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JMN68
09-01-2006, 12:55 AM
I saw the Off List was not sure if the Colt HBAR-A3 was a banned item or not. I have been paying attention to the discusion but a little confuse about this particular model. I have a chance to pick one up for a really good deal. I know that it will have to be CA legal config and the seller is willing to take care of that for me. Need some advice so I can proceed or not proceed with the deal and paper work. Thanks in advance.

Joe

bwiese
09-01-2006, 1:06 AM
Joe...

I saw the Off List was not sure if the Colt HBAR-A3 was a banned item or not. .... Need some advice so I can proceed or not proceed with the deal and paper work. Thanks in advance.


The lists of guns banned by name are at
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf - Calif Code of Regulations sec 5495 & 5499.

The only banned Colts are:
Colt AR-15 (all)
Colt Law Enforcement (6920)
Colt Match Target (all)
Colt Sporter (all)


The '(all)' term may be legally fuzzy but you shouldn't play games with it. For now, regard something marked as "Colt AR15-A3" as banned, as well as "Colt Match Target Competition HBar II". You don't wanna be the one having to explain to a court why 'all' doesn't apply to you.

If the sideplate of your receiver is marked only "Colt HBAR-A3" then it is legal.

If you'd care to post a pic here of the sideplate of the receiver, that might be helpful.

C123K_LoadMaster
09-01-2006, 8:54 AM
If this is a CAR-A3 HBAR Elite (CR6724 – Colt Accurized Rifle), I recommend buying it. A few weeks ago I finally took mine to the range and was stunned by its accuracy. I took some Winchester 55 gr white box to break in the barrel and could not believe I shot a 0.59 inch 5-shot group at 100 yards. I also brought along some custom loaded ammo I purchased back in 1993, .223 Rem: 68 gr., B.T.H.P. Match, and shot 4 rounds into 0.24 inch with the fifth shot opening the group up to 0.44 inch. This is the most accurate factory Colt I have ever shot. In addition, the CAR-A3 HBAR Elite (CR6724 – Colt Accurized Rifle) comes with a factory target trigger. Mine breaks at 4.5 pounds.

http://www.fototime.com/BB84791D2557E83/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/EAE695A856ACA46/orig.jpg

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-01-2006, 11:55 AM
If this is a CAR-A3 HBAR Elite (CR6724 – Colt Accurized Rifle), I recommend buying it. A few weeks ago I finally took mine to the range and was stunned by its accuracy. I took some Winchester 55 gr white box to break in the barrel and could not believe I shot a 0.59 inch 5-shot group at 100 yards. I also brought along some custom loaded ammo I purchased back in 1993, .223 Rem: 68 gr., B.T.H.P. Match, and shot 4 rounds into 0.24 inch with the fifth shot opening the group up to 0.44 inch. This is the most accurate factory Colt I have ever shot. In addition, the CAR-A3 HBAR Elite (CR6724 – Colt Accurized Rifle) comes with a factory target trigger. Mine breaks at 4.5 pounds.

http://www.fototime.com/BB84791D2557E83/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/EAE695A856ACA46/orig.jpg

How were you able to get the CAR-A3 riffle in california? As I understand it is only sold as a complete riffle. The bare lower is not available.

SemiAutoSam
09-01-2006, 11:59 AM
How were you able to get the CAR-A3 riffle in california? As I understand it is only sold as a complete riffle. The bare lower is not available.

They have been on gun broker and guns america a few times that ive seen just have the seller take the PG off the lower and seperate the upper and lower and ship the PG in a seperate box or not at all. and they can be brought into PRC.

as its not on the list its a legal rifle to bring into California.

hoffmang
09-01-2006, 11:59 AM
If one has an FFL out of California that is willing to remove the SB-23 features from the rifle before sending it, one can get one sent to a CA FFL. Its not unlike having an FFL remove hi-capacity magazines from a handgun bought out of state.

-Gene

rorschach
09-01-2006, 2:10 PM
Nice rifle!

As stated before, for a fee, Spreadfire or CWS will accept complete offlist rifles from any out of state seller, make them compliant, and send it to a CA FFL.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-01-2006, 2:25 PM
What is the chance of getting the lower receiver only?

C123K_LoadMaster
09-01-2006, 5:08 PM
I purchased the Colt back in 1997. I am ashamed to say that it took me 9 years before I finally took it to the range to shoot it.

BTW, a few years back Hoplite sold the uppers and lowers separately. See 2003 Shotgun News add below.

http://www.fototime.com/09C4EE5D2E7919A/orig.jpg

How were you able to get the CAR-A3 riffle in california? As I understand it is only sold as a complete riffle. The bare lower is not available.

adamsreeftank
09-02-2006, 1:18 AM
Aside from putting in a match trigger, how do you "accurize" a lower?

Mr331
09-02-2006, 7:41 AM
Aside from putting in a match trigger, how do you "accurize" a lower?

Stamp "Colt" on it :D

J/K I only wish I had a Colt.

dwtt
09-02-2006, 9:11 AM
Aside from putting in a match trigger, how do you "accurize" a lower?
You can call it Match or Precision or something like that.:)
It's just marketing hype and people fall for it all the time.
As for the original question, I thought these Colts that are not listed aren't
in production any more, but then I haven't kept up with Colt lately.

JMN68
09-02-2006, 10:39 AM
I have seen them listed for sales on Guns America and Gun Broker. The party that I am talking with about the sale is asking below 950.00 used with low rounds fired through it. Is it a good buy or should I opt for a NIB or never been fired for 1,200.00? Decision ???

SemiAutoSam
09-02-2006, 10:53 AM
Here is one on GB with a BIN of 900.00

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=55589872

Description for Item # 55589872


This is one accurate rifle. This rifle ser# BK007699 has had less than 150 rounds through it and aside from some minor surface blemishes it's in great shape. It's chambered in 5.56mm / .223 caliber and has an ATN scope with an illuminated reticle and built in bullet drop compensator out to 500 yards. It's mounting base is an ARMS-5 mount. To be quite honest the rifles capabilities far exceed the currently mounted scope. Please NOT BID if it is illegal to have this item in your state. I will accept a cashiers check or money order. Personal checks are OK but I will not ship until the check clears. Please email with any questions prior to bidding. i will only ship to an FFL in the lower 48 states. I hate having to sell it but other priorities have arisen. Best of Luck and thanks for looking.


Tried to put the pics here but for some reason they didn't come out right.

Good luck.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-06-2006, 8:55 PM
This might be a stretch, but if a Colt Law Enforcement 6920 is banned specifically by model number (6920), would the 6921 be considered off list?

Edit

How would could they tell the difference? Same lower receiver but...

6920 = 16" Barrel

6921 = 14.5" Barrel

bwiese
09-06-2006, 10:21 PM
This might be a stretch, but if a Colt Law Enforcement 6920 is banned specifically by model number (6920), would the 6921 be considered off list?

How would could they tell the difference? Same lower receiver but...

6920 = 16" Barrel
6921 = 14.5" Barrel

Well, it would depend on what's actually marked on the receiver.

It appears the newer Colts now being made are sometimes? often? always? marked "Match Elite" or "Match HBar Elite" - which are of course NOT listed and are OLLs.

(I don't think there are receivers marked 692X but I could be wrong.)


as for the original question, I thought these Colts that are not listed aren't
in production any more, but then I haven't kept up with Colt lately.

Actually I think the changes to unlisted receivers has only happened fairly recently. My eyes bugged out at the SHOT SHow when I saw the new gas piston rifle with a 'Match Elite'-marked receiver.

I think the DOJ got all the Colt receiver models/names when they did the first Kasler list that they subsequently failed to update.

C123K_LoadMaster
09-06-2006, 10:27 PM
Colt installed an enhanced trigger group in the CR6724. Mine came with a very nice single stage trigger that breaks cleanly at 4.5 pounds.

Aside from putting in a match trigger, how do you "accurize" a lower?

C123K_LoadMaster
09-06-2006, 10:30 PM
The Colt Accurized Rifle is still in production.

http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp

You can buy one here: http://www.ammoman.com/GUNS/6724.htm

bwiese
09-06-2006, 11:59 PM
The Colt Accurized Rifle is still in production.

http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp

You can buy one here: http://www.ammoman.com/GUNS/6724.htm

Unfortunately the CR6724 likely does not have that designator on the lower.
CR6724s have been in production for a long time, and many may have 'Sporter Target' ? or 'Match Target' or Match Target Competition markings on the lower.
Perhaps later ones have different names on the lower that are truly off-list.

jdberger
09-07-2006, 12:18 AM
http://www.fototime.com/BB84791D2557E83/orig.jpg


Since I'm no gunsmith, I have to ask, what is that rivet thingy above the word "Fire" by the selector switch?

(I think I know the answer, I just don't want to embarass myself)

grammaton76
09-07-2006, 1:37 AM
Since I'm no gunsmith, I have to ask, what is that rivet thingy above the word "Fire" by the selector switch?

(I think I know the answer, I just don't want to embarass myself)

It's a pin they put in there, to hold a block of metal in there, which makes it harder to install an FA trigger group. The pin is much larger than the FA group uses, which means even if you milled out the block and drilled out that hole, you'd be stuck with too large of a hole for the FA parts. It's part of what Colt did to try and be politically correct.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-07-2006, 7:48 AM
Well, it would depend on what's actually marked on the receiver.

It appears the newer Colts now being made are sometimes? often? always? marked "Match Elite" or "Match HBar Elite" - which are of course NOT listed and are OLLs.

(I don't think there are receivers marked 692X but I could be wrong.)



Actually I think the changes to unlisted receivers has only happened fairly recently. My eyes bugged out at the SHOT SHow when I saw the new gas piston rifle with a 'Match Elite'-marked receiver.

I think the DOJ got all the Colt receiver models/names when they did the first Kasler list that they subsequently failed to update.

This is one example of markings on the Colt Law Enforcement Lower Receiver.

http://www.speakeasy.org/~camaross/Misc/M4LE.jpg

Would this be considered off list?

PIRATE14
09-07-2006, 7:59 AM
This is one example of markings on the Colt Law Enforcement Lower Receiver.

http://www.speakeasy.org/~camaross/Misc/M4LE.jpg

Would this be considered off list?

Well your pretty close to a 6920 lower markings but they are different....of course 58 DAs could have a different opinion......:D

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-07-2006, 8:04 AM
Here is another example.

http://www.speakeasy.org/~camaross/Misc/LECarbine.jpg

There is no 6920 marking on the receiver. It seems the model number is dependant on the upper assembly or barrel lenght but is not specific to the lower receiver.

Would this not be similar to Rock River? All lowers being equal but the upper assembly making the model number?

PIRATE14
09-07-2006, 10:25 AM
Here is another example.

http://www.speakeasy.org/~camaross/Misc/LECarbine.jpg

There is no 6920 marking on the receiver. It seems the model number is dependant on the upper assembly or barrel lenght but is not specific to the lower receiver.

Would this not be similar to Rock River? All lowers being equal but the upper assembly making the model number?

My .02 is that this is a 6920 lower and only COLT uses this upper specifically with this specific lower...anyone in the know could so state. 6721 and 6520 lowers are all marked specific lower w/ specific upper.

Now, probably should go with your previous lower M4LE vice 6920 or try the 6400C, I don't remember what those markings look like.

C123K_LoadMaster
09-07-2006, 10:48 AM
Bill,

That’s my CR6724 in the photo and it is marked CAR-A3 HBAR Elite. I ordered it new from Lew Horton back in 1997. I have never seen a factory CR6724 with lowers marked 'Sporter Target' or 'Match Target' or Match Target Competition.

Hopelite was selling just the CR6724 uppers for a while so it is possible a CR6724 upper could be floating around the used market with one of the lowers you mentioned.

http://www.fototime.com/BB84791D2557E83/orig.jpg

Unfortunately the CR6724 likely does not have that designator on the lower.
CR6724s have been in production for a long time, and many may have 'Sporter Target' ? or 'Match Target' or Match Target Competition markings on the lower.
Perhaps later ones have different names on the lower that are truly off-list.

buochie
08-22-2009, 2:30 PM
nice!

Plisk
08-22-2009, 3:16 PM
nice!

http://www.lofimassahkah.net/storage/necro.jpg