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View Full Version : Class action against CCW costs possible?


AXI
01-31-2011, 11:02 PM
Though the average gun buyer is thought to be wealthy (as guns are expensive), not everyone can afford a CCW, and ironically it is those in the areas that most require them that can not afford them.

On those grounds alone, is it possible (as I heard in another forum) to have a lawsuit which would show that this charge on CCW is actually very dangerous to those who need their 2nd Amendment right for what its good for?

$500 for a CCW (per californiaconcealedcarry.com) is insane, especially with the renewal fees. It basically selects those who deserve defense, and those who do not (very selective).

This isn't an anti-california rant thread, but instead I want to know if this is possible and if the major groups in California have the power to push this issue.

pdugan6
01-31-2011, 11:09 PM
I live in Santa Clara county and i would love to get a ccw but i heard that it is nearly impossible in this county. Any takes on this? if it is just a matter of 500 bucks and qualifying your weapons than No Prob.

AXI
01-31-2011, 11:16 PM
The $500 is unacceptable, this is a human right. Most of that is to pay for a needless DOJ.

Munk
01-31-2011, 11:22 PM
As a person who is virtually destitute, CCW costs are prohibitive to my acquiring one. It's also the reason I can't shoot as often as I'd like. Once i'm finally employed again, or done with my degree, I plan to change this.

My background check is spotless. Not even a parking ticket. I would likely prove proficient with my firearm (I'd like to practice more... but $$$).


I feel that this barrier is even worse for alot of poeple in some rather rough areas. The idea that no excessive fee can be levied against the practicing of a right, as opposed to a priveledge makes this a possibility.

On the other hand, money is a finite resource for the lawyers as well. They're fighting where it is strategically best to place the money for now. I'm sure this barrier will eventually be on the chopping block but other issues are a little more prominent, such as getting CCW for normal people who can afford it. CCW requirements are already so screwy that even those with sufficient cash are unable to get one. This is just one example, and i'm sure there's other directions the money must be thrown first.

NotEnufGarage
01-31-2011, 11:22 PM
..State......Total.....-...Class...-..Fingerprint...-.Photos.-..Permit...-.Renewal.
Oklahoma.....$195............$60..........$25..... .......$10.....$100/5yr.....?
Minnesota....Varies..........Varies............... ...............$100/5yr....$75
Texas........Varies..........Varies.......?....... ..........?....$140
Michigan.....$175............$75.................. ...............$100........$105
Virgina......$90.............$40(online).......... ...............$50
Nebraska.....$225...........$125.................. ...............$100
Maine........?.................................... ...............$35..........$20
New.York.....$300.(inclusive,.varies.by.county)
Georgia......$60.................................. ...............$60/5yr......$60
Pennsylvania.$48.................................. ...............$48/5yr
N.Carolina...$95.................................. ...............$95/5yr
Alaska.......$0..(Constitutional.Carry)
Arizona......$0..(Constitutional.Carry)
Washington...$65.................................. ...............$65/5yr
Alabama......$10.................................. ...............$10/yr........$10/yr
Mississippi..$132................................. ...............$132/5yr......$82
Colorado.....Varies........$40.-.$200............................$152.50/3yr...$35
South.Dakota.$10.................................. ...............$10/4yr
W.Virginia...$100................................. ...............$100
New.Hampshire.$10................................. ...............$10/3yr
Ohio...........Varies.......$50-$100.............................$55/5yr

Librarian
01-31-2011, 11:23 PM
Please read in the Calguns CCW Information Forum - you'll find the link at the top of this one (2nd Amendment etc).

NotEnufGarage
01-31-2011, 11:40 PM
Sacramento County ;

Application Fee $20
Permit Fee $80
Livescan $122
Training $90 - $200
Ammo $30/gun (100 rds 9MM, .40, .45)

So, anywhere from $342 to $452 depending on what training you take.

Add to this ;

2 trips to the county office (1 for application turn in, 1 for final permit turn-in)
1 trip to Sheriff's office for Livescan
2 days in class
5 month wait for appointment

For a 2 year permit... California's fees are way out of line with the rest of the country.

Ape
01-31-2011, 11:42 PM
..State......Total.....-...Class...-..Fingerprint...-.Photos.-..Permit...-.Renewal.
Oklahoma.....$195............$60..........$25..... .......$10.....$100/5yr.....?
Minnesota....Varies..........Varies............... ...............$100/5yr....$75
Texas........Varies..........Varies.......?....... ..........?....$140
Michigan.....$175............$75.................. ...............$100........$105
Virgina......$90.............$40(online).......... ...............$50
Nebraska.....$225...........$125.................. ...............$100
Maine........?.................................... ...............$35..........$20
New.York.....$300.(inclusive,.varies.by.county)
Georgia......$60.................................. ...............$60/5yr......$60
Pennsylvania.$48.................................. ...............$48/5yr
N.Carolina...$95.................................. ...............$95/5yr
Alaska.......$0..(Constitutional.Carry)
Arizona......$0..(Constitutional.Carry)
Washington...$65.................................. ...............$65/5yr
Alabama......$10.................................. ...............$10/yr........$10/yr
Mississippi..$132................................. ...............$132/5yr......$82
Colorado.....Varies........$40.-.$200............................$152.50/3yr...$35
South.Dakota.$10.................................. ...............$10/4yr
W.Virginia...$100................................. ...............$100
New.Hampshire.$10................................. ...............$10/3yr
Ohio...........Varies.......$50-$100.............................$55/5yr

That's actually incorrect...... In Colorado it's every 5 years for renewal.

And this also harkens to my debate over losing the right to OC in Cali.
Here in Colorado OC is legal and doesn't require any monitary compensation to the State. If we lost that ability then I would expect the costs for CCW licensing to sky rocket along with the restrictions.

AXI
01-31-2011, 11:42 PM
Please read in the Calguns CCW Information Forum - you'll find the link at the top of this one (2nd Amendment etc).

Looked into it, did not answer anything.

In fact, when I looked into my country it said less than the site I already listed.

Anyway, question persists. Is there a way that this sort of impossibly expensive license for many MANY citizens of Cali (again in particular, those in most need) can be targeted for a class action (by any of the major groups who can afford lawyers)?

This is literally hanging the poor up to dry in some areas.

NotEnufGarage
01-31-2011, 11:46 PM
Doesn't the Sheriff get part of the Livescan fee?

If so, since they're already collecting $100 for the permit, wouldn't they be exceeding the statutory limit they're allowed to collect?

AXI
01-31-2011, 11:49 PM
Doesn't the Sheriff get part of the Livescan fee?

If so, since they're already collecting $100 for the permit, wouldn't they be exceeding the statutory limit they're allowed to collect?

The rest comes in for the every-two-year class, which in this state is $257. Also there is a DOJ, DOE (or whatever) fee. The thing is, there are other things outside the license which are driving the price, but they are all unnecessary. A 2 hour class for $257 (every 2 years) is insane, no matter what. It is the Sherif I think that give this class, so AGAIN, why are we paying so much to a social entity that we pay for in the first place? Even the poor pay for their [Sherif/Police] services with the 9+% tax on some items, and more on others.

yellowfin
02-01-2011, 6:57 AM
The power to tax is the power to destroy. The intent of the law and fees is crystal clear here.

Crom
02-01-2011, 8:13 AM
The cost for a CA CCW license will be addressed, I presume almost immediately after a right-to-carry case is won in a federal court where the ruling is binding on California. My sincere hope is that it would be a 9th circuit ruling or better yet a SCOTUS case. Remember that carry is still a privilege and not a right in CA.

uyoga
02-01-2011, 8:44 AM
Although a big part of getting a CCW in this state, the cost of acquisition is not as big a problem as the "good cause" and good moral characer" unreasonable interpretation in most of this state's counties.

CGF and others are currently deeply involved in litigation to correct these.

Shortly after these rights are reacquired, the emphasis will turn toward reducing costs, among other issues.

Right now, as things stand, in most counties, unless your "good cause" meets with the approval of the issuing agency, you will not be issued a CCW, whether or not you can afford the exhorbitant fees.

wildhawker
02-01-2011, 8:46 AM
Crom is correct that we need to secure "bear" at the USSC before moving against fees. We are very aware of the need for their reduction and have already begun working to force issuing agencies to comply with the fee caps in PC 12050.

Paladin
02-01-2011, 8:56 AM
Right now, as things stand, in most urban counties, unless your "good cause" meets with the approval of the issuing agency, you will not be issued a CCW, whether or not you can afford the exhorbitant fees.Fixed it for you.

39 of the 58 counties are either "virtual" Shall Issue (SD as GC), or "avid shooter" Issue. It is just the major urban counties and often their neighbors (think "commuter counties"), that force the law-abiding to be helpless prey before the evildoers. :mad:

wildhawker
02-01-2011, 9:02 AM
Also, I think AXl needs to view our carry flowchart and guide to understand what is and isn't permissible.

wash
02-01-2011, 9:32 AM
The first step is the CCW initiative because a big part of that is Grey Peterson forcing the counties to bring their fees and license requirements in line with the law.

Once that is done, the cost is less than $500 and probably less than $300 but I haven't added it up yet because I'm still in a virtual no issue county.

The CCW initiative also works to make all 58 counties go virtual shall issue and they are making progress. So far they have had more success than the San Diego case and they haven't even received a decision in their first lawsuit.

There is a plan and it does include working to reduce CCW fees now and in the future. Give it some time and you'll get what you are asking for (a reasonable fee, probably measured by the same standards that led to the DROS fee reduction a while back).

AXI
02-01-2011, 9:58 AM
Also, I think AXl needs to view our carry flowchart and guide to understand what is and isn't permissible.

Fortunately, I did look at it. The coloring system however I did not locate.