Please Help-Gun SEIZURE Questions

[vg247]

My brother's home in SAN JOSE, CA was burglarized today and he had called the police, they did a thorough report and cleared the house..As he is a legal gun owner who registered his CAR-15 rifle in 2000 when they asked if he had any weapons he told he did. It was locked in a case and unloaded- what upsets me was that my brother told me the cops spent more time questioning the gun than the home being broken into after the saw it's appearance collapsible stock, emptied AR mags,etc.

The officer said it was procedure to run the serial number and my brother had no problems as it was legally owned and registered. After two hours of being on the phone with the DOJ, ATF he came back and said there were no records for the gun and as a result they had to bring in into their "ASSAULTS" unit to look into.

**My bro's concern's- he clearly registered and what if the system is screwed up that they can't find the record. Was this legal for the cops to do although they were called there for a burglary?? What if the cop just keeps the gun and never turns it in, as my brother asked for something in writing that he took possession of it and he insisted that it will just go on the case report with the home burglary(so when calling them just use that case #). LAstly what if the police do find a legal record for the gun but they just want one less firearm on the street and come back saying "because there are no records" they will keep it?? Please advise on proper legal actions and what to do ...thank you all for your help.

[bwiese]

Does he have his AW registration paperwork? He should keep original in safety deposit box and copies in safe, car, truck...

DOJ recordkeeping on AWs may have flaws in recorded serial numbers and makes/models - some brands are 'translated' into others. Sometimes serial numbers got trucated, or the owner submitted the serial number but not , say, an alphanumeric prefix.

San Jose PD doesn't have a great record with knowning what is & isn't an assault weapon.

[I assume the reg means the 2000 AW reg, and not the 4473/DROS when he bought it in 1999 or earlier?]

[Rob454]

Since he let them in and showed them the weapon there is no real wrongful search and seisure. He needs to find his paperwork. Personally I wouldnt tell the cops jack S**T except what had to do with the burglary.
Rob

[Dont Tread on Me]

This backs up what Bill quoted a while back that most "assault" weapon encounters occur when cops enter homes, not on traffic stops.

This raises an interesting question. What do you say to the police when they have entered your house with your permission to clear it after a burglary and they start asking about weapons? Are you within your rights to refuse to answer such a question and withdraw your permission from them to be there? Or are you obliged to show them your guns?

[vg247]

Hello- thanks for the response...I had asked my brother and he didn't seem to be able to find the AW registration at the moment when the police were there.

Yes the registration was for the AW one, and indeed they police were clueless they didn't know anything about the firearms laws or highcap mag laws..just that their eyes widen I was told when the saw the CAR-15.

We are just assuming worst case scenarios and want to know if this procedure was legally carried out by the police or what legal actions to take since the officer did not leave my brother anything confirming his receipt/taking the firearm.

Even when my brother asked if he could keep the mags, so there would be less chance of them losing more items, the officer insisted they kept the mags as well...

Thanks again, any suggestions and attorney referrals are very much appreciated

[JPglee1]

the officer insisted they kept the mags as well...



He says "Thanks" he needed more for his issue rifle :D :rolleyes:


Good luck getting non serial-ized magazines back...


J

[Dont Tread on Me]

No receipt! I think it is time to get a lawyer now. It makes me sick to think that if the cops do search my house they might confiscate my standard cap mags. Perhaps my SU16 and M1A will look evil to them and they will grab them too.

I'm very sorry to hear about what happened here. I hope the only good side is that this thread can reveal what to do to stop the cops from seeing your guns and what to do if they take them.

Your brother should put a sign up in-front of his house. "Robbed twice today. Once by unknown individuals. Once by the PD"

[KenpoProfessor]

Well, we all knew it could happen, and it did, love that abuse under color of authority.

Tell your brother good luck getting them back but if he wants it back, he better find the paperwork, and even then, snowball's chance in Hades. Hopefully you'll find a good attorney but they will cost as much as the gun and mags are worth.

At least inform him he can still buy an OLL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[JPglee1]

I hope the only good side is that this thread can reveal what to do to stop the cops from seeing your guns and what to do if they take them.

Probably the best thing to do is don't have them in your house, if you're burgled for a TV or something, write it off as a life tax... You won't see it again anyway and you'll just waste the cops time and invite such antics to possibly happen.

I got robbed at gun point once and the cops spent the whole time trying to "trip me up" and get me to change my story, I got interviewed about 10x in 2 days over and over and nothing ever came of it, except making ME feel like the crook. They were sure it was some kinda street deal gone bad or something, when in reality it was some random with a gun that got one over on me (I opened the door like a maroon without looking first...DOH)


J

[xenophobe]

AW registration is the process of sending a form with a check to the DOJ and receiving a confirmation letter. If your brother never received a confirmation letter from the DOJ with an Assault Weapon Registration Number and the particular firearm listed, then it may not be registered, even if the paperwork was sent in before the deadline.

Your brother would need to CALL the DOJ on the phone, ask if they have his records and check if they've been processed, or if they are still being held because of a discrepancy on the forms.

Many people's registration paperwork that was either not complete or had info that was missing or subject to DOJ confusion was put in a box and set aside. These registration documents were never entered into the computer, waiting for the owner to contact them to correct any mistakes that might be on them.

Once he takes care of this, if they find his paperwork was submitted before the deadline, they will issue an Assault Weapon Registration Confirmation letter. Then he will take the AW confirmation letter to the police, and they will release the firearm, as long as there isn't any other charges pending.

IF your brother mistakenly thought that filling out paperwork at a gun shop was "registration" he will most likely need to prove that he purchased the firearm before the ban. If he does not, then he may face felony charges.

That is how it works with DOJ and in Santa Clara County.

If your brother needs a contact number for AW Registration at DOJ, PM me and I'll give you that number to call to straighten out any paperwork, if he did indeed send his registration in.

[vg247]

Thanks for all your responses- I have confirmed with my brother and yes it for the AW registration, I have advised him to contact the DOJ in hopes of straightening things out--the police did call DOJ and the police told him the DOJ had nothing on file.

Funny thing is that he told me a sheriff had stopped him and ran the gun before and there was no problem approx 2 years ago.

[vg247]

btw- my bro did mention that he was able to find the original sales receipt to show the police and yet still...

[xenophobe]

The original sales receipt would just turn the wobbler (felony or misdemeanor possession) to the lesser crime.

What he needs is his AW Registration Confirmation letter. I find it a bit odd that he would have the original receipt, but not his AW Reg papers...

[bwiese]

If you need a lawyer familar w/AW law and SJ processes, contact law offices of Donald J. Kilmer - on Lincoln Ave in SJ. He's in the phone book.

[dwtt]

Wow, AB2728 is looking a lot worse now, isn't it?
If your brother bought the CAR-15 from a dealer, then there's no disputing he bought it since the ATF can find this out in about an hour. Don't ask me how I know. As for registration, the DOJ might or might not have a record of your brother registering the rifle, but I suspect SJ PD is no better tha SFPD and the cops didn't even call the DOJ and wanted to confiscate the rifle. It's now up to your brother to prove he didn't violate the law, which isn't how the system is supposed to work. What bothers me is that the cop wouldn't give any receipt or acknowledgement that the rifle is being confiscated. It would be wise to get the case report for the burglary and see if indeed the cop wrote down that the rifle was confiscated. If the report doesn't mention the rifle at all, get an attorney at that point and don't waste time with getting the DOJ's help. Just my opinion.

