PDA

View Full Version : Need Help With Survey So We Can Refute The Anti-Gunners!


oaklander
02-06-2011, 9:08 PM
SURVEY RESULTS ARE IN:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48625827/Informal-Gun-Owners-Survey-2011

OK, I spent some time and wrote a very easy and ANONYMOUS online survey. I would like some hard data to show anti-gunners that we are not what the media portrays us as.

In other words, we are not all "white hillbillies" (even though I am, and darn proud of it!!!).

:D

The survey will take you about two minutes to complete, and did I say it was anonymous?

If I can get around 590 responses, then the confidence level of the survey will be around 95 percent, based on the survey population.

The survey is here: http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=IJKDFL_6919a5f7 - and if you take it - you can see the responses so far. Once I get enough responses, I will close it, and do some math to show interesting correlations, and fun stuff like that!

I'm such a geek sometimes - but it IS a fast and fun survey - so please take it if you have a few minutes.

Thanks!!!

Oak

cindynles
02-06-2011, 9:15 PM
Done.....Do we have to wait "two weeks" for the final results?????

oaklander
02-06-2011, 9:16 PM
LOL - I'm hoping that we can get 590 results in a week!!!! I am super excited to see what comes out of it!!!

:43:

Done.....Do we have to wait "two weeks" for the final results?????

nick
02-06-2011, 9:17 PM
Internet survey = inconclusive results regardless of the sample size.

soopafly
02-06-2011, 9:17 PM
Is there way of see current poll results? I closed the window and when I try to go back I get a message saying that I can only view the survey once from the same IP address.

Cali-Shooter
02-06-2011, 9:20 PM
Polled. I use SurveyMonkey for my research surveys.

oaklander
02-06-2011, 9:23 PM
The last question is a "control question" BTW. If you know what those are, you know why I did it and why I used that question.

Yes, I am smart like that.

:chris:

oaklander
02-06-2011, 9:24 PM
Let me let it run for a few hours - right now, there's only about 10 responses.

BUT - I can already tell you that we are wealthier and better educated, and more moderate than most people in the state.

Is there way of see current poll results? I closed the window and when I try to go back I get a message saying that I can only view the survey once from the same IP address.

oaklander
02-06-2011, 9:25 PM
Internet opinion = half-baked personal opinion, regardless of the math involved.

:cool:

Internet survey = inconclusive results regardless of the sample size.

96232
02-06-2011, 9:28 PM
I did the survey, but you realize that by linking it to a gun enthusiast site that promotes responsible and mature gun ownership that the results are going to show one way and therefore will be biased

SoCal Bob
02-06-2011, 9:28 PM
No pickup but I did take the survey.

DannyInSoCal
02-06-2011, 9:33 PM
You should add a bracket for $150k/$200k/$250k+

The median income in SoCal is $93k.....

oaklander
02-06-2011, 9:35 PM
Yes, there's no way to poll the mass of gun owners without using phone landlines - but the problem is that fewer and fewer people use landlines. That would skew the demographic older (since it's generally older people who keep landlines).

No matter what, the survey will reflect the sample chosen.

There is simply no way, these days, to get a "perfect" sample. BUT - the data is still useful, especially the correlations between certain data points.

For example, I would expect to find that people who go to church more often will probably be more likely to be against abortion.

THAT is the stuff I am looking for - it's not as basic as it appears.

I did the survey, but you realize that by linking it to a gun enthusiast site that promotes responsible and mature gun ownership that the results are going to show one way and therefore will be biased

oaklander
02-06-2011, 9:36 PM
For PR purposes, the distinctions between various levels of six figure incomes are moot.

You should add a bracket for $150k/$200k/$250k+

The median income in SoCal is $93k.....

Lone_Gunman
02-06-2011, 9:40 PM
Done.

383green
02-06-2011, 9:42 PM
I'm surprised by how many people failed the control question. :whistling:

$P-Ritch$
02-06-2011, 9:52 PM
So far it looks like a lot of us really are white hill billys (80%) :P

Other then that, I was surprised to see that most of us are at either high end or low end of the income bracket. Only a few in the middle ground.

Good survey, I would have recommended a "currently attending college" option for the education section.

InGrAM
02-06-2011, 9:52 PM
Done. This survey will definitely show the whites own firearms and support the 2nd amendment lol.

I don't know if that is a good thing. Kind of fits the anti-gunners stereotype of a crazy white male. LOL!

UGH...... I(white male) am the most persecuted race on earth. For things I had nothing to do with nor was I alive to be associated with.

fiddletown
02-06-2011, 9:59 PM
FWIW, I took it.

oaklander
02-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Thanks folks!

The other way to look at it is that almost 1/4 of us are NOT white. . .

1 in 4 support gay rights.

Almost one third of us have 6 figure incomes.

About 1/3 of us are moderate to liberal. . .

Etc. . .

This is WAY different ALREADY than what the media wants the public to believe!

I'm seeing this as a win so far!!!!!

:D

Thanks also for the feedback on the survey. I forgot how hard they are to write. They are also easy to skew, simply based on wording, and I honestly tried NOT to do that.

maddoggie13
02-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Done...

QQQ
02-06-2011, 10:03 PM
Well it does indicate that 72% of respondents has at least a college degree.

obeygiant
02-06-2011, 10:12 PM
Done, nice that they show you the results at the end of the survey.

Purple K
02-06-2011, 10:13 PM
Number 9 is a trick.... Lol

nick
02-06-2011, 10:15 PM
Internet opinion = half-baked personal opinion, regardless of the math involved.

:cool:

Yeah, it's out there with Internet surveys. Good comeback though :)

BigDogatPlay
02-06-2011, 10:22 PM
Done.

mossy
02-06-2011, 10:22 PM
SWEET you have mixed race as a option, i wish the paperwork would have had this option when i bought a gun.

Paul S
02-06-2011, 10:29 PM
Survey taken.

Control question or no...we all know EVERYTHING runs past the two week mark :p

QQQ
02-06-2011, 10:31 PM
SWEET you have mixed race as a option, i wish the paperwork would have had this option when i bought a gun.

Agreed! Call me a snobby mutt, but I get annoyed when government paperwork refuses to even recognize that 50-50 (and other combinations) people exist. I am equally proud of both sides of my heritage.

oaklander
02-06-2011, 10:44 PM
LOL - yes - I know these things paint with broad and sometimes inaccurate strokes - but it seems like fun anyways!!!

:D

Yeah, it's out there with Internet surveys. Good comeback though :)

snobord99
02-06-2011, 10:47 PM
1 in 4 support gay rights.

Ok, the Asian in me has to point it out :D. I only took a quick glance, but I believe the math here is wrong. I think it's far more than 1 in 4. From the other answers, I reckon there were about 85-90 respondents at the time I saw my results. There were 60+ in support of gay rights. That's closer to 75% than 25%. I believe that the 25% actually indicates percentage of total votes cast for question 8 rather than 25% of respondents. In other words, the way the math is done for questions 1-7 and 9 won't work for question 8.

I tried to go back to check the results to confirm, but it won't allow me to.

QQQ
02-06-2011, 10:52 PM
Ok, the Asian in me has to point it out :D. I only took a quick glance, but I believe the math here is wrong. I think it's far more than 1 in 4. From the other answers, I reckon there were about 85-90 respondents at the time I saw my results. There were 60+ in support of gay rights. That's closer to 75% than 25%. I believe that the 25% actually indicates percentage of total votes cast for question 8 rather than 25% of respondents. In other words, the way the math is done for questions 1-7 and 9 won't work for question 8.

I tried to go back to check the results to confirm, but it won't allow me to.

Maybe some people didn't answer all of the questions.

ponderosa
02-06-2011, 10:54 PM
I don't own a truck but I really want/need one :(

And dang if I got the control right or wrong :shifty:

rabagley
02-06-2011, 10:58 PM
Thanks folks!

The other way to look at it is that almost 1/4 of us are NOT white. . .

1 in 4 support gay rights.



Snobord99 noticed the same thing I did.

Question 8 is putting out bad percentages. I was the 96th person to take it and even though there were 76 people saying gays should have the same rights, the percentage was only labelled 25%.

The actual percentage of calgunners who support gay rights (and who answer online surveys) appears to be closer to 80%.

I think question 8 is trying to divide up all of the votes in the multiple answer question to come up with 100%, but that question isn't seeking an election result.

pbchief2
02-06-2011, 11:01 PM
FWIW, I did my part.

snobord99
02-06-2011, 11:01 PM
Maybe some people didn't answer all of the questions.

I considered that possibility, but I think all but question 8 totaled in the 85-90 responses range whereas question 8 totaled closer to 250. Based on that, I doubt it's because people didn't answer all the questions. It's just not likely that all but one question has a fairly consistent number of respondents due to not everyone answering all the questions. I mean, if 60+ people are for gay rights and that's 25% of the respondents, that means at least 240 respondents. If we had 240 respondents, I highly doubt that all other 8 questions would have a fairly consistent 85-90 responses.

Mimi_T
02-06-2011, 11:02 PM
Done. :) Good luck with the data collecting!

A question about gender might have been interesting too (I was curious about how many of us are women).

stitchnicklas
02-06-2011, 11:03 PM
i did your survey,where is my brownie button?????

Spitfire75
02-06-2011, 11:06 PM
Done!

oaklander
02-06-2011, 11:11 PM
Ooops!

Done. :) Good luck with the data collecting!

A question about gender might have been interesting too (I was curious about how many of us are women).

oaklander
02-06-2011, 11:12 PM
LOL - I probably should have shelled out the money for a "pay" web survey service!!!

:D

Snobord99 noticed the same thing I did.

Question 8 is putting out bad percentages. I was the 96th person to take it and even though there were 76 people saying gays should have the same rights, the percentage was only labelled 25%.

The actual percentage of calgunners who support gay rights (and who answer online surveys) appears to be closer to 80%.

I think question 8 is trying to divide up all of the votes in the multiple answer question to come up with 100%, but that question isn't seeking an election result.

glockwise2000
02-06-2011, 11:13 PM
Done.

I was amazed that all of the people who answered the survey are whites. When ever I was dealing with parts and ammos I dealt with Asians 90% of the time. Where are they?

Oak..... where's our beer?

quick draw mcgraw
02-06-2011, 11:16 PM
Done!

