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View Full Version : Can a cop buy a non roster handgun then sell to a friend?


tpliquid1
02-07-2011, 4:21 PM
Can a cop buy a non roster handgun. Use it for 1 day decide they don't like it and then sell it to a friend via PPT?

Crom
02-07-2011, 4:22 PM
Yes.

bwiese
02-07-2011, 4:26 PM
Yes, but...



If the cop gets bored with/tires of/doesn't like the handgun, he is free to PPT
it to a friend or put it on consignment. He shouldn't do this too often, either.
.
If the cop buys the gun with the intention of selling it, that starts smelling bad
(to his workplace mgmt too). If he buys it w/money from someone else who
actually wants the gun, there are 'straw purchase' issues. [This seems to have
occurred with some CA cops helping out non-lineal family members or buddies
get certain guns.]
.
Aggressive CA FFLs intelligently and legally using the single-shot exemption (thru
either a non-CA supplier or using their 07FFL) should make such 'getting a gun
thru a cop' issues moot.

bbbppc
02-07-2011, 4:32 PM
I still cant understand why leo can buy non rostered guns aren't those UNSAFE??

Werewolf1021
02-07-2011, 4:32 PM
Yes. Police can buy "unsafe" handguns from off the roster and sell them if they do not like them.

ke6guj
02-07-2011, 4:35 PM
I still cant understand why leo can buy non rostered guns aren't those UNSAFE??
they can buy unsafe handguns because they were specifically exempted from the law by the writers of the law.

stix213
02-07-2011, 5:21 PM
Can a cop buy a non roster handgun. Use it for 1 day decide they don't like it and then sell it to a friend via PPT?

They don't even have to use it for that 1 day.

dantodd
02-07-2011, 5:33 PM
Bill summed it up quite nicely.

If the cop uses his buddy's money it is likely to be considered a straw purchase.

If he buys the gun specifically planning to transfer it to his buddy it might violate CA law preventing a transfer to circumvent any portion if the pc. (sorry I don't have the cite)

If he buys it for any other purpose, collecting, investment, carry etc. he is then free to sell to whomever he chooses.

BKinzey
02-07-2011, 5:37 PM
I still cant understand why leo can buy non rostered guns aren't those UNSAFE??

Non rostered guns aren't unsafe and rostered guns aren't safe. Rostered guns are ruled as "not unsafe." It's a legal word game.

mdouglas1980
02-07-2011, 5:40 PM
or if the LEO buys it intending it to be a gift as well.

The only thing about the 07 converting to single shot is that the price seems to go up. I was looking at a couple revolvers that aren't on the list and having them converted to single action and it all adds up pretty quickly: price of the gun, DROS, Tax, gun smith fee, etc....

gbp
02-07-2011, 6:17 PM
happens alllll the time

OBEY PROPAGANDA
02-07-2011, 6:28 PM
of course they can- have you ever heard of a police officer being arrested for a straw purchase in CA? No you have not.

Nothing other than another tactic encouraging the attitude from police officers that they are in charge of you, are better than you, smarter than you, safer than you, and can do what they want to you.

I believe most police do not care if your handgun has a loaded chamber indicator, but they like the fact that they can do things you can not.



Aggressive CA FFLs intelligently and legally using the single-shot exemption (thru
either a non-CA supplier or using their 07FFL) should make such 'getting a gun
thru a cop' issues moot.
[/LIST]

this is why the "list" is complete BS.

snobord99
02-07-2011, 6:35 PM
of course they can- have you ever heard of a police officer being arrested for a straw purchase in CA? No you have not.

Nothing other than another tactic encouraging the attitude from police officers that they are in charge of you, are better than you, smarter than you, safer than you, and can do what they want to you.

I believe most police do not care if your handgun has a loaded chamber indicator, but they like the fact that they can do things you can not.

this is why the "list" is complete BS.

The fact that no LEO has been prosecuted for a straw purchase (that we know of) is not indicative of its legality. There's a difference between not being caught and having nothing to be caught for.

gbp
02-07-2011, 7:20 PM
there is also a difference between being an "entitled one" as compared to a normal human being who does not have the same rights

Hopalong
02-07-2011, 7:21 PM
This loophole of cronyism and nepotism really sticks in my craw.

It stinks.

There was a thread in another forum regarding this same matter, except for an inter family transfer.

A LEO shouldn't be asked, and it shouldn't be granted.

It shouldn't be done. Period.

And my view is not based on legality, it's based on honor and integrity.

OBEY PROPAGANDA
02-07-2011, 7:26 PM
The fact that no LEO has been prosecuted for a straw purchase (that we know of) is not indicative of its legality. There's a difference between not being caught and having nothing to be caught for.

I missed your point.

please clarify or put more space between your lines so I can read what is in there...

snobord99
02-07-2011, 7:31 PM
I missed your point.

please clarify or put more space between your lines so I can read what is in there...

I just meant to say that LEO can still commit a straw purchase. Your argument seemed to be that since we don't know of any who have been prosecuted for it, then it must be legal. I was just pointing out that this isn't true.

The OP's scenario isn't a straw purchase since the LEO in that scenario legitimately purchased the firearm for themselves initially. It would be different if they purchased it with the intent to transfer it to the friend from the get-go.

OBEY PROPAGANDA
02-07-2011, 7:40 PM
sorry if I was vague

I am saying the safe handgun list is bs. We should all be able to buy the same guns.

I am also saying I believe police officers are smart enough to understand that the features required and fees required for a gun manufacturer to submit a gun for testing in order to be on the list are bs as these things do not create a safer gun.

I am also saying "things like the list" create an environment that encourages an US - vs - Them attitude as opposed to a protect and serve attitude among police.

I am also supporting what bwiese said about single shot conversions and the applicable "loophole"

Hopalong
02-07-2011, 7:54 PM
Although the single shot conversion may be a loophole

The extra time and money bothers me, and it's not because I'm broke.

As does the whole "loophole" concept.

I'll do without, until the law changes, or I happen to see something I like and want on consignment somewhere.

Which is very unlikely.

Sgt5811
02-07-2011, 9:26 PM
I wonder if this is an argument against the roster in the pending case? Are LEO's better equipped to handle the consequences arising from the use of a non- rostered "unsafe" handguns, than ordinary citizens, or even better; military members that have and continue to use these weapons much more proficiently than those LEO's? Last time I checked, there are entire units of Marines and soldiers(capitalized and not capitalized on purpose) that have effectively utilized their weapons, however at least 95% of all LEO's will never do the same. I guess it's a one time deal. Maybe there should be a law that says "if an individual uses a firearm regardless of legality, to negate a threat, that individual shall be prohibited from purchasing a handgun not on the safe handgun roster for life."

Sgt5811
02-07-2011, 9:32 PM
Legislature is to blame and sheeople are to blame for electing the legislature. LE has nothing to do with this. If only the this state could just come out and say "we need money" and stop bs'ing their way to get it, we could probably come to some form of agreement. Quit mislabeling your fees for imaginary reasons and call it what it is. We'll call it the firearms importation tax.

Sgt5811
02-07-2011, 9:33 PM
-End rant-

ErikTheRed
02-08-2011, 3:41 AM
1. Is it legal for LEO to PPT an off-roster gun to non-LEO? Yes.

2. Is it legal for LEO to purchase a non-roster gun with specific prior intent to PPT to non-LEO? No.

3. Is there any real way to prove that #2 actually occured unless the LEO or non-LEO freely admits to it like a moron? No.

4. Is the roster and all related legislation a completely corrupt extorsion scam perpetrated by the left-wing anti-gun establishment in California? Yes.

mtl
03-22-2011, 10:38 PM
Can active duty military personal transfer via PPT an "off roster" handgun the same way an LEO can?

ke6guj
03-22-2011, 10:44 PM
Can active duty military personal transfer via PPT an "off roster" handgun the same way an LEO can?

yes, .mil personel can PPT any off-roster they might own, just like a LEO can, and just like Joe Public can.

mtl
03-22-2011, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the quick reply!

ldivinag
03-23-2011, 12:06 AM
I still cant understand why leo can buy non rostered guns aren't those UNSAFE??

dont you get it yet... according to politicians, cops are super humans. regular physics dont apply to them...

[/sarcasm]

Sutcliffe
03-23-2011, 6:22 AM
Yes. Police can buy "unsafe" handguns from off the roster and sell them if they do not like them.

I'd like to bottle that, wrap it in the Bill Or Rights and cram it down the throats of whatever idiots in our legislature that made this into law.

Andy Taylor
03-23-2011, 7:28 AM
I have a few friends who are LEOs. I would not ask them to do this for me because I would not want to put them in the possition of facing a possible investigation etc.

Ubermcoupe
03-23-2011, 2:39 PM
I still cant understand why leo can buy non rostered guns aren't those UNSAFE??
:D I agree!!!

However I believe the spirit of the law (yes yes I know who's exempted and its obvious favoritism) was so that those that can easily obtain a CCW (READ: not Joe citizen) will not be restricted from purchasing a "concealable" weapon to use with said CCW...

however all these laws continue to boggle my mind...
:confused::confused::confused:

bwiese
03-23-2011, 2:43 PM
Can a cop buy a non roster handgun. Use it for 1 day decide they don't like it and then sell it to a friend via PPT?

Yes.

But it should not look like he did this just to 'flip'. I am confident such 'flipping' situations are being examined by ATF/DOJ, esp some of the obvious sales forum activity here during the Great Obama Gun Panic in late 2008-10.

However, if the cop tires of the gun or doesn't like the way it shoots, he can PPT it. The cop should not repeatedly do this either (see warning above).

Given the single-shot exemption, that's probably the preferable way - use a skilled FFL using a clean path.

ke6guj
03-24-2011, 12:29 AM
I have a few friends who are LEOs. I would not ask them to do this for me because I would not want to put them in the possition of facing a possible investigation etc.

exactly. However, there is nothing wrong with telling them tht if they buy an off-roster handgun and decide that they don't like it, that you would like first dibs on buying it :D

Falconis
03-24-2011, 1:13 AM
I'd like to bottle that, wrap it in the Bill Or Rights and cram it down the throats of whatever idiots in our legislature that made this into law.

Thank you for recognizing the source of that asinine law.

dont you get it yet... according to politicians, cops are super humans. regular physics dont apply to them...

And thank you for recognizing and appreciating that common belief :D. On a serious note, I think the legislature did that to sidestep serious opposition to this bill they wanted passed. Even if it is a neutered form from what they initially envisioned. Legislatures have no more love for cops, unless politically beneficial, than your average person getting a traffic ticket. That's on a good day too.

cruising7388
03-24-2011, 11:34 AM
The fact that no LEO has been prosecuted for a straw purchase (that we know of) is not indicative of its legality. There's a difference between not being caught and having nothing to be caught for.

Well said. The fact that an illegal act is practically unenforceable does not make the act legal.

cruising7388
03-24-2011, 11:40 AM
This loophole of cronyism and nepotism really sticks in my craw.

It stinks.

There was a thread in another forum regarding this same matter, except for an inter family transfer.

A LEO shouldn't be asked, and it shouldn't be granted.

It shouldn't be done. Period.

And my view is not based on legality, it's based on honor and integrity.


In addition to jeopardizing career promotions if the firearm is used by the recipient in a crime and the chain of ownership tracks back to the LEO. That is not going to look too good on his or her resume.