Edit: I just thought of a worse case. If your brother goes to the police station with his registration papers and asks for his rifle back, the cops might say "Rifle? What rifle?" . Would it be good insurance to bring a small hand held recorder to record the conversation?

[vg247]

thanks gents- good (temporary news)--my brother found his AW registration..now let's see what happens next. I did advise him to get legal help because it does seem scary the cop refused to give receipt for taking the gun into possession..

Will keep you posted..and feel free to shoot any further advice..Thanks

[blacklisted]

thanks gents- good (temporary news)--my brother found his AW registration..now let's see what happens next. I did advise him to get legal help because it does seem scary the cop refused to give receipt for taking the gun into possession..

Will keep you posted..and feel free to shoot any further advice..Thanks

If I was in this situation, and if they did not give it back after seeing the registration confirmation, then I would assume that they are trying to steal the rifle (and mags). He should hire an attorney immediately. It would be unfortunate if the rifle got "lost in the system" because the officers involved did not give him a receipt.

Hopefully, things will work out and he will get it back when they see the registration.

[artherd]

Your brother needs to hire an attorney right now, I recommend Donald Kilmer (he's local, pro 2a big time, in the phone book.) Or Trutanich-Michel, LLP in LA. Ask for Jason or Chuck.

Siezure of your property without a property recipt, on the spot, is probably theft. You may have a cause fo action against the department.

[ibbryn]

In this situation when a police office asks if there are any weapons in the house after a burglery, does anyone object to someone respoinding, "Yes, all legally owned. I've confirmed they are still secure" and not discussing the guns that weren't stolen anymore?

Do you have an obligation to tell the police what guns you own when they come into your house? What about if they were there to investigate you? Can't you just say that subject is not relevant and you don't want to discuss it? If they insist, that they should speak to your lawyer?

[Dont Tread on Me]

In this situation when a police office asks if there are any weapons in the house after a burglery, does anyone object to someone respoinding, "Yes, all legally owned. I've confirmed they are still secure" and not discussing the guns that weren't stolen anymore?


I would assume that unless they are out in plain sight you are under no obligation to go and get them out of the safe and show them to the officer.

I'm moving from a propolice perspective to one where I do not trust the them and will not intereact with them without a lawyer present. I wonder how many other gun owners are moving that way.

[Fjold]

Make copies of the original receipt and the AW registration and use that to deal with the police.

Never give the originals to the police.

[kantstudien]

"Do you have any weapons in the house?"

"Nope"



I would guess that the PD ran the serial number wrong. That puts your brother in a world of poo.

[Dont Tread on Me]

"Do you have any weapons in the house?"
"Nope"


There is a big difference between lying and refusing to comment. Just like Israel and the possession of nuclear weapons.

Do you have weapons in the house.
No comment.

[50 Freak]

That's why I keep my AW's in a safe. If my house is burgarlized, I'd doubt they could get through my safe in enough time before the neighbors called the cops. And if they tried carrying it out....Good luck......

Either way, if I invite the LE's into the house to take a report after the burglary, if asked if there were guns in the house, I'd say yes. If asked to see the guns, I'd say no...."they are perfectly fine in my safe as it was not touched"....If they insist....Time to tell them to get out and get a warrant....And a phone call to their Captain and the Mayor will follow very quickly.

[blacklisted]

There is a big difference between lying and refusing to comment. Just like Israel and the possession of nuclear weapons.

Do you have weapons in the house.
No comment.

Officer: Sir, do you have any weapons in your house?

Person: Why yes, officer. I have 24 sharpened knives in my kitchen, of which 6 are serrated. I have two baseball bats, one aluminum and one wood. I have eight dozen pencils, five boxcutters, a package of 40 replacement blades, and in my recycle bin I have 20 glass bottles that could be broken and used as weapons. In addition to these potential weapons, I have ...

Officer: sir, do you have any...

Person: three prybars, an electric carving knife, a chainsaw, three shovels, a pick, four hammers, two hatchets, three pairs of scissors, nailclippers...

Officer: DO YOU HAVE ANY GUNS IN THE HOUSE?

Person: If you wanted to know if I had any guns, why didn't you just ask? Yes, I have some guns. None of them are illegal, and they are all accounted for and secured in a safe. I'm afraid you will have to get a warrant if you want to inspect the contents of my safe, because I do not feel like opening it right now, nor would inspecting the firearms I own be relevant to your burglary investigation.

[rorschach]

No law says you gotta tell the cops the truth. You can lie to them all you want. If they are so inclined, they can charge you with interfering with an investigation, but I dont see how telling them there are no guns in the house would interfere with a burglary investigation, unless maybe the burglars MO is to hit people he knows to be gun owners, but that would be suicide on the part of the burglar. Criminals prefer unarmed victims.

Lying to a federal officer on the other hand....

[artherd]

Often times, (for instance, in any lawful vehicle stop) ONCE YOU TELL THEM YOU HAVE A GUN, a police officer MAY inspect the gun for compliance with safe storage requirements.

Generally, you also may not lie to officers. (degrees vary.)

The only option left is to refuse to comment. A 5th ammendment refusal to comment is not probable cause or reasonable suspicion for any search!

[hoffmang]

The best answer for a question that you don't wish to answer is another question.

"Do you have any weapons in the house?"

"Officer, why is that relevant to my missing television?"

-Gene

[artherd]

The best answer for a question that you don't wish to answer is another question.

"Do you have any weapons in the house?"

"Officer, why is that relevant to my missing television?"

-Gene
Very good.

[Rumpled]

As far as getting the rifle returned, (if SJPD admits to having it and it is all reg's) SJPD will now have to charge you $ to return your lawfully owned weapon. I understand LASD is charging $70 per firearm. As far as I know, there is no limit as in PPT charges.

[blacklisted]

As far as getting the rifle returned, (if SJPD admits to having it and it is all reg's) SJPD will now have to charge you $ to return your lawfully owned weapon. I understand LASD is charging $70 per firearm. As far as I know, there is no limit as in PPT charges.

He could probably submit a LEGR, which is only 20 dollars (I think).

[blackrazor]

Why anyone would ever speak to the cops without a lawyer is beyond me. The moral here is, know your enemy... let this be a lesson to you all.

[Rogerbutthead]

Keep your weapons in your safes. Just say no if they want you to open your safe(s).

A good attorney will ask for a retainer of several thousand dollars. If you have to fight to get the weapon(s) back, you can imagine that the cost will probably be greater than the value of the weapons that they "confiscate".

Be sure of what your insurance covers. I raised my insurance limits to cover my weapon collection - like 15 years ago. Years afterwards, they changed the rules to limit coverage to $1,000 in weapons total. I don't remember them telling me that. Also, if you file a claim against them, you can pretty much be sure that they will raise your rates. Mine are now double what they were before.

