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View Full Version : White House OMB rejects Emergency Rule by ATF


RP1911
02-06-2011, 2:03 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/06/3381596/statement-of-mayors-against-illegal.html

PsychGuy274
02-06-2011, 2:22 PM
About time the Armed Tyranny Foundation got a smack down.

Good for the White House.

gcvt
02-06-2011, 3:03 PM
Statement of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg

"The White House decided that the illegal trafficking of thousands of semiautomatic assault rifles from the U.S. to Mexico is not an emergency, our coalition of over 550 mayors strongly disagrees. These guns are fueling violence that has claimed more than 30,000 lives and putting our law enforcement officers at risk. ATF recognizes the emergency but we need the White House to give the agency the support it needs do its job effectively."

:nopity:

Jack L
02-06-2011, 3:10 PM
"ATF's emergency proposal to require reporting of bulk sales of long guns would give law enforcement meaningful intelligence about gun trafficking from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels. According to the Justice Department's Inspector General, these long guns make up nearly half of the guns recovered in Mexican crimes. ATF has said an overwhelming majority of these guns are traced back to the United States. It is disappointing that the Administration will not act swiftly to give ATF the investigative tools it needs to help stop these crimes."

FUD

thrillhouse700
02-06-2011, 3:17 PM
From what I hear the gov makes it almost impossible for BP to do their jobs as it is. I'm sure first line gear could attest to this. Seems whatever is going on is purely political.

C.W.M.V.
02-06-2011, 3:27 PM
As much as I HATE to say anything positive about him, the Hussein white house has been pretty good to us gun owners, rather they haven't bent us over and had their way with us. Hopefully he continues to leave it alone.

753X0
02-06-2011, 3:35 PM
" ...our coalition of over 550 mayors..."

Out of about 19000+ cities, most of which have mayors....

That's a pretty impressive coalition.

...Zzzz....

Jack L
02-06-2011, 3:53 PM
Bloomberg needs to butt out.

C.W.M.V.
02-06-2011, 3:57 PM
Bloomberg needs to butt out.

And/or hang.

Helpful_Cub
02-06-2011, 4:01 PM
"ATF's emergency proposal to require reporting of bulk sales of long guns would give law enforcement meaningful intelligence about gun trafficking from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels. According to the Justice Department's Inspector General, these long guns make up nearly half of the guns recovered in Mexican crimes. ATF has said an overwhelming majority of these guns are traced back to the United States. It is disappointing that the Administration will not act swiftly to give ATF the investigative tools it needs to help stop these crimes."

I'm guessing Obama didn't want to support (aka pay) for the ATF to do this. Expecially after finding out that the ATF kind of helped to get some US guns into Mexico in the first place.

Cali-Shooter
02-06-2011, 5:00 PM
About time the Armed Tyranny Foundation got a smack down.

You said it! Top-down denial at it's finest!

EZ G
02-06-2011, 5:05 PM
Or maybe this is starting to heat up:

Death in the Desert: Project Gunwalker and the ATF Cover-Up

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/death_in_the_desert_project_gu.html

Cokebottle
02-06-2011, 5:22 PM
rather they haven't bent us over and had their way with us.
Just romancing us a bit before moving in for the kill.

C.W.M.V.
02-06-2011, 5:26 PM
Just romancing us a bit before moving in for the kill.

I hope not, but probably true. I have to admit though I thought the new administration would be coming after the 2A with a quickness.

bohoki
02-06-2011, 5:26 PM
its not an emergency to us

N6ATF
02-06-2011, 5:51 PM
Never let a third world country's crisis go to waste.

Window_Seat
02-06-2011, 6:15 PM
About time the Armed Tyranny Foundation got a smack down.
...

:laugh: :laugh:

Lulfas
02-06-2011, 6:21 PM
I hope not, but probably true. I have to admit though I thought the new administration would be coming after the 2A with a quickness.

Its what they say every time a Democrat wins any election anywhere. Results in good gun sales every time.

killathrilla
02-06-2011, 6:32 PM
If the White House is going to do something regarding gun ownership it will be on the sly and not in your face. Look at the kicking they got in the midterms....any significant move now they might as well give the Repubs the keys to the castle

RRangel
02-06-2011, 6:35 PM
The White House says the decision is being delayed for two months and that this is due to a policy of allowing more public commenting. So please do. There's that little issue about Congress too. We'll likely be hearing about it at a later date.

Scott Connors
02-06-2011, 6:37 PM
As much as I HATE to say anything positive about him, the Hussein white house has been pretty good to us gun owners, rather they haven't bent us over and had their way with us. Hopefully he continues to leave it alone.

Nobody ever said that President Obama was stupid. He knows better than to open a second front when he is scrambling to preserve his health care legislation.

dfletcher
02-06-2011, 6:46 PM
Just romancing us a bit before moving in for the kill.

Agree - I saw the word "delay" in the article, not reject. No bad idea ever really dies in DC, it just gets postponed. Here it is, 7 years after the AWB hit sunset and the spectre of it being renewed is still with us.

pdugan6
02-06-2011, 6:53 PM
"ATF's emergency proposal to require reporting of bulk sales of long guns would give law enforcement meaningful intelligence about gun trafficking from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels. According to the Justice Department's Inspector General, these long guns make up nearly half of the guns recovered in Mexican crimes. ATF has said an overwhelming majority of these guns are traced back to the United States. It is disappointing that the Administration will not act swiftly to give ATF the investigative tools it needs to help stop these crimes."

FUD

Imagine the head of the drug smuggling sinaloa cartel riding his multi million dollar bomb proof, armored humvee, fresh from inspecting a dc-10 loaded with 8 tons of cocaine. He turns to his drug smuggling logistics expert and says,"I want you to go to Bob's Sporting Goods in Pima, Arizona and obtain for me a tech 9. I understand Bob is lax with his federal paperwork." That scenario is nonsensical!the combined drug cartels profits equal 1/10 of mexicos gross national product. I think they are going to link themselves with an equal profit center- ruthless black market arms traders. The same type of traders who supply columbian narco terrorists and african civil wars. people like Vikort Bout. google that name. the indictment of vikort Bout
Edit/Delete Message

justMike
02-06-2011, 7:31 PM
Does anyone here even know what number would constitute a bulk sale in the proposal?
This information might help focus the conversation better I think.

bubbapug1
02-06-2011, 7:37 PM
why not enforce the border? or is it easier to strip US citizens of our rights??

Cali-Shooter
02-06-2011, 7:42 PM
why not enforce the border? or is it easier to strip US citizens of our rights??

Yes it's easier, or should I say, more to the Gov't's "interests."

PsychGuy274
02-06-2011, 8:09 PM
Does anyone here even know what number would constitute a bulk sale in the proposal?
This information might help focus the conversation better I think.

Already been covered.

Two centerfire rifles would have been considered a 'bulk sale.'

Blackhawk556
02-06-2011, 8:12 PM
^^^Bulk equals two. I wondering what they would call a box of 333 rounds of 22lr from Wally world

GettoPhilosopher
02-06-2011, 8:16 PM
^^^Bulk equals two. I wondering what they would call a box of 333 rounds of 22lr from Wally world

A "terrorist arsenal the likes of which have never been seen this side of Afghanistan". ;P

Helpful_Cub
02-06-2011, 8:19 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how the Mexican cartel get full-autos when we, the 1st world country can't even be trusted with high cap magazines.

kcbrown
02-06-2011, 8:41 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how the Mexican cartel get full-autos when we, the 1st world country can't even be trusted with high cap magazines.

My suspicion is that it's because for any practical purpose, the Mexican cartels are the government down there. What we consider to be the Mexican "government" is just a front.

The U.S. government also gets full autos...

safewaysecurity
02-06-2011, 8:55 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how the Mexican cartel get full-autos when we, the 1st world country can't even be trusted with high cap magazines.

Simple. Obviously gun shows are selling pre-1986 full autos for pennies on the dollar. They are also converting full auto airsoft guns into the real thing because the mechanisms are already in place. This idea that corruption in the Mexican Military or the idea that the Cartels have enough money to bribe officials is conspiracy black helicopter talk.

model63
02-06-2011, 8:56 PM
I hope not, but probably true. I have to admit though I thought the new administration would be coming after the 2A with a quickness.

I think he will still need to cave to some type of pressure in the coming weeks. I don't think it will be solely in the form of limiting mag capacity (at least I hope not supporting that Congresswoman's bill from New York) but it could and may be part of initial legislation that ends up getting parsed off of the final bill. I am sure there will be a big push for "guilt-ing" us into limiting mag capacity, etc... and how those extra rounds on those 33rd Glock mags will take additional lives, blaming the NRA, etc...but it will die in the House....instead I think he will springboard the mental health issue (coupled with support for his health care bill) and tidy up reporting between agencies (armed services and Instant check or whatever failed with that Ft Hood Shooter). This too won't be without controversy, especially if some community college, employer or angry spouse can you put you on some no-buy-gun list like instant check without any diagnosis. The no-fly list disasters will surely be used as a bad example as well as the story of abuse like the link below...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351937/Immigration-officer-fired-putting-wife-list-terrorists-stop-flying-home.html

I think Lieberman will tie all this together in the end as he is championing the Ft Hood outrage...I have a feeling it will really be a challenge not of what toys we can have but a challenge to our privacy and anonymity and who is subject to having their rights limited by government before an actual crime is ever committed.

Mofo-Kang
02-06-2011, 8:57 PM
You know, I think if Obama sponsored legislation to GIVE AWAY 9mm pistols to any adult who asked for one, half of you guys would insist he's REALLY secretly anti-gun because they aren't .45's. :nuts: :)

Cali-Shooter
02-06-2011, 8:59 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how the Mexican cartel get full-autos when we, the 1st world country can't even be trusted with high cap magazines.

The Mexican Gov't is so corrupt, you can bet a healthy number of the military assault rifles that the US gives to the Mexican Army and Federal Police to fight off the Drug Cartels ironically ends up in their hands, either thru Feds defecting to Cartel, selling the weapons to them, and or supplying them behind the backs of the Mexican leadership, with the nodding approval of other Mexican Gov leaders, and with the latest ATF allegations, possibly even with involvement from some hardcore corrupt U.S. officials.
Anything more, and I'm afraid I'll be accused of :TFH:ing you.

RRangel
02-06-2011, 9:32 PM
You know, I think if Obama sponsored legislation to GIVE AWAY 9mm pistols to any adult who asked for one, half of you guys would insist he's REALLY secretly anti-gun because they aren't .45's. :nuts: :)

Delaying a decision on BATFE powers that defy Congress for a couple of months is not the equivalence of some weird fantasy where a president gives away free pistols. Serving 8 years on the board of directors for the antigun Joyce Foundation doesn't mean he's pro gun either.

quick draw mcgraw
02-06-2011, 11:19 PM
Statement of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg

"The White House decided that the illegal trafficking of thousands of semiautomatic assault rifles from the U.S. to Mexico is not an emergency, our coalition of over 550 mayors strongly disagrees. These guns are fueling violence that has claimed more than 30,000 lives and putting our law enforcement officers at risk. ATF recognizes the emergency but we need the White House to give the agency the support it needs do its job effectively."

:nopity:


I would love to slap that little Bloomberg B*tch right out of the phone book!!

MontClaire
02-06-2011, 11:21 PM
As much as I HATE to say anything positive about him, the Hussein white house has been pretty good to us gun owners, rather they haven't bent us over and had their way with us. Hopefully he continues to leave it alone.

as long as lapierre drops by his monthly envelope:rolleyes:

bwiese
02-06-2011, 11:56 PM
as long as lapierre drops by his monthly envelope:rolleyes:

as long as Wayne LaPierre doesn't call the dogs out...

bwiese
02-06-2011, 11:59 PM
Delaying a decision on BATFE powers that defy Congress for a couple of months is not the equivalence of some weird fantasy where a president gives away free pistols. Serving 8 years on the board of directors for the antigun Joyce Foundation doesn't mean he's pro gun either.

Correct.

Obama's under 2 yrs away from campaign. It'll be tighter because a lot of middle-roaders tired of Bush also got tired of 'hope & change' even as the economy likely recovers. The last thing he wants to do is irritate the Tyrannosaurus of Gun Rights - not only for his sake but for another round of Congressional elections.

SupportGeek
02-07-2011, 12:21 AM
I hope not, but probably true. I have to admit though I thought the new administration would be coming after the 2A with a quickness.

I saw it as something very unlikely to happen.
He had the whole mess of economy to deal with, plus a number of other promises he was eager to move on, none of which had anything to do with 2A.
IF he gets re-elected, the time will be more ripe to come after guns, since he will have nothing to lose.

But I still maintain anyone that gained presidency after GWB walking into the crapstorm what was the collapsing economy, was a 1 term president, the American public is a fickle creature, and when no quick recovery happens, the man in charge gets the blame.

Ford8N
02-07-2011, 4:47 AM
Correct.

Obama's under 2 yrs away from campaign. It'll be tighter because a lot of middle-roaders tired of Bush also got tired of 'hope & change' even as the economy likely recovers. The last thing he wants to do is irritate the Tyrannosaurus of Gun Rights - not only for his sake but for another round of Congressional elections.

If that's the case then the gun rights folks should go on the offensive at a Federal level and start dismantling some of the low hanging fruit gun laws. Like 922r, we all need parts to repair our legal firearms. Or give us a definition of what "sporting purposes" means and how that relates to what is written in the Second Amendment. To me now would be a good time to start pushing back for a change rather than always reacting like we do here in California.

MP301
02-07-2011, 2:00 PM
As much as I HATE to say anything positive about him, the Hussein white house has been pretty good to us gun owners, rather they haven't bent us over and had their way with us. Hopefully he continues to leave it alone.

Seriously? Please dont confuse self preservation with being "good to us." He would drop that hammer in a second if he could get away with it. He is no friend to gun owners or common sense for that matter...

If by some stretch he gets elected for a second term, then you wil see his anti gun side come out.

read the whole write up here.....

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/barack_obama_gun_control.htm

Snip....
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, “No, my writing wasn’t on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.”

Actually, Obama’s writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama’s campaign said, “Sen. Obama didn’t fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn’t reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn’t reflect his views.” Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008_Dems_Philly.htm) Apr 16, 2008

Booshanky
02-07-2011, 3:01 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/06/3381596/statement-of-mayors-against-illegal.html

More proof that Obama doesn't care about banning guns.

I've said it since before the election, and I've kept saying it: The Obama administration does not want to ban your guns. Period.


All the fear that we RKBA supporters have of Obama is nothing more than irrational fear of nothing, and all it does is turn off liberals who may be pro-gun. Hopefully we can finally realize that Obama doesn't care about banning guns, and can evolve past this persecution complex that we've all been suffering from since the Clinton AWB.

Civilitant
02-07-2011, 3:07 PM
My suspicion is that it's because for any practical purpose, the Mexican cartels are the government down there. What we consider to be the Mexican "government" is just a front.

The U.S. government also gets full autos...

I was connect four champion of my private school for 4 years 5th through 8th grade at South Bay Christian Center in Sunnyvale.

KCBROWN, I bet you are hard to beat at connect four.

well played sir.

Booshanky
02-07-2011, 3:37 PM
He would drop that hammer in a second if he could get away with it.


That's just paranoia. Plain and simple.


Unfortunately that's what will continue to spread, because you guys aren't really looking at this from a factual perspective. He could go his entire 4 year term not doing anything to increase gun control, and still you guys will feel "right" because you can always just say "Well it was our vigilance that made him not do it! He really wanted to though!"

It's a view of reality that's completely immune to facts and what actually happens. Because you're looking at the situation not from an objective perspective, but rather as someone who thinks they can tell what someone is REALLY thinking.

