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View Full Version : Are Hi capacity mags/feeding devices OK for C&R?


Hunter
09-02-2006, 5:27 PM
OK, I need your guy's brain power to help me hash over a part of the code here. Please feel free to shoot this full of holes as you see fit.....

We all are quite familiar with this part of the code that deals with hi cap mags and other items


CALIFORNIA CODES
PENAL CODE
SECTION 12020-12040

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable
firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a
firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which
contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or
carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst
trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any
short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any
leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol,
any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge
knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice
handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon
of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy,
sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.

But then with further reading one gets to sections (b) of the same code that states:


(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:......{skipping to section 7}........

(7) Any firearm or ammunition that is a curio or relic as defined
in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and
which is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the
items pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title
18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant
thereto. Any person prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101
of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code from possessing firearms or ammunition who obtains title to
these items by bequest or intestate succession may retain title for
not more than one year, but actual possession of these items at any
time is punishable pursuant to Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of
this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code. Within the year, the person shall transfer title to the
firearms or ammunition by sale, gift, or other disposition. Any
person who violates this paragraph is in violation of subdivision
(a).


Now looking up Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations states the following:


Curios or relics.
Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.




Now I read this and think that one CAN legally buy, sell, import into CA magazines or belts/links for say the Browing BAR, the 1919a4, Browning M2HB, or any other C&R firearm in greater than 10 rnd configurations.... since they are all C&R guns.

Does anyone else see it this way?
Am I missing something that would prevent this?

Mssr. Eleganté
09-02-2006, 5:33 PM
The exemption that you've shown from Section 12020(b)(7) is only for firearms and ammunition. It is not for ammunition feeding devices.

While a BAR is a C&R firearm, a BAR magazine is not a C&R firearm. It's just a magazine.

Hunter
09-02-2006, 5:48 PM
Amendment II

Thanks for the clarifications, I knew I had to be missing something here.
I was thinking along the lines of old (WWII) link ammunition and was trying to make sense of this since section (a) states no hicaps, but then section (b) says forget all of section (a) when dealing with C&R ammunition.

Mssr. Eleganté
09-02-2006, 5:58 PM
...but then section (b) says forget all of section (a) when dealing with C&R ammunition.

The mention of C&R ammunition in the California law is pretty confusing. But ATF used to classify some ammunition as C&R. I believe C&R FFL's even had to log it in and out of their bound books. Most of the record keeping requirements for ammo sales from FFL's were eliminated by the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986. The above section of California law must have been written before then and then just updated with the new parts about high-cap mags.