Just so you know though I am an uneducated, unemployed, non-white, ultra conservative, gay rights opposing, monster truck driving, nothing special gonna happen in two weeks kinda guy! So I hope I don't screw up your survey! :p

Just kidding!!! Thanks again for all your 2A efforts Oaklander!!!!

santacruzstefan
02-06-2011, 11:21 PM
I'm a poor white college student, support the gay, am pro-choice, drive a car, and am a libertarian. I took it, but my income/ current education level aren't what they will be in a few years... also, I might buy a truck.

N6ATF
02-06-2011, 11:38 PM
I wish I owned a pickup, sometimes.

johnthomas
02-07-2011, 12:06 AM
I own 3 pickup trucks, a Lexus, am white but I do not know what is going to happen in two weeks. I have no idea what that question is about.

nick
02-07-2011, 1:43 AM
I own 3 pickup trucks, a Lexus, am white but I do not know what is going to happen in two weeks. I have no idea what that question is about.

You'll find out in two weeks :)

kyletxria1911
02-07-2011, 2:25 AM
hey hey there aint many brothers on here:hide::biggrinjester:and that truck thing is killing me;)

Dutch3
02-07-2011, 3:04 AM
You should add a bracket for $150k/$200k/$250k+

The median income in SoCal is $93k.....

It's around $40K in this vicinity. But you can buy a decent home on acreage for $200K, so I guess it's all relative.

I own a pickup, but it currently doesn't run...does that count? :D

dunndeal
02-07-2011, 5:30 AM
I've got a 3/4 ton Suburban, does that count as a pickup truck?

Cali-Shooter
02-07-2011, 5:45 AM
D'ohhhhhh, it won't let me see current poll results, the "You can't go to this page because your IP has already voted" message.

wazdat
02-07-2011, 6:42 AM
Done.

$P-Ritch$
02-07-2011, 6:51 AM
It's around $40K in this vicinity. But you can buy a decent home on acreage for $200K, so I guess it's all relative.

I own a pickup, but it currently doesn't run...does that count? :D

I think having a truck that doesn't run makes you "over-qualified." :p

squishyhead
02-07-2011, 7:04 AM
I was really disappointed by the lack of Eskimos participating in this survey :shifty:

choprzrul
02-07-2011, 7:09 AM
Now, how in the devil is my wife (who is also a gun owner) supposed to take this survey if you are blocking my IP address???

harbinger007
02-07-2011, 8:28 AM
Question 8 should have had an option for "none of the above". You can't complete the survey unless you agree with at least one of the choices.

timdps
02-07-2011, 8:36 AM
I've got a 3/4 ton Suburban, does that count as a pickup truck?


Does a Toyota pickup count as a pickup truck? :D

harbinger007
02-07-2011, 8:43 AM
I've got a 3/4 ton Suburban, does that count as a pickup truck?

DMV classifies them as a station wagon, so no. Otherwise, as a farmer, I could have paid a reduced sales tax on mine when I bought it if I classified it as a farm vehicle.

movie zombie
02-07-2011, 8:43 AM
Done. :) Good luck with the data collecting!

A question about gender might have been interesting too (I was curious about how many of us are women).

i agree. it would be good to know what the statistics are in comparison with the national numbers.

MoZo

Stonewalker
02-07-2011, 9:27 AM
Now, how in the devil is my wife (who is also a gun owner) supposed to take this survey if you are blocking my IP address???

Use this website -
http://www.proxywebsite.org/

Cut and paste this
http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=IJKDFL_6919a5f7
into that site and hit 'browse'.

My contribution to the half-baked status of this survey! But I dig it Oaklander, I've come to totally appreciate the things you do here.

Ding126
02-07-2011, 9:37 AM
done

choprzrul
02-07-2011, 9:37 AM
Use this website -
http://www.proxywebsite.org/

Cut and paste this

into that site and hit 'browse'.

My contribution to the half-baked status of this survey! But I dig it Oaklander, I've come to totally appreciate the things you do here.

Sounds good, but my Border Gateway Security Appliance blocks proxy connections.

.

Ding126
02-07-2011, 9:39 AM
Done. :) Good luck with the data collecting!

A question about gender might have been interesting too (I was curious about how many of us are women).

___ Male

___ Female

___Other

Porterhouse
02-07-2011, 9:56 AM
Rather sad to see so many are heathens. Then again that follows the trend for the general population.

curtisfong
02-07-2011, 10:38 AM
Rather sad to see so many are heathens.

It follows greater income levels and education, not to mention the "technerd" demographic

Then again that follows the trend for the general population.

No, it does not. The general population has a much lower income and is significantly less educated than the demographic here.

squishyhead
02-07-2011, 10:43 AM
It follows greater income levels and education, not to mention the "technerd" demographic



No, it does not. The general population has a much lower income and is significantly less educated than the demographic here.

correct :stuart:

MP301
02-07-2011, 10:59 AM
Done

nicki
02-07-2011, 11:01 AM
If you can update your survey, a few things to add.

Add male/female/other to it.

Since this is California, I would add sexual orientation to it.
Simply straight/bi/gay.

That would paint a very interesting demographic.

It would also be interesting to see the make up of our board based on demographic regions.

At the current rate of growth for Calguns, the next evolutionary step is to officially get involved in local politics which eventually will lead to state and national power.