That's no different from talking to Miss Cleo about whether he's going to ban guns.

I'd rather look at the facts and reality and then come to a conclusion, not have a conclusion and find bits of information that support it while ignoring all the evidence that refutes it.

DannyInSoCal
02-07-2011, 3:47 PM
Not a chance. George Soros knows his Obama puppet can only win re-election by avoiding controversy.

If his Obama puppet wins a second term - All hell will break lose and the liberals will try to crush every RKBA aspect of our Constitution...

bwiese
02-07-2011, 3:52 PM
Boo,

We DO know Obama is antigun. This is not political rhetortic or posturing.

He worked for the key funding agency of 'antigun-ism', the Joyce Founation.

He had a personal conversation (U. Chicago) w/Lott in which he indicated guns should be banned. He appointed known antigunners to the Supreme Ct. He's nominated a radical gun grabber dude really tied in with politically antigun LEOs & Chicago politics to run the BATF (Andrew Traver).

Pro-gun liberals just don't get the politics on this. Gun control is not just about direct legislation - it's about regulation and staffing and nominations. The lack of something coming up from congress does not mean desires are not there.

The only reason Obama can't support raw direct gun legislation is BECAUSE HE'D TRIGGER A (political) revolt - that's why they have to do (indirect) antigun work thru staffing/regulation. Obama won by relatively thin margins and the nation has turned against him somewhat (he got a fair amount of novelty votes which have moved away from him - much like Schwarzenegger).

The 1994 AW ban was the cause of the loss of a ton of seats in Congress (+Senate) incl. the Speaker of the House (Foley). It was not (as some Republicans like to say) due much to any "Contract with America" or to "Hillary care" - Bill Clinton was indeed chastened (and correct) when he blamed NRA/gun politics for these losses.

Let's assume the economy was great, there was a pro-Obama balance in Senate/House etc. and that Obama was highly popular and had political capital to spend. You can bet his staffers would drive a hicap mag ban, an AW ban and whatever else they could think of.

wildhawker
02-07-2011, 4:06 PM
The fact that Obama is incented to avoid pushing gun bans, and rationally chooses to avoid them, is *not* the same as saying that he doesn't want to ban guns.

Make no mistake - given the latitude, he would in a heartbeat.

kcbrown
02-07-2011, 4:24 PM
The 1994 AW ban was the cause of the loss of a ton of seats in Congress (+Senate) incl. the Speaker of the House (Foley). It was not (as some Republicans like to say) due much to any "Contract with America" or to "Hillary care" - Bill Clinton was indeed chastened (and correct) when he blamed NRA/gun politics for these losses.


I've heard this mentioned a lot.

I'm not really surprised by it, and don't really question the truth of it (it's as sensible an explanation of the rout as any other, if not more so), but I do wonder what data and reasoning was used to arrive at this conclusion.

Can someone enlighten me?

Wherryj
02-07-2011, 4:38 PM
Statement of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg

"The White House decided that the illegal trafficking of thousands of semiautomatic assault rifles from the U.S. to Mexico is not an emergency, our coalition of over 550 mayors strongly disagrees. These guns are fueling violence that has claimed more than 30,000 lives and putting our law enforcement officers at risk. ATF recognizes the emergency but we need the White House to give the agency the support it needs do its job effectively."

:nopity:

Bloomberg has a right to be upset that the OBM doesn't want to violate the Constitution to allow a measure that makes him feel warm and fuzzy. What will they do next?

Cokebottle
02-07-2011, 6:09 PM
You know, I think if Obama sponsored legislation to GIVE AWAY 9mm pistols to any adult who asked for one, half of you guys would insist he's REALLY secretly anti-gun because they aren't .45's. :nuts: :)
No strings attached?
Sure, I'd take one.

The moment I had to show ID and sign for it, hell no.

Nor-Cal
02-07-2011, 8:10 PM
This is great,

Sgt5811
02-07-2011, 8:44 PM
I bet half of those 550 mayors don't even know that they are part of Bumbleburghs coalition!

Cali-Shooter
02-07-2011, 8:45 PM
This is great,

Only buys us some time. Obama is a snake, he will strike later if given the chance. He is just biding his time because his re-election prospects are starting to look dim. If he manages to make a 2nd term, we are farking screwed, just watch.

Librarian
02-07-2011, 8:53 PM
I've heard this mentioned a lot.

I'm not really surprised by it, and don't really question the truth of it (it's as sensible an explanation of the rout as any other, if not more so), but I do wonder what data and reasoning was used to arrive at this conclusion.

Can someone enlighten me?

Occasionally wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association#1994) is OK...

1994

In the 1994 election the NRA is often credited with defeating Congressmen Jack Brooks and Tom Foley (the first Speaker of the House to lose reelection since 1862). Bill Clinton wrote:
“ The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Brooks had supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master: one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage and could rightly claim to have made Gingrich the House Speaker.
—Bill Clinton, My Life pp 629-30”

6172crew
02-07-2011, 9:13 PM
Didnt he have something to do with blocking the importation of Korean M1s? I also remember a big beef with the military brass sold back to tax payers.

I could be wrong but these are the 2 thing so far.

bulgron
02-07-2011, 11:44 PM
As much as I HATE to say anything positive about him, the Hussein white house has been pretty good to us gun owners, rather they haven't bent us over and had their way with us. Hopefully he continues to leave it alone.

I don't have your view of the current administration. Just look at his two SCOTUS appointees.

Jack L
02-08-2011, 6:10 AM
When Obama made the remark about county folks like their 'religion and guns' he got spanked really well from the media and the citizens. From that point on he's been calculating his anti gun moves real crafty. He hires/appoints others to try to change gun law so the fingers do not point at him. If he is reelected, that's when you many see Obama start ramping up his anti stance. His state of Illinois with all the crooks that run it does not allow any CCW permits for the serfs.

Bloomberg and his team along with the left liberal media is pushing Obama for a anti speech and some action. I assume he may go for the high cap ban and probably more oversight/control over dealers in states that sell to straw buyers for the cartel. I do not see much else at this point. The anti's will act like any new law or enforcing is a major shift in the mindset of the country but that will be just more BS from their shrunken brains barfed out on liberal media outlets.

DannyInSoCal
02-08-2011, 6:35 AM
That's just paranoia. Plain and simple.


Unfortunately that's what will continue to spread, because you guys aren't really looking at this from a factual perspective. He could go his entire 4 year term not doing anything to increase gun control, and still you guys will feel "right" because you can always just say "Well it was our vigilance that made him not do it! He really wanted to though!"

It's a view of reality that's completely immune to facts and what actually happens. Because you're looking at the situation not from an objective perspective, but rather as someone who thinks they can tell what someone is REALLY thinking.

That's no different from talking to Miss Cleo about whether he's going to ban guns.

I'd rather look at the facts and reality and then come to a conclusion, not have a conclusion and find bits of information that support it while ignoring all the evidence that refutes it.

If Obama is pro-gun - Or even neutral - Why isnt speaking out against hi-cap mag bans...?

Possibility #1). He knows it would drive away his own political base of voters who may be anti-gun - Which would make him a hypocrite - Ignoring his own personal beliefs and what he thinks is the "right thing to do" in order to preserve votes...

Possibility #2). He's actually anti-gun - In spite of the "over wellming" proof that he isn't. (?)

Possibility #3). He's more focused on the REAL issues of our country - Like universal healthcare and illegal amnesty. RKBA, record unemployment, record bankruptcies, and record foreclosures - Will all have to wait until Obama decides they are important enough to warrant his attention...

Trying to prove Obama isn't anti-gun - Is like trying to prove a date rapist won't rape again now that he's married and not "dating".

Obama has always been very active in anti-gun legislature/movements - But I guess until he actually PUBLICALLY does it as President - None of that other Anti stuff matters...

mtptwo
02-08-2011, 9:18 AM
How is Obama going to take my guns if he keeps this stuff up? :confused: