PDA

View Full Version : carry laws and fishing


Chadster
02-03-2011, 11:23 AM
I read that in CA you can carry concealed unloaded if you are going or coming from fishing and have a valid fishing license. Is this true ?

mej16489
02-03-2011, 11:53 AM
I read that in CA you can carry concealed unloaded if you are going or coming from fishing and have a valid fishing license. Is this true ?

True

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

edwardm
02-03-2011, 11:57 AM
True

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

Just don't expect an officer to know that bit of law, though. Many that I have encountered are not aware of it. If you can at least remember the PC section off the top of your head, the officer probably has a condensed copy of the penal code in his or her vehicle for reference and enlightenment.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-03-2011, 12:38 PM
And all other state and fed laws still apply. i.e., not within 1000' of school, not concealed without permit, not in certain marked areas, within city limits if so zoned, etc.

paul0660
02-03-2011, 12:46 PM
And all other state and fed laws still apply. i.e., not within 1000' of school, not concealed without permit, not in certain marked areas, within city limits if so zoned, etc.

The 12027 exception applies specifically to concealment. Allows for transporting concealed NOT in a locked case.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-03-2011, 1:41 PM
The 12027 exception applies specifically to concealment. Allows for transporting concealed NOT in a locked case.

But not loaded and concealed, correct? Even while fishing/hunting?

JJE
02-03-2011, 2:23 PM
The text of subsection (g) says you can transport unloaded when going to or from your huntimng or fishing expedition. However, it doesn't stipulate unloaded while actually hunting or fishing.

So last Sunday when I went fishing I could have carried a concealed, unloaded handgun in my car, then loaded it and kept it concealed while I was fishing? Actually ... no - I was at a regional park and I'm sure I've seen a "no firearms outside the shooting range" sign (there's a public range on park property nearby).

Edit: On further thought, maybe I could have carried unloaded/concealed on the way to and from the lake, but then locked it up and left it in the car, although that isn't of any value to me.

paul0660
02-03-2011, 2:24 PM
12031 covers loaded:

(a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.


So, put the two together. WHILE hunting or fishing you can carry loaded and concealed, if not in one of the aforementioned places. You can TRANSPORT the gun concealed and not locked but not loaded to and from the expedition.

also in 12031:

(i) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from carrying
a loaded firearm in an area within an incorporated city while
engaged in hunting, provided that the hunting at that place and time
is not prohibited by the city council.


Clear as mud, eh?

So, to catch up to JJE's question, yes, unless guns were prohibited as you say. And as Igotdirt said, you still have to watch out for school zones and other municipally prohibited locations.........and, I think, state parks.

j-rod
02-03-2011, 4:00 PM
I've never concealed while hunting. I've open carried in National Forest. I have however unloaded my pistol when traveling to and from hunting camp in a vehicle. That seems to be the jist of the law.

edwardm
02-03-2011, 5:02 PM
I've never concealed while hunting. I've open carried in National Forest. I have however unloaded my pistol when traveling to and from hunting camp in a vehicle. That seems to be the jist of the law.

Pretty much. 12031(f) defines a 'prohibited area' as:

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place
where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

El Dorado National Forest, for example, forbids shooting onto or from a "Forest Development Road." Checking for that definition yields a reference to 16 USC 535. It doesn't per se define a development road, but it describes them, and that description would lead me to believe that any road used for NF access qualifies as a "Forest Development Road."

Keep in mind there is another definition of "loaded" in the Fish and Game Code (basically a round in chamber = loaded, round in magazine [i.e. in a bolt gun or a Model 94] = not loaded.) Just to add to the mix, of course. As if living in this stupid state isn't complicated enough.

In theory, I can't load my rifle or my pistol until I step off the road and into the bush. Not speaking for myself, but I can guarantee you about 99.995% of hunters are in violation of that law.

choprzrul
02-03-2011, 5:17 PM
Since all roads in California lead to the ocean, a stream, or a lake; as long as I have my fishing license, a hook, some line, and perhaps a swivel I can be carrying concealed unloaded? As far as that goes, one of these in the vehicle should suffice:

http://amlp.myebiz.com/images/pocketfisherman3.jpg

gunRfun
02-04-2011, 5:37 AM
I was wondering about this. This is some good info.

GrizzlyGuy
02-04-2011, 8:35 AM
Pretty much. 12031(f) defines a 'prohibited area' as:

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place
where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

El Dorado National Forest, for example, forbids shooting onto or from a "Forest Development Road." Checking for that definition yields a reference to 16 USC 535. It doesn't per se define a development road, but it describes them, and that description would lead me to believe that any road used for NF access qualifies as a "Forest Development Road."

Keep in mind there is another definition of "loaded" in the Fish and Game Code (basically a round in chamber = loaded, round in magazine [i.e. in a bolt gun or a Model 94] = not loaded.) Just to add to the mix, of course. As if living in this stupid state isn't complicated enough.

In theory, I can't load my rifle or my pistol until I step off the road and into the bush. Not speaking for myself, but I can guarantee you about 99.995% of hunters are in violation of that law.

There are two schools of thought on whether or not you can carry loaded while walking down a national forest road. They are detailed and debated thoroughly over in MudCamper's Firearms in Forests and Parks thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457). They are basically:

1) You can't carry loaded because NF regulations say you can't discharge from a road, so that triggers the 'prohibited area' language in 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html).

2) You can carry loaded because only a state or county law can trigger the 'prohibited area' language in 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html) (or a local/municipal law, but local laws are N/A in a national forest). This (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4947594&postcount=17), this (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3916234&postcount=59) and this (http://www.californiaopencarry.org/AG_1968_op.pdf) support that argument.

I used to believe #1 was correct but now I choose to believe that #2 is correct. I say "choose to believe" because AFAIK we have no case law, AG memos, or similar authoritative sources that unambiguously conclude one or the other with certainty.

The F&G code you mentioned is California Fish and Game Code Section 2006 (http://law.onecle.com/california/fish/2006.html). It only applies to rifles and shotguns (not handguns), and only applies when the gun is in or on a motor vehicle.

Combining all that together plus 12027 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12027.html)(g), I choose to believe that it is legal for me to have a concealed, loaded and chambered handgun while hunting (I have a hunting license) on a national forest road, even if I am in a vehicle. I further believe that I can LOC while on that road even if I'm not hunting. Others can choose to believe whatever they want, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)