I bring up national power because many of us are 5 year/life plus NRA members and when we reach a certain level, we will be able to put our people onto the NRA board.

Nicki

tcd511
02-07-2011, 11:12 AM
all done. Cant wait to see what the whole 2 week thing is?

Glock22Fan
02-07-2011, 11:31 AM
I think having a truck that doesn't run makes you "over-qualified." :p

You get double points if it is stacked on bricks, and double again if there's vegetation growing through and around the bricks.

Steyrlp10
02-07-2011, 11:36 AM
Thanks Oak, it was fun -- like seeing what poll OHOD is up to :)

I'm glad you didn't have any fill ins... it was difficult enough to focus on what I had to read - lol

Don29palms
02-07-2011, 11:47 AM
Done! It was a good survey. The only problem I had with it is the gay question. Everybody has the same rights no matter what your sexual preference is.

Milsurp Collector
02-07-2011, 11:56 AM
SWEET you have mixed race as a option, i wish the paperwork would have had this option when i bought a gun.

Agreed! Call me a snobby mutt, but I get annoyed when government paperwork refuses to even recognize that 50-50 (and other combinations) people exist. I am equally proud of both sides of my heritage.

I don't know if California uses a different form, but on the Federal form 4473 http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf for question 10 Race (Ethnicity) it says "Check one or more boxes" so people of mixed race can indicate that.

FS00008
02-07-2011, 11:58 AM
How can we see the results?

Librarian
02-07-2011, 2:46 PM
Let's take the marriage etc discussion to its own thread in off topic.

oaklander
02-07-2011, 3:43 PM
Glad everyone is having fun with it! It was fun to write - but sometimes I have mental gaps on stuff. The gender and sexual orientation things were actually questions that I had intended to put in - BUT then I spaced out.

:o

In general, it looks like people here are younger, richer, more liberal, and more diverse than even I thought!

There's some additional stats I can run, once I get all the data. I will post the survey results and any additional analysis in TWO WEEKS!

ALSO - the "conventional wisdom" that "internet people" are different than "the general population" - WAS TRUE about 5 years ago - now, I do not see much difference.

If you can update your survey, a few things to add.

Add male/female/other to it.

Since this is California, I would add sexual orientation to it.
Simply straight/bi/gay.

That would paint a very interesting demographic.

It would also be interesting to see the make up of our board based on demographic regions.

At the current rate of growth for Calguns, the next evolutionary step is to officially get involved in local politics which eventually will lead to state and national power.

I bring up national power because many of us are 5 year/life plus NRA members and when we reach a certain level, we will be able to put our people onto the NRA board.

Nicki

johnny_22
02-07-2011, 3:45 PM
Yes, I own a pickup truck (Ford Ranger 4-door), but, to balance it out, my daily driver is an old 2001 Prius (the ultimate stealth gun owner's car).

freonr22
02-07-2011, 3:47 PM
italians never get their own box

Dreaded Claymore
02-07-2011, 3:49 PM
Done. :) Good luck with the data collecting!

A question about gender might have been interesting too (I was curious about how many of us are women).

THIS. The BIGGEST myth about gun owners is that only men use guns.

biofire
02-07-2011, 3:54 PM
Okay, so we're a bunch of young white rich educated conservatives ;)

Seriously, Calgunners are makin' money!

oaklander
02-07-2011, 4:07 PM
Agreed! My wife is building her own AMD-65 AK pistol. Can't get much more hard core than that!!!

THIS. The BIGGEST myth about gun owners is that only men use guns.

$P-Ritch$
02-07-2011, 5:44 PM
Okay, so we're a bunch of young white rich educated conservatives ;)

Seriously, Calgunners are makin' money!

Not all of us. :(

Ksmash01
02-07-2011, 6:01 PM
Agreed! Call me a snobby mutt, but I get annoyed when government paperwork refuses to even recognize that 50-50 (and other combinations) people exist. I am equally proud of both sides of my heritage.

I don't know if California uses a different form, but on the Federal form 4473 http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf for question 10 Race (Ethnicity) it says "Check one or more boxes" so people of mixed race can indicate that.

^^^^THIS......I could legitimately check 4 boxes on that form if I wanted to.

hey hey there aint many brothers on here:hide::biggrinjester:and that truck thing is killing me;)

I'll represent for the 4 of us......J/K!!!!

The problem with that question is not too many "brothers" would admit in public that they own anything firearms related. "Big Brother", "COINTELPRO", and the "Patriot Act" are just a few reasons why. I can't speak for us all though. Back to my hideout :hide:

barthel
02-07-2011, 6:13 PM
Done and Done!

Funtimes
02-07-2011, 7:09 PM
Internet survey = inconclusive results regardless of the sample size.

Truth. The poll is automatically bias because it is not a SRS. There is a tendency for those who have strong feelings on the issue or poll to participate.

Experimentalist
02-07-2011, 8:06 PM
Completed the survey.

I presume you plan to cite these data in letters to the editor for various college newspapers?

Dutch3
02-07-2011, 8:15 PM
You get double points if it is stacked on bricks, and double again if there's vegetation growing through and around the bricks.

Not on bricks (yet), but there is a pile of cinderblocks nearby and plenty of vegetation. I would have to move the wringer washing machine out of the way to get to the blocks, though.