If the burglar left many items of value, you can be pretty sure he will come back. If you get an alarm system, be prepared for false alarms in the months (years) to come.

I hate burglars, they leave you with a sense of violation that, for me, has not left yet. :mad:

[faterikcartman]

This is why I'm glad they charged me $25 to register my .50's because even though I don't have proof it is registered (your originals mean jack squat if they say they have no record of it--it just proves you filled out that form at some unknown point in time), but I'll have proof they cashed my check.

[luvtolean]

This is why I'm glad they charged me $25 to register my .50's because even though I don't have proof it is registered (your originals mean jack squat if they say they have no record of it--it just proves you filled out that form at some unknown point in time), but I'll have proof they cashed my check.

You need to contact the DOJ.

They got those registered letters out quickly...

You also shouldn't talk about this in public.

[Rob454]

If you get an alarm system, be prepared for false alarms in the months (years) to come.



Thats BS. I have a alarm system and it only went off 3x in the 10 years I had it. It was because of two kittens my wife brought home and I forgot about them. I also install alarm systems and fire life safety. If its a good alarm system ( not some radio shack system) it will be fine for a long time. The ONLY time you get false alarms is when you have loose window frames or doors, or the wiring is being chewed by rodents or the motion detectors are set too sensitive or you have lots of moving plants due to air current ( IE leaving your ac on.

Rob

[nosewitdot]

any updates on the situation? i know he found the papers? did the cops give the rifle back?

[Rogerbutthead]

In the past 9 months that I have had my alarm system, It has gone off once (at 1:30AM) scaring the crap out of me (some sort of failure of a sensor) and my neighbors have called me from work once - must have been a car alarm that they thought was my house. Still had to check it out - go home from work - even though the alarm company said nothing was going off - can't ignore my neighbors being watchful for me.

So my two examples (and I know that only one was the fault of the alarm system) in 9 months to me - was more than I expected.

I hope I only have 3 false alarms in ten years.

[faterikcartman]

You need to contact the DOJ.

They got those registered letters out quickly...

You also shouldn't talk about this in public.

??? I have no idea what you mean.

I have copies of my originals. I'm just giving you my opinion that your originals don't mean anything if the DOJ says they never got them. I sent mine overnight so I have a tracking number as well and the cancelled check will be the best proof as what are they going to tell the judge, they cashed my check for a donation?

When registering the .50's they charged money and I'm glad they did.

When we all registered AW's it was free and you could even do it through a fax machine. I read a lot of folks here talking about carrying copies of their registration papers and I'm just observing that if the DOJ "lost" your papers your copies wouldn't mean anything in court. That is because you could have filled them out the last night and back dated them.

If you are making a point I don't understand please elaborate or PM me because I'm certainly curious.

If you're saying the DOJ sent out registered confirmation letters after the .50 registration process well then those SOB's took my money and gave me the shaft!

[xenophobe]

They got those registered letters out quickly...

I know many people who received their paperwork six months to a year later, as well as some who never received their paperwork at all. I've helped at least a dozen people who never received their paperwork to getting the ball rolling that got their confirmations up to 5 or 6 years later...

If you still haven't gotten your confirmation letter and did send in your application before the deadline, that just means they never processed your forms. That means there is a problem that needs to be corrected, that they couldn't handle themselves. Your application will be stored in a file until you contact them to find out what the problem is and correct it. After the problem is fixed, a confirmation letter will be sent.

[GW]

One thing I did was keep the cancelled check from when I registered. I never received my paper but having the cancelled check made the search easier and now I have my paperwork. See if you can find that record. If it exists get a copy and you have some proof that you took care of business

I seem to recall that if they cashed the check it meant they processed the paperwork. I note here that I sent the check 12/30/00 but it didn't get cashed until April '01. My guess on that is that they had only 1 or 2 people handling all the papers

[bwiese]

In very late 2000 I sent my reg forms in certified mail/return receipt - along with a check.

I didn't get my paperwork until sometime in March.

[PIRATE14]

My paper work took over 9 mos and there are still a few discrepancies, 6 years later.......but you know......:eek:

[luvtolean]

I know many people who received their paperwork six months to a year later, as well as some who never received their paperwork at all.

For .50s or AWs?

I'm specifically referring to .50s. There weren't nearly as many of them registered. I know a few that did these and they were processed quickly.

The 2000 stuff, I have no doubt with all the people registering guns it was a heck of a mess...

Either way, we agree on the important point. He needs to get it sorted and get his confirmation or risk the exact thing that started this thread.

[faterikcartman]

For .50s or AWs?

I'm specifically referring to .50s. There weren't nearly as many of them registered. I know a few that did these and they were processed quickly.

The 2000 stuff, I have no doubt with all the people registering guns it was a heck of a mess...

Either way, we agree on the important point. He needs to get it sorted and get his confirmation or risk the exact thing that started this thread.


Well this was all news to me so I'm talking to my wife about it on the phone and I'm complaining F-ing DOJ this, F-ing DOJ that, blah blah blah, they never sent me confirmation and they were supposed to and my wife cuts in and says she saw something in the mail weeks ago and I should check such and such stack of mail in a particular drawer and sure enough -- there it was!

So I DID get confirmation about the .50's.

Now please help me remember what the heck happened in 1999 (or was it 2000?) with the AW's.

I'm pretty sure I registered via fax which I'm pretty positive was allowed at the time. Was there a fee back then? I have no idea whether I sent anything in at that time and am almost positive I didn't get confirmation in the mail.

I would really appreciate anyone who remembers the procedure clearly to give me a heads up so I can get my #$%@! in order.

Thanks again luvtolean; as a two person household I don't always see all the mail and that document could easily have been tossed or shredded someday.

Now to double check the AW stuff. Good grief!

[zatoh]

-- there it was!

So I DID get confirmation about the .50's.

Now please help me remember what the heck happened in 1999 (or was it 2000?) with the AW's.

I'm pretty sure I registered via fax which I'm pretty positive was allowed at the time. Was there a fee back then? I have no idea whether I sent anything in at that time and am almost positive I didn't get confirmation in the mail.

I would really appreciate anyone who remembers the procedure clearly to give me a heads up so I can get my #$%@! in order.

Thanks again luvtolean; as a two person household I don't always see all the mail and that document could easily have been tossed or shredded someday.

No to double check the AW stuff. Good grief!
There was a fee involved, something like $9 (?) for 20 guns which I think was many that would fit on the card. If you received your 50BMG registered "gun-o-phile" confirmation letter then attached to that should be a copy of the original confirmation letter that was sent to you which lists the AW stuff that were previously registered. At least that's what was sent to me.

Good luck!

[artherd]

For .50BMG Rifle:

I sent in my check (have copy of cancled check) and reg form (have copy of form) CMRR (Certified Mail, Return Recipt Requested, have the green return recipt which holds evidentary standards in CA.).

I recieved my confirmation docs in around 1 week, very quick turnaround.

PS: If you registerd a .50, and also have registered AWs, then your .50 documents will inculde a list of ALL .50BMG/AWs currently registered to you.


For .50s or AWs?

I'm specifically referring to .50s. There weren't nearly as many of them registered. I know a few that did these and they were processed quickly.

