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View Full Version : Minneapolis police chief: More guns? Frankly, that's preposterous


Swiss
02-03-2011, 10:30 AM
For the purpose of posting rebuttals...

From the Minneapolis Star Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/115066964.html


Minneapolis police chief: More guns? Frankly, that's preposterous

By TIMOTHY J. DOLAN
February 1, 2011

Commentary

It confounds me, in light of the Tucson tragedy and the fatal shootings already this year of more than 10 police officers, that gun advocates are claiming that we would be safer with more guns.

...
Timothy J. Dolan is chief of the Minneapolis Police Department.

© 2011 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.

Please do not post whole articles - see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=363956
// Librarian

Chadster
02-03-2011, 10:33 AM
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

CSACANNONEER
02-03-2011, 10:38 AM
If he is so against firearms, why did he choose a career which makes him carry one?

Chadster
02-03-2011, 10:41 AM
If he is so against firearms, why did he choose a career which makes him carry one?

Often times police chiefs DONT carry guns if they are a civilian. Remember the LAPD chief who didnt have or couldnt get a CCW ?

J.D.Allen
02-03-2011, 10:44 AM
I dispute his statistics. Isn't it great how "officials" never have to defend their preposterous statistical claims? Just like Bloombarf saying that the crime rate in New York is half what it is in Phoenix. Yeah? Where's your proof?

Sgt5811
02-03-2011, 10:57 AM
Statistics have fallen to the point that they are meaningless. Any statistic can be manipulated in the media to "prove" your side of the story. Oh yeah, Minniapoilis, MN? Are you serious? I'm pretty sure that his voice is just a whisper in the sea of gun supporters there. Too bad that he is a minority based on his unfounded beliefs.

stix213
02-03-2011, 11:09 AM
Its always good to post a pro-2a comment in these articles. Makes the anti's at least realize not everyone has fallen for their group think.

Here's mine:

You're being a blatant hypocrite when you tell everyone they don't need guns for protection, as you yourself have a job where you have a loaded gun on your hip and benefit from Law Enforcement exemptions allowing you to legally conceal carry anywhere in the USA without a permit. Kinda a situation where you got your gun, so it would be safer for you if you were the only one right? Some animals are more equal than others I guess. Whatever happened to your oath to uphold the constitution, which includes the 2A?

jdberger
02-03-2011, 11:10 AM
Tim Dolan is a paid in full spokesman for the International Association of Chiefs of Police.

IACP had a hand in Taking a Stand: Reducing Gun Violence in Our Communities (http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1470&issue_id=42008), a laughable tome with the overtly political agenda of destroying your Second Amendment rights.

Take a look at the list of participants:

Tom Diaz, Senior Policy Analyst, Violence Policy Center
Fred Gebauer, General Counsel, New York City Mayor’s Office
David Hemenway, Professor, School of Public Health, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts
Andrew Traver, Special Agent in Charge, Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Chicago, Illinois, Field Division
Nina Vinik, Legal Director, Legal Community Against Violence

Not a single person on that list thinks that YOU should be able to own a gun. Ever.

This is what they came up with for recommendations:

The IACP should develop a best practices protocol for voluntary gun surrender programs.
Congress, as well as state, local, and tribal governments, should enact laws requiring that all gun sales and transfers proceed through a Federal Firearms License (FFL), thus ensuring that a mandatory background check will be conducted on the transferee.
State and local governments should regulate and/or limit the sale of multiple handguns as a measure to reduce gun trafficking.
State and local governments should mandate that a ballistic fingerprint is recorded for every gun sold.
Congress should repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the sharing of gun trace data.
State and local governments should mandate the reporting of lost and stolen firearms, and federal law in this area should be tightened.
Congress should enact an effective ban on military-style assault weapons.
Congress should enact an effective ban on .50-caliber sniper rifles.
Congress should enact an effective ban on armor-piercing handgun ammunition.


FWIW - the IACP received Grants from the Joyce Foundation in the following amounts:

2009 $250,000
2007 $300,000 To begin the targeted implementation of the recommendations that resulted from the Great Lakes States Summit on Gun Violence.
2007 $ 99,935 To develop and execute the release of a report on the Great Lakes States Summit on Firearm Violence.
2006 $375,000 To convene the Great Lakes States Summit on Gun Violence in April 2007.
2006 $174,788 To expand a Midwest-based advisory group of law enforcement leaders interested in promoting gun violence prevention policies and practices, and to plan a possible regional summit of Midwest law enforcement, elected officials, and other stakeholders on gun violence prevention.

I wouldn't trust this guy anymore than I'd trust Emeryville's Police Chief, Ken James. Simply put, he's paid to follow a political agenda - and he's full of [Barnyard vulgarity].

Swiss
02-03-2011, 11:37 AM
Thanks jdberger, great post :)

Wherryj
02-03-2011, 12:13 PM
For the purpose of posting rebuttals...

From the Minneapolis Star Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/115066964.html




Please do not post whole articles - see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=363956
// Librarian

"The National Rifle Association's arguments and statistics purporting that more guns are the reason for violent crime drops in the United States are not supported by any research, and we, as a country, have only dropped from ridiculously high gun homicide numbers to what should still be very embarrassing numbers in a free nation."

I suspect that he has a fix in mind for this, but it probably involves removing the word "free"...

Wherryj
02-03-2011, 12:22 PM
I dispute his statistics. Isn't it great how "officials" never have to defend their preposterous statistical claims? Just like Bloombarf saying that the crime rate in New York is half what it is in Phoenix. Yeah? Where's your proof?

He's probably correct, however. Pheonix has an AMAZINGLY high rate of immigrants who break the law by coming there ILLEGALLY.

J.D.Allen
02-03-2011, 12:27 PM
He's probably correct, however. Pheonix has an AMAZINGLY high rate of immigrants who break the law by coming there ILLEGALLY.

No he's not. He was referring to violent crime, and the FBI's latest crime stats found on the FBI website disputes his claims.

Kukuforguns
02-03-2011, 12:37 PM
The Minneapolis police department has a serious problem with the Constitution. As but one example, Joel Rosenberg (best known outside Minnesota as a Fantasy author) lives in the Minneapolis area and is having a run-in with the Minneapolis police. In addition to his fiction writing, Joel is the author of the premiere book on how to get a CCW in Minnesota and is a licensed CCW instructor.

His wife was arrested on a domestic violence charge (stemming from public discipline of a child). Joel went to the police department to request the files on his wife's arrest. He also went wearing his pistol. The public relations officer who was there to provide the arrest files, disarmed Joel (without consent). Meanwhile, Joel was video recording the whole thing. After the incident was over, Joel posted the video on the internet with some uncharitable comments regarding the police officer.

In what was a big surprise (to absolutely no one), the police later arrested Joel and tossed him him jail on a charge that Joel was bearing arms in a courthouse. He stayed there until a white knight posted $10,000 to satisfy the $100,000 bail set by a judge. Olek Volk has hosted a benefit dinner for Joel. Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit has also linked to the issue.

There is a more in depth discussion of the situation at http://www.popehat.com/2010/12/09/the-empire-strikes-back/ and http://news.ellegon.com/

If you have a couple of extra bucks, please consider donating some to Joel to cover his legal expenses. You can donate directly at any Wells Fargo branch as described in the second link.

bandook
02-03-2011, 1:53 PM
No he's not. He was referring to violent crime, and the FBI's latest crime stats found on the FBI website disputes his claims.

Actually, if you normalize the crime per capita (or per million), Phoenix is the runaway winner...
Murder and Rape is 2-3 times higher in Phoenix (per capita) than in NYC.

But, considering there are 35,000 NYPD officers blanketing 305 square miles vs about 3,800 Phoenix PD officers having to cover about 500+ square miles, I'd say that Phoenix PD is more efficient (or NYPD is indeed eating donuts most of the time)

Falconis
02-03-2011, 2:24 PM
Am I remembering wrong, but didn't Austrailia's crime rate skyrocket after they banned guns or something similar to that effect?

J.D.Allen
02-03-2011, 2:53 PM
Actually, if you normalize the crime per capita (or per million), Phoenix is the runaway winner...
Murder and Rape is 2-3 times higher in Phoenix (per capita) than in NYC.

But, considering there are 35,000 NYPD officers blanketing 305 square miles vs about 3,800 Phoenix PD officers having to cover about 500+ square miles, I'd say that Phoenix PD is more efficient (or NYPD is indeed eating donuts most of the time)

Cite please?

This table from the FBI lists violent crime rates for major metropolitan areas per 100,000 inhabitants, and it says you're wrong.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_06.html

yellowfin
02-03-2011, 2:57 PM
But, considering there are 35,000 NYPD officers blanketing 305 square miles vs about 3,800 Phoenix PD officers having to cover about 500+ square miles, I'd say that Phoenix PD is more efficient (or NYPD is indeed eating donuts most of the time)And therein lies the real motive: a disarmed populace unable to protect themselves demands the 10x larger police force. The police chief wants that and the power that comes with it. Anti gun police don't give a damn about the public safety. Quite frankly they should be stripped of every dime they've ever made and keel hauled for it.

Jack L
02-03-2011, 3:06 PM
The Chief has his handgun and so does his crew. We want ours too. That simple.

Quser.619
02-03-2011, 3:08 PM
Maybe he should demand that his officers report to calls armed only w/ warm hugs & smiles then, you know set an example ;)

bandook
02-03-2011, 4:22 PM
Cite please?

This table from the FBI lists violent crime rates for major metropolitan areas per 100,000 inhabitants, and it says you're wrong.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_06.html

I think you mean, that the above table says that the below excel spreadsheet is wrong... :-)

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/preliminary-crime-in-the-us-2009/downloads

Download table 4 into Excel.
Then, take it up with the FBI.

jamesob
02-03-2011, 4:31 PM
10 police officers killed and they wonder why we need guns. if the police are not safe and they carry guns, what does that mean for the average joe who doesn't carry?

Librarian
02-03-2011, 6:05 PM
I think you mean, that the above table says that the below excel spreadsheet is wrong... :-)

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/preliminary-crime-in-the-us-2009/downloads

Download table 4 into Excel.
Then, take it up with the FBI.

Different data sets - JD's is 'Metropolitan Statistical Area', yours is 'City'. By city, New York is slightly lower in violent crime/100,000 people than Phoenix (257.9 vs 285.8)

mhho
02-04-2011, 8:54 AM
[QUOTE=Swiss;5745166]For the purpose of posting rebuttals...

These are good sources for quotable info::

http://gunfacts.info/

http://www.guncite.com/

G60
02-04-2011, 8:56 AM
"frankly, that's preposterous"?

what century is this guy from?

bernieb90
02-04-2011, 8:55 PM
Actually, if you normalize the crime per capita (or per million), Phoenix is the runaway winner...
Murder and Rape is 2-3 times higher in Phoenix (per capita) than in NYC.

But, considering there are 35,000 NYPD officers blanketing 305 square miles vs about 3,800 Phoenix PD officers having to cover about 500+ square miles, I'd say that Phoenix PD is more efficient (or NYPD is indeed eating donuts most of the time)

There are other issues in play here as well. Last time I checked New York state did not border a 3rd world country with a full on drug war going on. Arizona is a primary portal for drug, and human smuggling which inevitably leads to more violence.

Most murders in metropolitan areas involve gangs whose members don't give a hoot about laws. Tough sentencing for gang members, and those who use firearms in crimes reduces the murder rate significantly, because a majority of these guys will be repeat offenders if they get off easy.