No, I am not joking. :D

turbosbox
02-07-2011, 8:51 PM
Glad everyone is having fun with it! It was fun to write - but sometimes I have mental gaps on stuff. The gender and sexual orientation things were actually questions that I had intended to put in - BUT then I spaced out.

:o

In general, it looks like people here are younger, richer, more liberal, and more diverse than even I thought!

There's some additional stats I can run, once I get all the data. I will post the survey results and any additional analysis in TWO WEEKS!

ALSO - the "conventional wisdom" that "internet people" are different than "the general population" - WAS TRUE about 5 years ago - now, I do not see much difference.

Sure, go to any blind date internet site and you'll see that correlation, they are all younger richer more open minded and more attractive than you thought (until two weeks later when you met them :D ).

cbn620
02-07-2011, 10:09 PM
I would have liked either no questions about it, or a stronger response for my lack of religious background. Other than that pretty cool. What are you going to do with the data?

forgiven
02-07-2011, 10:37 PM
What the hell. Oh well, I took it anyway.

oaklander
02-08-2011, 12:53 PM
Part of it was to satisfy my own curiosity. I've always found the folks here to be a lot like me (kind of libertarian, and generally open minded).

I just wanted to see if I was correct.

But, I think moving forward, just knowing that for example, 25 percent of the people here support gay rights, is good - it's always something that you can throw back in the face of the antis when they start trying to portray ALL of us as closed-minded ideologues.

The truth is that us pro-gunners, for the most part - are just like everyone else - maybe more educated in some cases, and more likely to have a decent income. We actually fit the demographic that the anti-gun people WISH they had!!!

I'm actually not seeing anything strange at all in our demographics - just a nice variety of people who support an important civil right (the MOST important civil right - since the other rights rely on it).

:D

ALSO - the numbers are starting to "solidify" - this happens when you get near the ideal sample size vs. "n" number. I will probably close it a little later this week and post the results. Those of you who did not yet take it will likely see some things that will make you realize that we are not "special" or "different" - if anything, we are generally young, diverse, educated, have money, and believe in respecting rights.

Again, this is the type of demographic (and voting bloc) that most politicians WISH they had. It may be important for those politicians who read Calguns to remember that.

Completed the survey.

I presume you plan to cite these data in letters to the editor for various college newspapers?

soopafly
02-08-2011, 12:59 PM
Part of it was to satisfy my own curiosity. I've always found the folks here to be a lot like me (kind of libertarian, and generally open minded).
keeping an open mind is important in life...

that's why many gun owners have a 1911 AND a Glock...

many of us also own ARs AND AKs...

...see, isn't being open minded a great thing?:p

civilsnake
02-08-2011, 12:59 PM
But, I think moving forward, just knowing that for example, 25 percent of the people here support gay rights, is good - it's always something that you can throw back in the face of the antis when they start trying to portray ALL of us as closed-minded ideologues.


I would actually leave that out... the fact that it's less than 50% is downright embarrassing.

oaklander
02-08-2011, 12:59 PM
Does this mean that you won't go out with me?

I will pay for dinner, and drinks. I am young, rich and open minded.

:D

Here is a recent photo:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/179645_1845995789183_1219293433_2138835_910039_n.j pg

Sure, go to any blind date internet site and you'll see that correlation, they are all younger richer more open minded and more attractive than you thought (until two weeks later when you met them :D ).

oaklander
02-08-2011, 1:04 PM
Agreed - the fun part will be correlating educational level with views on social issues. I may not post too much of that kind of stuff, since it will show the various factions that comprise our community. This can be used against us, politically. . .

With that being said. . .

I think the anti's perception that the "law and order" faction is a large part of our community is actually completely wrong.

EDIT:

LOL - my ugly mug killed the thread!!!

I would actually leave that out... the fact that it's less than 50% is downright embarrassing.

snobord99
02-08-2011, 4:26 PM
Agreed - the fun part will be correlating educational level with views on social issues. I may not post too much of that kind of stuff, since it will show the various factions that comprise our community. This can be used against us, politically. . .

Unless if things have changed, I still think that 25% figure for gay rights (and all the other options in question 8) is incorrect.

That said, I think you should post everything. IMHO, purposely excluding things because it "can be used against us" only kills the legitimacy of the figures. Credible statistics should be neutral, not purposely skewed so that it makes one side look favorable over the other.

Edit: I couldn't care less about your ugly mug! :D

dantodd
02-08-2011, 4:46 PM
I suspect if you pulled out the 20 somethings who are students from the household income data you would find that we are even more affluent than the raw numbers indicate.

Zomgie
02-08-2011, 5:10 PM
So far I'm seeing that Calgunners are educated, very moderate/other, NOT religious, young, white and loaded. Cool.

rabagley
02-08-2011, 7:22 PM
Rather sad to see so many are heathens. Then again that follows the trend for the general population.

Why? I was a little disappointed that so few were atheist/agnostic. I guess we're both hoping that our views are or become dominant :)

steve91104
02-08-2011, 8:19 PM
I'm surprised at how young and well-paid we all are.

Rascal
02-08-2011, 8:29 PM
It would be nice if you could fix it so we can see the results after we voted to see how it is going, from time to time. Can this be done?

Ksmash01
02-09-2011, 8:51 AM
Part of it was to satisfy my own curiosity. I've always found the folks here to be a lot like me (kind of libertarian, and generally open minded).

I just wanted to see if I was correct.

But, I think moving forward, just knowing that for example, 25 percent of the people here support gay rights, is good - it's always something that you can throw back in the face of the antis when they start trying to portray ALL of us as closed-minded ideologues.

The truth is that us pro-gunners, for the most part - are just like everyone else - maybe more educated in some cases, and more likely to have a decent income. We actually fit the demographic that the anti-gun people WISH they had!!!

I'm actually not seeing anything strange at all in our demographics - just a nice variety of people who support an important civil right (the MOST important civil right - since the other rights rely on it).

:D

ALSO - the numbers are starting to "solidify" - this happens when you get near the ideal sample size vs. "n" number. I will probably close it a little later this week and post the results. Those of you who did not yet take it will likely see some things that will make you realize that we are not "special" or "different" - if anything, we are generally young, diverse, educated, have money, and believe in respecting rights.

Again, this is the type of demographic (and voting bloc) that most politicians WISH they had. It may be important for those politicians who read Calguns to remember that.

Keep in mind, this is California you are talking about. We would be all of those things if we were soccer players, or on a debate team. Pick any group of hobbyists and I'm sure your findings will be similar, with some exceptions.

It's good to see that we're not unlike everyone else.

oaklander
02-09-2011, 9:56 AM
Yes, that is exactly the point I am trying to drive home here.

It's good to see that we're not unlike everyone else.

Kyle1886
02-09-2011, 9:59 AM
I took the poll, however under "education" I had to check "High School" though I have college but no degrees.

Good luck
Kyle

oaklander
02-09-2011, 10:01 AM
There have been a few requests for changes to the survey. I wish I could, but I can't change it midstream.

The reason is that any changes create "segmentation" - this means that the results are only valid for each "version" - but not across versions.

I used to do surveys when I worked for a large law firm as a marketing manager, and I now remember how hard they are to do. My apologies if the survey is not as good as it could be!!!!

:(

BUT - I'm hoping that it will at least help us all understand each other better, and will also help our political opponents understand that we are just like them, in every single way - except that we support ALL PARTS OF THE CONSTITUTION - whereas our opponents pick and choose which parts to support.

Eargasm
02-09-2011, 10:13 AM
Here's a link that will hopefully let you check in on the results as the days progress:

http://www.kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=IJKDFL_6919a5f7&mode=4

IGOTDIRT4U
02-09-2011, 10:14 AM
The last question is a "control question" BTW. If you know what those are, you know why I did it and why I used that question.

Yes, I am smart like that.

:chris:

lol, I thought that was what you were doing with it. I was right! :p

oaklander
02-09-2011, 10:19 AM
Cool - good find! I was trying to figure out how to do that!!!

Here's a link that will hopefully let you check in on the results as the days progress:

http://www.kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=IJKDFL_6919a5f7&mode=4

mtptwo
02-09-2011, 10:25 AM
The religious question assumes that everyone is religious which is not the case. You need to add a "I'm not religious" option.

Also, your question that gays should have all of the rights of straights is a loaded question. Even if gays can't marry, they still have the same rights as straights being that straights can't marry someone of the same sex. You should rephrase the question to something along the lines of "do you support gay marriage." I'm sure the percentage of the answers would shift.

oaklander
02-09-2011, 10:52 AM
You are funny!

Right after I explained why I can't change the survey, and apologized for any small shortcomings, you posted something asking me to change the survey.

That's like me writing "sorry I can't run the marathon today, I broke my leg last night." And then you replying "what time do you want to run the marathon today?"

It's somewhat akin to a lack of "conversation comprehension." I assume you are not married?

:)

The religious question assumes that everyone is religious which is not the case. You need to add a "I'm not religious" option.

Also, your question that gays should have all of the rights of straights is a loaded question. Even if gays can't marry, they still have the same rights as straights being that straights can't marry someone of the same sex. You should rephrase the question to something along the lines of "do you support gay marriage." I'm sure the percentage of the answers would shift.

Wherryj
02-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Done.....Do we have to wait "two weeks" for the final results?????

I was a bit torn on the "two weeks" question. Something amazing is always supposed to happen in two weeks, but I don't think that I've ever witnessed said event...

Survey completed.

Zomgie
02-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Oaklander, I think you did a good job on the poll. We can always argue over semantics, but all the questions were clear and understandable.

oaklander
02-09-2011, 12:26 PM
Thanks, I got a little exasperated there for a bit!

As I've mentioned in other threads - I don't get paid for any of this (other than the few NFA trusts that I do). I'm just trying to be helpful here, and it's frustrating when people do not realize that.

Oaklander, I think you did a good job on the poll. We can always argue over semantics, but all the questions were clear and understandable.

turbosbox
02-09-2011, 1:16 PM
Does this mean that you won't go out with me?

I will pay for dinner, and drinks. I am young, rich and open minded.

:D

Here is a recent photo:




If we did go for drinks we would be besieged by waitresses asking if we were twins, or insisting we were brothers at the very least. I see you are also 35yrs old and 175lbs :D

I know it's been said a few times, but the survey doesn't appear to be doing the math correctly. E.g. on gay rights, i saw about 80% of the people voted in favor of it, but the poll said 25%. I think it is like "two weeks", just stuck on that no matter what. Likewise I think I got that question wrong as e.g. DOES it happen or is it SUPPOSED to happen.
One thing to consider is I saw libertarian only after I answered something like moderately conservative, but how many of us now are partly republican, partly democrat, part independent, tea party, liberal, conservative, libertarian...
I voted for both parties on the last election, and think there may be many more who like to carefully consider all angles and not just side with a single party or label.

oaklander
02-09-2011, 1:52 PM
I'm going to do my own math on that one - I agree - I'm seeing 405 "yes" votes for gay rights - out of a little over 500 total responses.

I think "kwik surveys" used the wrong math to calculate those percentages.

LUCKILY - I have the "raw data" in a form that can be exported to a spreadsheet. Once I do that, I will use standard math to come up with the correct percentages. In the "gay" question - the website is trying to figure each answer as a percentage of the total number of "boxes checked" instead of the total number of "survey takers."

About 1600 "boxes were checked" - so the poll "thinks" that 405 boxes is 25 percent - which is right - BUT also wrong!!!

It also means that no answer can get higher than about 25 percent.

I hate it when I know math better than people who design websites - since I suck at math - that must mean they suck at programming.

THIS IS WHY I DID NOT WANT TO POST THE RESULTS ONLINE UNTIL I COULD LOOK AT THE DATA.

If we did go for drinks we would be besieged by waitresses asking if we were twins, or insisting we were brothers at the very least. I see you are also 35yrs old and 175lbs :D

I know it's been said a few times, but the survey doesn't appear to be doing the math correctly. E.g. on gay rights, i saw about 80% of the people voted in favor of it, but the poll said 25%. I think it is like "two weeks", just stuck on that no matter what. Likewise I think I got that question wrong as e.g. DOES it happen or is it SUPPOSED to happen.
One thing to consider is I saw libertarian only after I answered something like moderately conservative, but how many of us now are partly republican, partly democrat, part independent, tea party, liberal, conservative, libertarian...
I voted for both parties on the last election, and think there may be many more who like to carefully consider all angles and not just side with a single party or label.

oaklander
02-09-2011, 1:57 PM
As soon as we hit 590 responses - I'm going to shut it down and crunch the numbers using my own math - I will post the raw numbers for each question so that people can double check me.

I won't post the FULL DATA (i.e., the entire matrix of responses) since there's a way to use that data to do psychographics on us:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychographic

It's helpful for US to have the antis see that we are just like them - it is NOT helpful for us to have the antis delve into our psychographics, since that information can be used to target things like opposition campaign spending - in ways that most of you won't even realize.

Wildeman_13
02-09-2011, 2:07 PM
Unless if things have changed, I still think that 25% figure for gay rights (and all the other options in question 8) is incorrect.

That said, I think you should post everything. IMHO, purposely excluding things because it "can be used against us" only kills the legitimacy of the figures. Credible statistics should be neutral, not purposely skewed so that it makes one side look favorable over the other.

Edit: I couldn't care less about your ugly mug! :D

Someone else pointed it out, but i'll refresh the point here. That question is not given it's percentage based on total number of users voting. It is based on total number of replies to the entirety of question #8. If you add up the "current" numbers for this single question, you have 408 out of 528 people saying they support gay rights. That's 77.3% supporting it as of a little while ago. Add up the total votes in that question and divide that into the votes for that part of the question. 408/528=.7727272...

komrad
02-09-2011, 3:11 PM
done and dunne... :thumbsup:

snobord99
02-09-2011, 5:22 PM
Someone else pointed it out, but i'll refresh the point here. That question is not given it's percentage based on total number of users voting. It is based on total number of replies to the entirety of question #8. If you add up the "current" numbers for this single question, you have 408 out of 528 people saying they support gay rights. That's 77.3% supporting it as of a little while ago. Add up the total votes in that question and divide that into the votes for that part of the question. 408/528=.7727272...

You mean...me? :D

diginit
02-09-2011, 5:42 PM
I'm sorry, But I don't understand what this survey could possibly do except make the antis laugh and think that gunowners are morons. Do you drive a truck??? Yes, I need it to get tools and materials to the jobsite. Hello???

Maybe a question like "Would I ever kill anyone without reason?" or "how many guns do you own?" Then..."Have any of the weapons you own ever shot or defended a person?? If so, Please explain." Or "Would you, as a gun owner, defend a helpless person against harm?" followed by... "Will I use discretion before using a weapon?" Would do some good.
But this has got to be a joke! Can someone please create a survey that could help gun owners? May be a good pet project for Gene or another CG mod. If they have the time and inclination...

wjc
02-09-2011, 7:54 PM
Dang, I'm the wrong demographic.

Older, semi-wealthy, white guy that drives a pickup with an NRA sticker that thinks illegals should be deported.

Sorry for blowing the bell curve, Oaklander! :D

Wildeman_13
02-10-2011, 9:26 AM
You mean...me? :D

Prolly. I'm lazy like that. ;)

And then Oaklander goes and basically says the same thing just seconds before I finished typing my thing. :eek:

Mimi_T
02-10-2011, 11:58 AM
I would actually leave that out... the fact that it's less than 50% is downright embarrassing.

I agree. I was surprised it was only 25%. Are we sure the poll is calculating it right? It seems an extremely low number.

