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jumbopanda
09-03-2006, 1:16 AM
so bushmaster and dpms tell me that they can't sell their .22 ARs to Kali, so i had another idea.

how bout i buy an "off list" AR lower such as a Stag Arms one, and then simply slap on a .22 upper? if im not mistaken, "off list" ARs can only be classified as "assault weapons" if its a centerfire with the evil features. so...in this case i could just use the .22 upper with as many evil features as i want, and still have a perfectly legal .22 rifle, correct? :D

blkA4alb
09-03-2006, 1:20 AM
Do you really need another thread about this? Here is the 2nd post that I gave you in your other thread.

The law that pertains to these legal ARs is SB23. It reads that a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle, with a detachable magazine cannot have anyone of the following (insert evil features here.)

If the rifle is not centerfire than it is not subject to SB23. Rimfires can have all the evil features you want.

However it gets more complicated, lets get back to the AR platform specifically. If you put a rimfire upper on to the AR lower and use an open magwell and pistol grip it is a relative grey area. Since the upper is fairly easy to change (push 2 pins out.) If you were to take the upper off the rifle would could possibly be illegal because it has an open magwell and a pistol grip. I say it is grey because there has not been a test case to decide whether it is the lower or the upper that determines the caliber. Common sence would tell us that the upper would, but some DA may decide differently.

The resident legal mind (bwiese) will say that you should not do a rimfire build with detachable magazine and pistol grip unless the lower is marked 22LR. On the contrary, the member grammaton76 feels confident without his lower being marked 22LR and having a rimfire upper, open magwell and pistol grip.

I personally would feel safe enough with a dedicated rimfire upper (such as the V-22) without having the lower be marked rimfire but the choice is yours.

ETA: You should also steer clear of the bolt conversion kits however, go with a dedicated rimfire upper.

jumbopanda
09-03-2006, 1:41 AM
ah, ok :o

i guess i didnt give it too much consideration that first time because i was thinking about buying a complete rifle, which i cant do, regardless of whether or not i am comfortable with it.

the idea of building it with an offlist lower just popped into my head, so i guess all thats left now is my comfort level with taking the risk. i think ill be fine...:cool:

Mssr. Eleganté
09-03-2006, 2:20 AM
so i guess all thats left now is my comfort level with taking the risk. i think ill be fine...:cool:

Lauer Custom Weaponry manufactures an AR lower that has no caliber markings. That might give you an extra layer of comfort. Lauer also specializes in doing custom engraving on their AR lowers. You can have them engrave "Caliber .22LR" on the lower to give you even more comfort. Your local Dealer will then have to log it into his bound book as being .22LR caliber. You could even ask Lauer to engrave something like "WARNING - .22 Long Rifle Only" on the other side of the receiver.

More extreme options include making the front pivot pin non-movable so that you can't remove the upper from the lower and altering the receiver extension so that it will no longer work with a centerfire upper.

If a DA has to use power tools to remove your .22LR upper from your .22LR marked lower then he is going to have a pretty weak case.

Nefarious
09-03-2006, 9:14 AM
. You can have them engrave "Caliber .22LR" on the lower to give you even more comfort. Your local Dealer will then have to log it into his bound book as being .22LR caliber. You could even ask Lauer to engrave something like "WARNING - .22 Long Rifle Only" on the other side of the receiver.


Thats a nice little added extra - even if not to engrage .22lr ... to engrave anything

jumbopanda
09-03-2006, 5:14 PM
If a DA has to use power tools to remove your .22LR upper from your .22LR marked lower then he is going to have a pretty weak case.

personally i think its a weak case anyway. say you have a m14 rifle, you could simply replace the orginal stock with one that has a pistol grip, and bam, you got an "assault weapon". not much harder than replacing an AR upper...:p

blkA4alb
09-03-2006, 5:18 PM
personally i think its a weak case anyway. say you have a m14 rifle, you could simply replace the orginal stock with one that has a pistol grip, and bam, you got an "assault weapon". not much harder than replacing an AR upper...:p
Thats a completely different situation.

jumbopanda
09-03-2006, 8:25 PM
maybe...but remember that a centerfire AR-15 with a detachable magazine can still be legal if you remove the pistol grip...

blkA4alb
09-03-2006, 8:42 PM
maybe...but remember that a centerfire AR-15 with a detachable magazine can still be legal if you remove the pistol grip...
Um yes, and with no other features. But whats your point?

jumbopanda
09-03-2006, 8:47 PM
point is, that i see no reason for one to be uncomfortable with a .22 AR with "evil" features, if they are ok with a centerfire AR without those features, because they are essentially the same thing as far as legality is concerned.

blkA4alb
09-03-2006, 9:00 PM
No I personally don't believe that it is basically the same thing. Oh well.

PIRATE14
09-03-2006, 9:10 PM
If u want a BM 22LR, it can be done as longs as it's mot marked xm15e2s.................

rix
09-03-2006, 9:35 PM
What about using a large rivet or a nut and bolt in place of the front pivot pin ? It would still pivot open for cleaning ,yet be permanently fixed to the lower .

jumbopanda
09-03-2006, 10:11 PM
If u want a BM 22LR, it can be done as longs as it's mot marked xm15e2s.................

yea, im gonna use either a stag arms or lauer custom weaponry lower

ETD1010
09-04-2006, 9:00 AM
What about using a large rivet or a nut and bolt in place of the front pivot pin ? It would still pivot open for cleaning ,yet be permanently fixed to the lower .

I like that idea. weld something to the tip of the pin so it can't be removed.

blkA4alb
09-04-2006, 9:56 AM
Its easier than that guys.

http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/Gun%20Parts.htm

jumbopanda
09-04-2006, 12:41 PM
Its easier than that guys.

http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/Gun%20Parts.htm


AHHH my ears!! My speakers were set pretty high so as soon as I clicked that...BANG!!! :eek: