I am for the head.

I'm sure you use one of these, right?

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/tacticool-machine-pistol-500x250.jpg

m98
02-12-2011, 8:06 AM
I'm sure you use one of these, right?

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/tacticool-machine-pistol-500x250.jpg


Where's the satelite controlled radar guided auto aiming smartphone activated infared antenna dish laser scope?