I don't know about not mentioning it, but maybe it would be really good to try to figure out if the poll website is calculating the votes properly or if the multiple choice question is causing it to give wrong stats.

Edit: I saw now that Oaklander already noticed it and mentioned he'd do the math to have the right numbers. It seems the proper number is closer to 80%, seeing how so far, 563 people took the survey and 436 support gay rights.


I'm surprised at how young and well-paid we all are.

If we weren't, we probably wouldn't have a hobby this expensive. ;)

oaklander
02-10-2011, 6:31 PM
You are focusing on one single question about something not even related to guns.

Trust me, even asking questions like "Would I ever kill anyone without reason?" would have a lot worse political fallout that this innocuous survey. One single wrong answer from any person would make us look totally crazy. Think about it. . .

If you've read the entire thread, and it does not look like you have, then you would realize that the actual survey results actually portray us in a very positive light.

I knew that they would - so there was zero political risk here.

I've met you in person, and you seem like a nice person, so I do not understand the misguided hostility here.

Aren't you the same person who got into it with Bill over your affection for "Tannerite?" If that's the case, you may wish to re-think your understanding of how CA "gun law politics" actually works.

I'm sorry, But I don't understand what this survey could possibly do except make the antis laugh and think that gunowners are morons. Do you drive a truck??? Yes, I need it to get tools and materials to the jobsite. Hello???

Maybe a question like "Would I ever kill anyone without reason?" or "how many guns do you own?" Then..."Have any of the weapons you own ever shot or defended a person?? If so, Please explain." Or "Would you, as a gun owner, defend a helpless person against harm?" followed by... "Will I use discretion before using a weapon?" Would do some good.
But this has got to be a joke! Can someone please create a survey that could help gun owners? May be a good pet project for Gene or another CG mod. If they have the time and inclination...

corporateslave
02-10-2011, 6:52 PM
UGH...... I(white male) am the most persecuted race on earth. For things I had nothing to do with nor was I alive to be associated with.

Please tell me this is a joke... Are you serious???

corporateslave
02-10-2011, 7:01 PM
I'm going to do my own math on that one - I agree - I'm seeing 405 "yes" votes for gay rights - out of a little over 500 total responses.

I think "kwik surveys" used the wrong math to calculate those percentages.

LUCKILY - I have the "raw data" in a form that can be exported to a spreadsheet. Once I do that, I will use standard math to come up with the correct percentages. In the "gay" question - the website is trying to figure each answer as a percentage of the total number of "boxes checked" instead of the total number of "survey takers."

About 1600 "boxes were checked" - so the poll "thinks" that 405 boxes is 25 percent - which is right - BUT also wrong!!!

It also means that no answer can get higher than about 25 percent.

I hate it when I know math better than people who design websites - since I suck at math - that must mean they suck at programming.

THIS IS WHY I DID NOT WANT TO POST THE RESULTS ONLINE UNTIL I COULD LOOK AT THE DATA.

Agreed, I noticed this as soon as I saw the results for the survey. Treating a question where a person can pick more than one box the same as a question where a person can pick only one box is pretty dumb.

oaklander
02-10-2011, 7:37 PM
Yup - the "survey" provider website is from Britain. Maybe they use different math over there?

LOL

:)

Agreed, I noticed this as soon as I saw the results for the survey. Treating a question where a person can pick more than one box the same as a question where a person can pick only one box is pretty dumb.

oaklander
02-10-2011, 11:27 PM
Survey results are here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48625827/Informal-Gun-Owners-Survey-2011

I posted this on Scribd because it allows me to post a PDF without requiring you to have Acrobat Reader.

SOME POINTS:

1) I know that these types of surveys are biased by nature - since only people who like to fill out surveys actually fill out surveys.

2) Sorry that I missed some questions - I am not a professional survey writer - just someone who likes helping with gun rights stuff.

3) I think this shows that we are a lot younger, wealthier, and open-minded than people think we are.

EDIT: We actually fit the demographic for "expert internet users" - younger, wealthier, and more educated. No surprises here.

N6ATF
02-11-2011, 12:14 AM
Yup - the "survey" provider website is from Britain. Maybe they use different math over there?

LOL

:)

Yep, they use MATHS!

oaklander
02-11-2011, 12:29 AM
Yes - I remember the "new math" from grade school!

Took me 20 years to undo that damage!

Yep, they use MATHS!

N6ATF
02-11-2011, 12:32 AM
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/math-or-maths/

oaklander
02-11-2011, 1:48 AM
LOL - the Top Gear (http://www.topgear.com/uk/) guys do this with "horsepowers."

"Bloke, it has 520 horsepowerS!"

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/math-or-maths/

Anchors
02-11-2011, 2:07 AM
Wow.
A lot of wealthy people on calguns and most of them have high school/two/four year degrees.

I was surprised that the most "no" option on the religion questions was "rarely if ever".
I would have thought "I am not religious at all" would have been on there.

Good job Oaklander!

oaklander
02-11-2011, 5:14 PM
Thanks!

:D

Wow.
A lot of wealthy people on calguns and most of them have high school/two/four year degrees.

I was surprised that the most "no" option on the religion questions was "rarely if ever".
I would have thought "I am not religious at all" would have been on there.

Good job Oaklander!