The 2000 stuff, I have no doubt with all the people registering guns it was a heck of a mess...

Either way, we agree on the important point. He needs to get it sorted and get his confirmation or risk the exact thing that started this thread.

[faterikcartman]

There was a fee involved, something like $9 (?) for 20 guns which I think was many that would fit on the card. If you received your 50BMG registered "gun-o-phile" confirmation letter then attached to that should be a copy of the original confirmation letter that was sent to you which lists the AW stuff that were previously registered. At least that's what was sent to me.

Good luck!

I should know better that haste makes waste!

I took out the .50BMG papers and took the time to look at the bottom sheet and sure enough, just like you said, there were the AWs listed as properly registered.

Sorry for all the panic gang. Boy I'm embarrassed, but at least everything is A J squared away.

Thanks for all the great info and thanks to my wife for remembering that damn letter from the DOJ!

DOH!

I also realized why I never saw the letter before. I registered the guns via my home address but they sent the confirmation to the address on my drivers license--which is a P.O. Box, which only the spouse ever checks.

I hope when they decide to raid my home so they can take my Jewish wife to Islamic "sensitivity" camp they raid my post office box!

[Builder]

In very late 2000 I sent my reg forms in certified mail/return receipt - along with a check. I didn't get my paperwork until sometime in March.
Back in/around 1990, the R-R said "AR-15" but mine was a Palmetto AR-15, and I sure as heck didn't want any trouble so I registered it. Never got a letter back as they didn't say that they would. Detoured away and then returned to guns but wondered about the AW registration. So I called DOJ, they found it and sent me the paperwork in 2003.:D

[xenophobe]

I'm pretty sure I registered via fax which I'm pretty positive was allowed at the time. Was there a fee back then? I have no idea whether I sent anything in at that time and am almost positive I didn't get confirmation in the mail.

I would really appreciate anyone who remembers the procedure clearly to give me a heads up so I can get my #$%@! in order.

There was never a registration that allowed faxes. The registration cards for the .50 BMG were very similar to the SB-23 forms, and you needed to submit $20 and a thumbprint for as many rifles as you had to register.

If you did not physically mail in a registration form, you did not register for SB-23 or RR'89.

[faterikcartman]

There was never a registration that allowed faxes. The registration cards for the .50 BMG were very similar to the SB-23 forms, and you needed to submit $20 and a thumbprint for as many rifles as you had to register.

If you did not physically mail in a registration form, you did not register for SB-23 or RR'89.

I distinctly remember the fax registration for the AW's. I did it and had to call them the next day (after the deadline) because I couldn't get through to their fax machine. They said don't worry and fax it again as lot's of folks were having that problem.

Must have worked as they had them listed with the .50 paperwork.

I'll double check with my wife since she was their and she may tell me I'm imagining things.

[vg247]

Hi All- 1.) thanks for all your input, 2.) I wanted to share my bro's story with you all so you know what/how cops are like when you are only a law abiding citizen who is the victim made suspect by the cops. 3.)My bro has his ppw for the AW however after a detailed report from him, not only was he burglarized at home; (temporarily burgalarized by the SJPD of his firearm) but there are many other factors where the PD had done him wrong and is better left unsaid in this open forum for now...I promise to keep everyone updated as soon as "things are resolved" (if you know what I mean...litigation)so that you all can protect yourselves and your 2nd Amendment rights from those who have sworn to protect and serve us(NOT).

Ironic thing here is that my brother is not even a big firearm buff, he doesn't even shoot his rifle or even has forum memberships...and yet these things happen!

[Rob454]

I dont see the big deal about him bringing out his problem with the PD and the consequences. Some people on the forum have told him to keep quiet and not to bring out the problems in a forum. Last I checked this was a free country not nazy germany or some dictatorship and Freedom of speech was a right not a privilege.
Rob

[hoffmang]

Our maligned citizen may want to preserve some of his litigation advantages by not letting the cat out of the bag before his counsel files certain things.

Lets all just wait for a post mortem.

-Gene

[C123K_LoadMaster]

Here is a copy of the Assault Weapon Application I scanned in. I left the Caliber and Barrel Length areas blank on my application so there would not be any issues if I wanted to change the caliber or barrel length on any of my registered AW’s.

http://www.fototime.com/F77A774ED9F7220/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/0ABCB7786950C08/orig.jpg

[xenophobe]

I distinctly remember the fax registration for the AW's. I did it and had to call them the next day (after the deadline) because I couldn't get through to their fax machine. They said don't worry and fax it again as lot's of folks were having that problem.

Must have worked as they had them listed with the .50 paperwork.

I'll double check with my wife since she was their and she may tell me I'm imagining things.

There was no fax registration, and you could not pay by credit card. Check or Money Order only... I was working at SJGE at the time and I helped a lot of customers fill out these forms. Look at the form posted. I was going to scan one of my originals, but as you see, no provisions to fax, especially with the need for a thumbprint.

Also, any corrections, modifications or deletions to your registered AWs needs to be done by mail. You must write then and request specifics... like changing/correcting manufacturer or model, and correcting serial numbers as well as removing a weapon from your list. All of this needs to be done by mail.

If your paperwork was not postmarked Dec 31 2000 (for all SB-23 non-series weapons) or Jan 23 2001 (for AR and AK series rifles), then your registration was not validated, and you may likely never get confirmation letters. They may have allowed a few people with later postmarks register out of kindness, but they were not required to do so..

[faterikcartman]

There was no fax registration, and you could not pay by credit card. Check or Money Order only... I was working at SJGE at the time and I helped a lot of customers fill out these forms. Look at the form posted. I was going to scan one of my originals, but as you see, no provisions to fax, especially with the need for a thumbprint.

Also, any corrections, modifications or deletions to your registered AWs needs to be done by mail. You must write then and request specifics... like changing/correcting manufacturer or model, and correcting serial numbers as well as removing a weapon from your list. All of this needs to be done by mail.

If your paperwork was not postmarked Dec 31 2000 (for all SB-23 non-series weapons) or Jan 23 2001 (for AR and AK series rifles), then your registration was not validated, and you may likely never get confirmation letters. They may have allowed a few people with later postmarks register out of kindness, but they were not required to do so..

I verified that YES there was fax registration for AWs in 2000. I did it. I asked my wife this question "about five or six years ago I had to register some assault rifles, do you remember how I did it?" (note that I've never discussed this with her since that time), she said "yes, you faxed it in. I remember you were going nuts because their fax machine wouldn't answer and the midnight deadline was approaching."

I HAVE found my registration confirmation.

There must have been a program discussed on the DOJ's website at the time for people who were last-minute folks like me. It is probable I later sent in a paper form, but the only thing I sent in close to the deadline was a fax.

Remember, the purpose wasn't to make registration hard, but to make it easy to make sure they knew who had them. How can they know where you live when they want to go get them if they couldn't get you to register?

[vg247]

Thank you all for your insights and input..apologies on the delayed outcome response as my brother was awaiting legal process for his ordeal.

After 9mos later, enlisting an attorney, spending 3-4x the amount of his gun on the attorney...going back and forth with the DOJ...finally they have returned his firearm; unfortunately his attorney fees couldnt be recovered.

For those who have been following this case- lesson here is be aware of your rights from "police search and seizure"

[simonov]

For those who have been following this case- lesson here is be aware of your rights from "police search and seizure"

Gosh, and here I thought that all we had to do was make sure everything was legal and we had nothing to fear from the JBTs!

Guess that's not quite the case!

[HK fan]

Well, we all knew it could happen, and it did, love that abuse under color of authority.

Tell your brother good luck getting them back but if he wants it back, he better find the paperwork, and even then, snowball's chance in Hades.

Abuse under color of authority?? The only thing wrong I see is that the officers did not provide a detailed receipt for the CAR-15. I'm sure they have heard it a thousand times "I can't find my paperwork". Especially if they took over 2 hours on the phone trying to confirm the gun was registered.

I think his brother should have no trouble getting the gun back when he finds the paperwork/registration. Abuse of authority would have been if they cuffed him and put him in the patrol car for those two hours.

after reading through and seeing it took 9 months and an attorney... now that's just plain wrong. Why in the world does it have to be like that? Is anyone accountable?

[triggerhappy]

Does he have his AW registration paperwork? He should keep original in safety deposit box and copies in safe, car, truck...

DOJ recordkeeping on AWs may have flaws in recorded serial numbers and makes/models - some brands are 'translated' into others. Sometimes serial numbers got trucated, or the owner submitted the serial number but not , say, an alphanumeric prefix.

San Jose PD doesn't have a great record with knowning what is & isn't an assault weapon.

[I assume the reg means the 2000 AW reg, and not the 4473/DROS when he bought it in 1999 or earlier?]

'Weapons? You don't need to know about any weapons." It works every time.

[SemiAutoSam]

What if the cops aren't Imperial Storm troopers what then ?
http://a.photos.cx/mf_anh1080p_duke115-5bc.png

'Weapons? You don't need to know about any weapons." It works every time.

[Bill_in_SD]

No, its "These are not the AWs you are seeking" (waves hand in Stormtrooper direction)

Always, always leave a dozen donuts on the kitchen counter..... ;)

Bill in SD

[vg247]

What "Bweise" said, "DOJ recordkeeping on AWs may have flaws in recorded serial numbers and makes/models - some brands are 'translated' into others. Sometimes serial numbers got trucated, or the owner submitted the serial number but not , say, an alphanumeric prefix.

San Jose PD doesn't have a great record with knowning what is & isn't an assault weapon"

...was exactly on the dot, based on what I was told throughout the case the DOJ couldnt dig up the serial # bc of poor record keeping regarding #'s and alpha prefixes..it wasnt until the attorney prompted them to try various combinations did the rifle come up with my brother's name.

1.) Though most would think it foolish of him to dish out the cash 3-4x the rifle to get it back, I believe this shows the SJPD and DOJ that we pro 2nd amendment rightful gun owners mean business and will not stand for their bungling "Storm Trooper methods"

2.) It further exemplifies that the PD sworn to protect and serve are really NOT..victimizing the victim? Moreover, the DOJ is not very helpful even in times needed to preserve the laws they created...mishandling/data input of serial #'s, false scare tactics on legality of OLL's,etc.

3.) KNOW your rights evenmore gun rights, tell them to all your family, friends, and community members...be proactive and never stand down to anyone's tyranny!

4.) Be an NRA member, -bro's attorney knocked of 15% of fees!

[rkt88edmo]

Good news.

[LECTRIKHED]

No receipt! I think it is time to get a lawyer now. It makes me sick to think that if the cops do search my house they might confiscate my standard cap mags. Perhaps my SU16 and M1A will look evil to them and they will grab them too.

I'm very sorry to hear about what happened here. I hope the only good side is that this thread can reveal what to do to stop the cops from seeing your guns and what to do if they take them.

Your brother should put a sign up in-front of his house. "Robbed twice today. Once by unknown individuals. Once by the PD"

The police examined my SU-16CA once. They played with it for a while and then just put it back down. I could tell that they wished it was illegal or they were admiring it. I was greatfull though that these police officer understood gun laws and did not freak out. I have the feeling that if I had an OLL I would have gone to jail that day.

[pnkssbtz]

Did he get his mags back and did he at least get an apology from the confiscating officer? I would be all up that pollice chiefs posterior with complaints.

[vg247]

Yes -he received everything originally taken with the gun back including magazines.

No word of apology from any of the officers, nor the SJPD, DA, or DOJ...he looked into "making noise about this" with the PD-- so that similar incidents do not occur to other citizens..however he was advised(legally) that as previously mentioned somewhere in this topic., that it would 1.) be the police (4 officers) words against his that he gave consent to open the locked and unloaded rifle case(despite being under duress)-"he was coersed into doing so" 2.) the PD may just say it's not their problem the firearm's serial didnt turn up when they checked so it was procedure to confiscate it 3.)the DOJ after finally identifying their mistake made no formal apology except "sorry for the incovenience" and it was not until maybe 6mos into the matter that something come up in their system follwing the attorney's proactive prompts for them to try various searches of serial #'s and alphabet combo's....Also legally advised was the fact that a jury would stand on the PD's side with for of them backing each other up over 1 civilian

[JALLEN]

A couple of comments on various issues...

1. If your firearm is reported stolen, the LEGR fee is waived.

2. The feeling that you cannot trust the cops serves you well, sad to say. Not only can you not trust them on the scene, but they will very likely put statements in the reports that are inaccurate as well. All too often, the inaccuracies support events they wished had happened. I no longer give statements to police except in writing. Video-taping is a really good idea.

3. AFAIK, the police have the right to inspect firearms only if you have them in public. If the guns are in your house, out of sight, the cops have no right to inspect them.

4. Snatching guns from honest law-abiding citizens is much safer than going after the gangbangers, where those goons might get violent and hurt somebody! But it all looks the same in the statistics used to support bigger budgets. "Our brave hard-working officers seized xxx guns during the 4th quarter..."

[USMC_2651_E5]

I dont know why they inspected the weapon or the reason why a receipt was not given, but asking about weapons before clearing a house that was burglarized is good practice. You want to know what you may be going up against if you find a burglar inside. I know that if the cops were trying to be jerks or do your brother wrong they would of arrested him for possessing an assault weapon. And they would of had probable cause too. Besides inspecting and not giving a receipt, their actions were reasonable in confiscating (to later be returned after checking out) and not arresting. That being said, 9 months seems excessive and I wouldn't like my rifle being held that long. I guess this was an expensive lesson to always keep your paperwork available. I bet they wouldn't have taken the rifle if he had the paperwork to present at the time of the inspection. I know I wouldn't confiscate it. Just my two cents.

[KenpoProfessor]

I dont know why they inspected the weapon or the reason why a receipt was not given, but asking about weapons before clearing a house that was burglarized is good practice. You want to know what you may be going up against if you find a burglar inside. I know that if the cops were trying to be jerks or do your brother wrong they would of arrested him for possessing an assault weapon. And they would of had probable cause too. Besides inspecting and not giving a receipt, their actions were reasonable in confiscating (to later be returned after checking out) and not arresting. That being said, 9 months seems excessive and I wouldn't like my rifle being held that long. I guess this was an expensive lesson to always keep your paperwork available. I bet they wouldn't have taken the rifle if he had the paperwork to present at the time of the inspection. I know I wouldn't confiscate it. Just my two cents.

What you're saying is that it is reasonable to steal a gun for 9 months for officer protection though no indication that anything illegal was going on? Sounds like a 4th and 5th amendment issue needs to be addressed.

If you find a firearm in a house that was burglarized, be lucky it was still there and not stolen. The ONLY reason an officer should ask if there are guns in the house while investigating a burlary is to ensure the guns were not stolen. Nuff said, Your paperz please:mad:

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[USMC_2651_E5]

I'm not trying to say all the actions of the officers were right. But I believe they should know if there are weapons in the house when they are getting ready to clear it for burglars in case of ambush.

Taking the weapon for nine months was not for officer protection. It was because it was an assault weapon and registration could not be verified by the owner or DOJ. In my opinion (which is just that and is worth nothing) he is lucky that he was not arrested when DOJ said that it wasn't registered.

I do believe that 9 months was excessive to verify the status of the rifle. I dont know what the delay was. I would think, and this is speculation, that the rifle would be returned when the registration was presented.

[KenpoProfessor]

I'm not trying to say all the actions of the officers were right. But I believe they should know if there are weapons in the house when they are getting ready to clear it for burglars in case of ambush.

Taking the weapon for nine months was not for officer protection. It was because it was an assault weapon and registration could not be verified by the owner or DOJ. In my opinion (which is just that and is worth nothing) he is lucky that he was not arrested when DOJ said that it wasn't registered.

I do believe that 9 months was excessive to verify the status of the rifle. I dont know what the delay was. I would think, and this is speculation, that the rifle would be returned when the registration was presented.

As I said before, the only reason an officer should ask if there are guns is to assure they weren't stolen in the robbery. If they should find a gun that APPEARS illegal, they should call and get a warrant for it's seizure if they can't prove it was registered at the time. Once a warrant was issued they can go back and retrieve the rifle. At that time, the owner will hopefully have produced his registration and it goes no further. If not able to produce reg. or legal configuration within the PRK, the rifle could then be seized until such time as reg. or legality is produced and the rifle returned IMMEDIATELY. Seems reasonable yes?

Like I said, the officers seizing the weapon working on a presumption of guilt in this matter where innocence should be first. They were investigating a crime to the victim and made him a victim of robbery yet again.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[Biff...]

In this case, when the brother was asked if he had any weapons could he have said "I have no illegal weapons" and refuse to show anything to the leo's.

[USMC_2651_E5]

As I said before, the only reason an officer should ask if there are guns is to assure they weren't stolen in the robbery. If they should find a gun that APPEARS illegal, they should call and get a warrant for it's seizure if they can't prove it was registered at the time. Once a warrant was issued they can go back and retrieve the rifle. At that time, the owner will hopefully have produced his registration and it goes no further. If not able to produce reg. or legal configuration within the PRK, the rifle could then be seized until such time as reg. or legality is produced and the rifle returned IMMEDIATELY. Seems reasonable yes?

Like I said, the officers seizing the weapon working on a presumption of guilt in this matter where innocence should be first. They were investigating a crime to the victim and made him a victim of robbery yet again.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


I respect your opinion, but please dont ask me to come to your house and look for potential violent felons that may be hiding with the contents of your safe without telling me that your safe contents could kill me. If Im not mistaken, the first post stated that the cops "cleared" the home. If I understand the poster's meaning of "cleared" (my interpretation--protective sweep), than I believe the officers deserve to know if there are weapons in the house.

The situation sounds like the cops were given access to the rifle when they asked. Sounds like consent to me, and therefore no 4A violation. Furthermore, when DOJ told the cops it was unregistered, they didnt need anymore PC to arrest the owner...but the cops didn't. It sounds like they were giving him the benefeit of doubt by not hauling him off right then and choosing to secure the "unregistered" AW until the owner could prove it was registered. Frankly, even if the owner had paperwork, he could still be arrested if DOJ said it was not registered. It could be fraudulent paperwork. I'm not saying this is right or that I would do this, but it is possible.

I think the blame of the seizure lies with DOJ and their record system.

[USMC_2651_E5]

In this case, when the brother was asked if he had any weapons could he have said "I have no illegal weapons" and refuse to show anything to the leo's.

He could have.

[lazuris]

think the blame of the seizure lies with DOJ and their record system.

I think the blame lies with a bunch of f'd up laws that treat lawful citizens like gang bangers so that a crazy grandmother from north california can become speaker of the house.

[KenpoProfessor]

I respect your opinion, but please dont ask me to come to your house and look for potential violent felons that may be hiding with the contents of your safe without telling me that your safe contents could kill me. If Im not mistaken, the first post stated that the cops "cleared" the home. If I understand the poster's meaning of "cleared" (my interpretation--protective sweep), than I believe the officers deserve to know if there are weapons in the house.

The situation sounds like the cops were given access to the rifle when they asked. Sounds like consent to me, and therefore no 4A violation. Furthermore, when DOJ told the cops it was unregistered, they didnt need anymore PC to arrest the owner...but the cops didn't. It sounds like they were giving him the benefeit of doubt by not hauling him off right then and choosing to secure the "unregistered" AW the owner could prove it was registered. Frankly, even if the owner had paperwork, he could still be arrested if DOJ said it was not registered. It could be fraudulent paper. Im not saying this is right or that I would do this, but it is possible.

I think the blame of the seizure lies with DOJ and their record system.


It's incidents like these that create hostile attitudes towards LEOs, and the honest, law abiding citizen will become intolerant and refuse to cooperate with LE in future dealing, and encourage others to take that stand as well. Sheesh, we all have, and I don't think there's anybody here going to relinquish their 4th and 5th amendment rights when we hear stories like this. You can be sure that many people will not call the cops after a robbery for fear of something exactly like this happening, and if guns are stolen, the owner will just write it off and lock them up more carefully next time and will never get LEOs involved in the process. The only reason most law abiding citizens call to report a burlary in the first place is for insurance purposes, but if calling the police will result in yet another robbery of your property, what's the point?

I agree, much of the blame goes to DOJ, but DOJ didn't steal the rifle without a reciept and hold it hostage for nine months until the man could prove his innocence.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[USMC_2651_E5]

It's incidents like these that create hostile attitudes towards LEOs, and the honest, law abiding citizen will become intolerant and refuse to cooperate with LE in future dealing, and encourage others to take that stand as well. Sheesh, we all have, and I don't think there's anybody here going to relinquish their 4th and 5th amendment rights when we hear stories like this. You can be sure that many people will not call the cops after a robbery for fear of something exactly like this happening, and if guns are stolen, the owner will just write it off and lock them up more carefully next time and will never get LEOs involved in the process. The only reason most law abiding citizens call to report a burlary in the first place is for insurance purposes, but if calling the police will result in yet another robbery of your property, what's the point?

I agree, much of the blame goes to DOJ, but DOJ didn't steal the rifle without a reciept and hold it hostage for nine months until the man could prove his innocence.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Clyde,

I agree that it should not have been taken (given all the facts) and there should have been a receipt, but the cops had no proof that it was legitimately registered and in fact had DOJ tell them it wasn't...What were they supposed to do with it?

[KenpoProfessor]

Clyde,

I agree that it should not have been taken (given all the facts) and there should have been a receipt, but the cops had no proof that it was legitimately registered and in fact had DOJ tell them it wasn't...What were they supposed to do with it?

As I said before, is it too much to call for a warrant for seizure?

Point is, what would you have done? Or better yet, WWJD:D, I know, I'm being funny here as well to keep any hostilities from popping up :p

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[USMC_2651_E5]

Instead of being so anti LEO, why dont people be hostile towards the B.S. laws that cause situations like these. If there was no AW ban and no required registration, the cops wouldn't have taken the rifle...they still understandably would have asked if he had weapons in the house for their safety.

[USMC_2651_E5]

As I said before, is it too much to call for a warrant for seizure?

Point is, what would you have done? Or better yet, WWJD:D, I know, I'm being funny here as well to keep any hostilities from popping up :p

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Dont tell my boss, but If this guy seemed to be an upstanding citizen, I would have done nothing besides take the burglary report.

In regards to the warrant, it wasnt needed. The cops had consent to be there and consent to see the rifle. Once they have consent or one of the other exemptions for warrantless search (probable cause or exighence. sp?), they are not required to get a warrant.

And no worries or hostility...I'm just trying to get the cop version out there since I have a vested interest and dont want to be blanketed as one of "those guys."

[KenpoProfessor]

Dont tell my boss, but If this guy seemed to be an upstanding citizen, I would have done nothing besides take the burglary report.

In regards to the warrant, it wasnt needed. The cops had consent to be there and consent to see the rifle. Once they have consent or one of the other exemptions for warrantless search (probable cause or exighence. sp?), they are not required to get a warrant.

And no worries or hostility...I'm just trying to get the cop version out there since I have a vested interest and dont want to be blanketed as one of "those guys."

Actually, we all want to tell your boss, because you're the type of LEO we want on the street and in our houses when we have problems with the non law abiding. :D :D

Hey, I got accused of being anti LEO in the last thread about stuff like this because I posted a website from LAPD about inadequacies of firearms training.:chris: No worries here bro, and thanks for the answers, it's good to get these things out in the open for others to see and be aware.

You gotta admit though, incidents like these can cause normal people to go all sketchy.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[USMC_2651_E5]

You gotta admit though, incidents like these can cause normal people to go all sketchy.
Clyde

I fully admit...Thats why I try so hard to interpret and convey the cops reasoning and actions. I also admit that the fall out from these incidents open my eyes and helps me to better deal with the citizens I serve. Gotta go to bed now so I can be fresh for PM watch. Have a good Kenpo Day. :cheers2:

[schizrade2]

Instead of being so anti LEO, why dont people be hostile towards the B.S. laws that cause situations like these.

Hmmmm, maybe because the vast majority of cops see non-cops as "civilians". They have a protected status and they bully the rest of us with their authority. Personally, I would remove my weapons from my house, then call the cops. If they ask to see in my (now empty) safe, I will tell them to get a warrant and get out.

They are there to project their own power, and we are ALL suspects to them.

Don't want to believe me? Check out the various cops forum boards. They have outright contempt for "civilians". They get no cooperation from me.

[eta34]

Not all of us are like that Schizrade. I would say that the vast majority of us are normal people, just like you. We do our job and take it very seriously. Most us aren't bullies. I won't defend the small majority who are, but most of us are good people.

[Kestryll]

Not all of us are like that Schizrade. I would say that the vast majority of us are normal people, just like you. We do our job and take it very seriously. Most us aren't bullies. I won't defend the small majority who are, but most of us are good people.


Like any group the ones that get noticed are the bad ones even when they are a small minority.

How many good gun owners make the news or get interviewed?
Now how many gang bangers and idiots who shot themselves, their dog or both do you publicized?

Does this mean all gun owners are either gang bangers or idiots?

Generalizing about police is exactly the same as the antigunners generalizing about gun owners and usually done in the same manner.

[USMC_2651_E5]

Like any group the ones that get noticed are the bad ones even when they are a small minority.

How many good gun owners make the news or get interviewed?
Now how many gang bangers and idiots who shot themselves, their dog or both do you publicized?

Does this mean all gun owners are either gang bangers or idiots?

Generalizing about police is exactly the same as the antigunners generalizing about gun owners and usually done in the same manner.

Well said.

[Wulf]

I respect your opinion, but please dont ask me to come to your house and look for potential violent felons that may be hiding with the contents of your safe without telling me that your safe contents could kill me. If Im not mistaken, the first post stated that the cops "cleared" the home. If I understand the poster's meaning of "cleared" (my interpretation--protective sweep), than I believe the officers deserve to know if there are weapons in the house.


There's no valid officer safety rationale for asking that question. When clearing a house you do so with the assumption that the person hiding there is armed and dangerous. A yes or no answer should not change how he does his job.

Its not like if the homeowner doesn't own guns the officer can chat up his girlfriend on the bluetooth while he clears the house and plays pocket pool with both hands. Conversely, if the the homeowner is a gun owner he's not going to establish a perimeter and mobilize the SWAT team to see if the burglar is hiding in a closet.

[schizrade2]

There's no valid officer safety rationale for asking that question. When clearing a house you do so with the assumption that the person hiding there is armed and dangerous. A yes or no answer should not change how he does his job.

Its not like if the homeowner doesn't own guns the officer can chat up his girlfriend on the bluetooth while he clears the house and plays pocket pool with both hands. Conversely, if the the homeowner is a gun owner he's not going to establish a perimeter and mobilize the SWAT team to see if the burglar is hiding in a closet.

Because, YOU as a "civilian" are a suspect.

[scootergmc]

Like any group the ones that get noticed are the bad ones even when they are a small minority.

How many good gun owners make the news or get interviewed?
Now how many gang bangers and idiots who shot themselves, their dog or both do you publicized?

Does this mean all gun owners are either gang bangers or idiots?

Generalizing about police is exactly the same as the antigunners generalizing about gun owners and usually done in the same manner.

:iagree: I've said all this before.... but alas :hammer::banghead:

[Dont Tread on Me]

LEOS are just people. I get train with a lot at my martial art class and I've not discovered any horns or reptilian skin. Trust me I've checked just about every nuck and cranny.

We've got to understand that we elect anti gun politicians who then appoint police chiefs who have to carry out anti gun agendas to keep their jobs. Blaming LEOS for anti gun policies/procedures/trainning is getting things backwards. Elect the right politicians and we will get pro gun police procedures.

[6172crew]

Because, YOU as a "civilian" are a suspect.

This just doesnt explain all the Pro gun cops who are members on thi sboard along side of the many military, vets, and ca gun owners. Can you find any anti gun cops on this board or are you just finding the info you need to justify your opinion?

Anti gun folks dont last long around here so Im wondering why you are pointing out anti gun folks from other boards or why your not telling us the guys at DU or move on are the rule of thumb and not the exception...or are you just anti-copper?

[vg247]

Dont tell my boss, but If this guy seemed to be an upstanding citizen, I would have done nothing besides take the burglary report.

In regards to the warrant, it wasnt needed. The cops had consent to be there and consent to see the rifle. Once they have consent or one of the other exemptions for warrantless search (probable cause or exighence. sp?), they are not required to get a warrant.

And no worries or hostility...I'm just trying to get the cop version out there since I have a vested interest and dont want to be blanketed as one of "those guys."

I wanted to share to everyone this mishap so if anything we all learn and see what we could do to prevent this in the future if it occurred to us..also focusing on the gun seizure and not on other factors that deviate from the topic but:

I also wanted to share that my brother was off the day of the incident so he was dressed in shorts..and initially the police asked him "what are you doing at home (at noon), thereafter they asked him who's Jaguar is that you're driving...an hour after they were at his house they asked him what do you do (for a living)...he said he was a physician and gave them a copy of his MD license.

This shows the stereotype/ profiling' that these officers had in their minds, my bro's home is well kept might I add and nothing like a "crack house" either.

In addition, after they cleared the home and walked through with my bro, one senior officer said the Burglars broke his plasma TV when they kicked in a door; thereafter another rookie officer apologized to my brother that they accident broke the TV when they opened the door to clear the room , it slammed against the TV..he said the city has insurance for incidents of the sort caused accidentally' by police...** the claim filed with the city for the TV damage was rejected, the invesitgator said police have immunity while conducting police business for which they were at the house for...so that's the whole schpeal'...

[vg247]

I wanted to share to everyone this mishap so if anything we all learn and see what we could do to prevent this in the future if it occurred to us..also focusing on the gun seizure and not on other factors that deviate from the topic but:

I also wanted to share that my brother was off the day of the incident so he was dressed in shorts..and initially the police asked him "what are you doing at home (at noon), thereafter they asked him who's Jaguar is that you're driving...an hour after they were at his house they asked him what do you do (for a living)...he said he was a physician and gave them a copy of his MD license.

This shows the stereotype/ profiling' that these officers had in their minds, my bro's home is well kept might I add and nothing like a "crack house" either.

In addition, after they cleared the home and walked through with my bro, one senior officer said the Burglars broke his plasma TV when they kicked in a door; thereafter another rookie officer apologized to my brother that they accident broke the TV when they opened the door to clear the room , it slammed against the TV..he said the city has insurance for incidents of the sort caused accidentally' by police...** the claim filed with the city for the TV damage was rejected, the invesitgator said police have immunity while conducting police business for which they were at the house for...so that's the whole schpeal'...


Furthermore..when my bro noticed many out of place items, he had to prompt the officers to take pictures and fingerprints..they all just surrounded him and questioned the gun "which was locked/ unloaded/ and was the gun that he DID bring to their attention in the first place..with concern for their safety prior to clearing the house and concern it may be stolen,etc.

[pnkssbtz]

I wanted to share to everyone this mishap so if anything we all learn and see what we could do to prevent this in the future if it occurred to us..also focusing on the gun seizure and not on other factors that deviate from the topic but:

I also wanted to share that my brother was off the day of the incident so he was dressed in shorts..and initially the police asked him "what are you doing at home (at noon), thereafter they asked him who's Jaguar is that you're driving...an hour after they were at his house they asked him what do you do (for a living)...he said he was a physician and gave them a copy of his MD license.

This shows the stereotype/ profiling' that these officers had in their minds, my bro's home is well kept might I add and nothing like a "crack house" either.

In addition, after they cleared the home and walked through with my bro, one senior officer said the Burglars broke his plasma TV when they kicked in a door; thereafter another rookie officer apologized to my brother that they accident broke the TV when they opened the door to clear the room , it slammed against the TV..he said the city has insurance for incidents of the sort caused accidentally' by police...** the claim filed with the city for the TV damage was rejected, the invesitgator said police have immunity while conducting police business for which they were at the house for...so that's the whole schpeal'...

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

[Satex]

they still understandably would have asked if he had weapons in the house for their safety.

It seems like officers like to pull the "for our safety" flag for pretty much everything. In addition, we all know very well that officers are TRAINED to phrase questions so that any unsuscpecting person would give up their rights unknowingly.

[shekari]

WHY, does anyone in their right mind, EXIST (you sure can't call that living) in California anymore? Is the ammount of money you make worth it? I bet if you take into account the cost of addmission, you will find it's a lot less than you think you are making. How long are you going to stay there and support the social programs and fund the idiocy of that state.
BE FREE--- Move to Idaho or Utah or Washington state. YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN JUST EXIST!!
(Former California native now living in the free world)

[Richie Rich]

So, in response to a burgulary the LEOs managed to

1. Insult and question the homeowner like he was involved in something shady.
2. Confiscate his legally owned firearm and keep it for 9 months.
3. Break his plasma TV

The only thing they forgot to do is shoot his dog.

This sickens me.

And people wonder why folks in the ghetto "didn't see anything" whenever they are questioned by LEOs about a crime they may have been a witness to.

Most cops are power tripping egomaniacs who think they are above the law. It sucks that the good ones (like the LEOs who frequent this board) are lumped in with them.

The "US vs THEM" mindset that many LEOs have just seems to be getting worse as years go on.

Remember, I am from a LEO family so this is not just random bashing, it is a result of a 30 something years of experiences with LEOs.

Out of the 4 of them in my family, there are 2 I get along with really well, 1 I am neutral with and 1 who I think would cite me for driving 1mph over the limit if he caught me. Sadly, he is the one who is a gun nut, but thinks that only cops should be able to own them.

[wilit]

BE FREE--- Move to Idaho or Utah or Washington state. YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN JUST EXIST!!
(Former California native now living in the free world)

If you can keep it from snowing or reaching 100+ degrees in any of those states, let me know and I'll be happy to move. :cool2:

[Dont Tread on Me]

BE FREE--- Move to Idaho or Utah or Washington state. YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN JUST EXIST!!
(Former California native now living in the free world)

You got this backwards. Take a look at the Fed gov and you will find Nazi Peloski leading the house and bringing CA Soviet style values to the whole nation. We need you to move back here so politicians like her don't even get elected to head a small town's animal control department.

[shawnyteee]

Isn't lying to an officer of the law consider obstruction of justice even if you are not a suspect. I think you would only have 3 options. Lie to the officer, refuse to speak, or stray away from the truth.

[hoffmang]

Lying to a non federal officer when not the subject of an investigation (yet) is not illegal. However, due to stupid Federal laws and overzealous Federal prosecutions you should never make any statement to any Federal LEO ever.

-Gene

[Dont Tread on Me]

Lying to a non federal officer when not the subject of an investigation (yet) is not illegal. However, due to stupid Federal laws and overzealous Federal prosecutions you should never make any statement to any Federal LEO ever.

-Gene

+1. Or at least not without a lawyer, tape recorder, etc. etc.

[hoffmang]

I'll be clearer to agree with CA_Brit - all statements to Federal LEO - no matter how innocuous - should go through an attorney.

-Gene