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View Full Version : Owning BB Guns in SF: State law says "yes," but SF Police will still arrest you!


Paladin
02-05-2011, 7:31 PM
I came across two articles re. merely owning BB guns (or even slingshots!), is a misdemeanor in SF (Police Municipal Code section 602).

The first says that five years ago Arnie signed a law (Government Code 53071.5) to preempt local ordinances regulating BB guns and that SF's DA and public defenders agree SF's ordinance is obsolete.
http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-10-07/news/police-declare-air-guns-illegal-s-f-public-defender-d-a-and-state-law-disagree/

This second article has an example of SF police still arresting people even though they know that SF's ordinance is illegal.
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/11/police_still_enforcing_obsolet.php

But just because a local ordinance has been overridden -- for five years -- by a state law specifically penned to override it doesn't mean the cops can stop enforcing it.

"Until the chief of police tells us not to cite on this offense, we will continue to do the citations," confirms the sergeant.

He has no choice. It's the law. Even though it isn't.

shocknm
02-05-2011, 7:42 PM
My nine year old is guilty, on both counts.
Does the SFPD have an anonymous tip hotline? I wanna drop a dime on the little criminal.

PowerPanda
02-05-2011, 7:58 PM
It's also pre-empted by USC 15 76 5001 G (follows). Apparently this law is over a hundred years old and was to stop kids from shooting cart horses in the rear at the top of hills, which, come to think of it, would be quite the problem. Perfect example of why laws need sunset provisions.

(g)*Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptions
The provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provided that no State shall—
(i)*prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or
(ii)*prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to minors) of traditional B–B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

Gray Peterson
02-05-2011, 9:45 PM
Someone can file a writ of mandate just like what happened SF handgun ban a few years ago.

Gray Peterson
02-05-2011, 9:53 PM
Anyone notice that it's over a year old? I can tell you that SF doesn't let this crap go quite easily.

Who would be interested in taking down this ordinance...hmm.......

Purple K
02-05-2011, 10:00 PM
Gray, would that person need to be a SF resident?

Tripper
02-05-2011, 10:02 PM
hmm, an officer of the law, sworn to uphold the constitution of the state, and the 'lawful' orders of those appointed over him (governor), still deciding upon themselves to arrest. sounds like a serious violation of the law, and any officer that abides by that law should face the consequences like the rest of us have to do when not obeying the law.

if I had the resources and time, i would volunteer to get arrested for that one.

Tripper

Tripper
02-05-2011, 10:03 PM
I might just see about teaching a class over in San Fran

Tripper

Tripper
02-05-2011, 10:04 PM
can this forum be subpeona'd

Tripper

joelogic
02-05-2011, 10:06 PM
I love this City. Public urination, weed smoking at bus stops, Homeless sitting on Haight after sit/lay law passed, Pot clubs everywhere but guns are the devil.

Window_Seat
02-05-2011, 10:11 PM
I don't live in SF, but I was born & spanked there, and love the city like I love my friends & family. I will help (as co-spanker or primary spanker) if I'm needed. I want my city by the bay back to normal. :(

Erik.

cdtx2001
02-06-2011, 7:10 AM
"powered by air or gas and shoots a projectile"

Sounds like them 6 year old kids with Nerf guns are in deep sh**.

jtmkinsd
02-06-2011, 10:33 AM
Someone can file a writ of mandate just like what happened SF handgun ban a few years ago.

I had to do one of those about ten years ago (long story), estimates from attorneys ranged anywhere from $1500 to $5000. :eek:

I did it myself (pro per) and paid $271 for the filing fee. :rolleyes:

Liberty1
02-06-2011, 1:42 PM
Better yet have them attempt to cite, refuse to sign, get booked, and the damages for a false arrest just went up.;)

Tripper
02-06-2011, 1:45 PM
That refusal and going to jail would b my route, I should get lots of damages considering I'd lose my job among a lot if other things

Tripper

tonelar
02-06-2011, 1:48 PM
Does going after this mean someone's gotta be arrested?

Tripper
02-06-2011, 2:08 PM
To make them fix it, they need to be coerced apparently

Gray Peterson
02-06-2011, 2:09 PM
Does going after this mean someone's gotta be arrested?

No. It's called a writ of mandate and that's what struck down Prop H.

Btw, folks, do not intentionally violate this ordinance thinking you'll be able to challenge this law. Let's do this civilly, as it's less messy and gets the job done.

jtmkinsd
02-06-2011, 2:21 PM
Does going after this mean someone's gotta be arrested?

A writ of mandamus or mandamus (which means "we command" in Latin), or sometimes mandate, is the name of one of the prerogative writs in the common law, and is "issued by a superior court to compel a lower court or a government officer to perform mandatory or purely ministerial duties correctly".

creekside
02-07-2011, 12:13 PM
No. It's called a writ of mandate and that's what struck down Prop H.

Btw, folks, do not intentionally violate this ordinance thinking you'll be able to challenge this law. Let's do this civilly, as it's less messy and gets the job done.

So I should not UOC my pellet gun outside LCAV's offices this afternoon?

Aw . . .

tonelar
02-07-2011, 3:29 PM
Got a chance (just now) to ask a Sgt as well as two patrol officers if pellet rifles and or bb guns were banned in SF.
"Nope. Pellet guns are legal in the city." was the answer I got.

jtmkinsd
02-07-2011, 5:50 PM
Got a chance (just now) to ask a Sgt as well as two patrol officers if pellet rifles and or bb guns were banned in SF.
"Nope. Pellet guns are legal in the city." was the answer I got.

No doubt it is enforced at the discretion/convenience of the dept./officer. "It's another tool we can use." :rolleyes:

tonelar
02-07-2011, 7:13 PM
I don't doubt there's cops who might think differently, however the ones in the mission district (that Ive asked so far) sound like they know the orig law is no longer in effect.