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Danz la Nuit
02-02-2011, 10:17 PM
Can I get a confirmation of OC law related questions please...

True/False

1. While an officer (in CA) may "ask" for an individual who is engaged in the "open carry" of a firearm to present their ID, compliance is NOT required assuming the "open carry" of the firearm is being conducted in a legal fashion.

2. While an officer (in CA) may "see" the serial number of a firearm while conducting a 12031(e) inspection to verify that the firearm is unloaded, they may not "search" the weapon for the serial number.

3. The "covering" (in CA) of the firearm serial number (ie: electrical tape) is NOT illegal, and is not considered destruction of the firearm serial number.

4. Should a firearm be discovered (in CA) to have a "covered" serial number during a 12031(e) inspection this does NOT create probable cause or reasonable suspicion to detain an individual for any longer than is necessary to conduct the 12031(e) inspection.

5. Audio & video recording of any personal interaction with LEO's (in CA) is completely legal with NO requirement for the individual to inform LEO's that audio & video recording is being conducted.

6. There are no laws, regulations, ordinances, etc. within the, City of El Cajon, County of San Diego, or City of San Diego, that restrict the "Open Carry" of a firearm further than what is currently restricted via California state law.

wash
02-02-2011, 10:25 PM
7. UOC in urban areas does nothing positive for gun rights and should only be used as a last resort when you feel you are in danger. Use LUCC as an alternative that is not limited by GFSZ laws.

Item #7 is 100% true.

Pig Rifle
02-02-2011, 10:25 PM
1. True
2. True
3. False
4. False
5. True
6. There may be laws specific to that area, but State law still stands, and PRE-EMPTS these.

Danz la Nuit
02-02-2011, 10:27 PM
1. True
2. True
3. False
4. False
5. True
6. There may be laws specific to that area, but State law still stands, and PRE-EMPTS these.

Could you elaborate on 3 & 4?

GrizzlyGuy
02-02-2011, 10:29 PM
Can I get a confirmation of OC law related questions please...

True/False

1. While an officer (in CA) may "ask" for an individual who is engaged in the "open carry" of a firearm to present their ID, compliance is NOT required assuming the "open carry" of the firearm is being conducted in a legal fashion.

TRUE, except for in my county where the county code requires us to ID. Your county may or may not have a similar code.

2. While an officer (in CA) may "see" the serial number of a firearm while conducting a 12031(e) inspection to verify that the firearm is unloaded, they may not "search" the weapon for the serial number.

TRUE

3. The "covering" (in CA) of the firearm serial number (ie: electrical tape) is NOT illegal, and is not considered destruction of the firearm serial number.

FALSE. Covering the serial number with tape is a violation of 537e (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/537e.html). See also here (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/carry/SD-DA-OC-Memo-2009-03.pdf), an open carry memo from the San Diego District Attorney.

4. Should a firearm be discovered (in CA) to have a "covered" serial number during a 12031(e) inspection this does NOT create probable cause or reasonable suspicion to detain an individual for any longer than is necessary to conduct the 12031(e) inspection.

FALSE. You can be immediately arrested for violating 537e (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/537e.html).


5. Audio & video recording of any personal interaction with LEO's (in CA) is completely legal with NO requirement for the individual to inform LEO's that audio & video recording is being conducted.

TRUE, as long as the interaction is in public.

6. There are no laws, regulations, ordinances, etc. within the, City of El Cajon, County of San Diego, or City of San Diego, that restrict the "Open Carry" of a firearm further than what is currently restricted via California state law.

Don't know, I live in a nicer part of the state. ;)


ETA: See here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3638595&postcount=6) for more info on the legality of recording the police.

Spooled Up
02-02-2011, 10:31 PM
Item #7 is 100% true.

I looked, what do those acronym's mean? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=78606&highlight=acronym

:D

Pig Rifle
02-02-2011, 10:38 PM
Could you elaborate on 3 & 4?

Don't remember the specific PC for this, (it's late and I'm drinking) but there's a law on the books that essentially makes it illegal to cover the serial number of any property. Granted, it appears to have been written with stolen property in mind. But I'm sure if a LEO were looking for a reason to jam you up for carrying, he could use this obscure PC to do so. (If he knew to look for it.)

Pig Rifle
02-02-2011, 10:40 PM
I looked, what do those acronym's mean? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=78606&highlight=acronym

:D

UOC Unloaded Open Carry
LUCC Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry
GFSZ Gun Free School Zone

Danz la Nuit
02-02-2011, 10:52 PM
Don't remember the specific PC for this, (it's late and I'm drinking) but there's a law on the books that essentially makes it illegal to cover the serial number of any property. Granted, it appears to have been written with stolen property in mind. But I'm sure if a LEO were looking for a reason to jam you up for carrying, he could use this obscure PC to do so. (If he knew to look for it.)

I could have sworn that I had seen either a video or an OC site that said you could cover the serial with tape. Hmmm :confused:

Pig Rifle
02-02-2011, 11:10 PM
I could have sworn that I had seen either a video or an OC site that said you could cover the serial with tape. Hmmm :confused:

Yeah some guys have done it, and with some success (avoiding 4A violations). But when carrying, it's best to not to give the offending LEO anything with which to hang you. No matter how small the infraction. Anything that allows him to "legitemately" prolong a contact/detention with you is not a good thing, either.

EDIT: Here's the PC I was looking for...
537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes
of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property
from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number,
electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or
identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or
destroyed, is guilty of a public offense

GrizzlyGuy
02-03-2011, 6:02 AM
I could have sworn that I had seen either a video or an OC site that said you could cover the serial with tape. Hmmm :confused:

There might be a video like that, but see the San Diego DA memo that I linked to above. He mentions 537e in the memo, so it's probably an especially bad idea to cover the serial number down where you are.

Speaking of videos, be sure to watch this one from the experts and do the 12031(e) check exactly as they demonstrate:

VDWxCpVlrkw

:rofl: :smilielol5: