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mgcchkn
08-31-2006, 10:35 AM
Where can we find a list of how each member of the state senate or assembly voted on particular issues? It seems kind of redundant to keep sending emails and letters to the ones that support 2nd Amendment rights. Would be nice to spam the anti-gunners with pro-gun emails and letters.

I did a one-click on all the current issues and everyone that those emails went to were pro-gun officials and I got replies back from all of them saying that they always support 2nd Amendment rights. So it seems a waste of time and effort to keep sending them mail when they are going to vote our way anyway.

Or am I missing something here?

RJ Dunn
08-31-2006, 10:36 AM
+1...........

MikeK
08-31-2006, 10:44 AM
I did a one-click on all the current issues and everyone that those emails went to were pro-gun officials and I got replies back from all of them saying that they always support 2nd Amendment rights.
I'm still not sure how 352 is an anti-2nd amendment issue anyway.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, just don't know how microstamping is affecting people's rights to own a gun.

MaxQ
08-31-2006, 10:46 AM
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/bilinfo.html

Type the bill number in the search box, i.e., AB352, and click search. Toward the bottom of the next page is a heading Votes, with links to various votes for that bill.

Or,

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/

has a link to daily updates of Assembly and Senate bills by number.

rkt88edmo
08-31-2006, 10:46 AM
http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/acsframeset2text.htm

And type AB352 in the field

It will display each time the vote has come up, click on the link for a specific vote and the details are presented.

Google search string used: ca state assembly voting

rkt88edmo
08-31-2006, 10:49 AM
I think it goes to all the applicable assembly/senate people, it is just that, generally, the only ones who write you back are the pro-2A folks.



Where can we find a list of how each member of the state senate or assembly voted on particular issues? It seems kind of redundant to keep sending emails and letters to the ones that support 2nd Amendment rights. Would be nice to spam the anti-gunners with pro-gun emails and letters.

I did a one-click on all the current issues and everyone that those emails went to were pro-gun officials and I got replies back from all of them saying that they always support 2nd Amendment rights. So it seems a waste of time and effort to keep sending them mail when they are going to vote our way anyway.

Or am I missing something here?

mgcchkn
08-31-2006, 10:52 AM
I think it goes to all the applicable assembly/senate people, it is just that, generally, the only ones who write you back are the pro-2A folks.
You get automated replies from them and then I got personal messages from them as well. So maybe not all of them have auto replies. :confused:

bg
08-31-2006, 11:00 AM
Here is a list of those who voted for it and those against it
as of last night 11:50 p.

AB 352 Assembly Bill - Vote Information (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_352_vote_20060830_1150PM_asm_floor.html)

mgcchkn
08-31-2006, 11:25 AM
I'm still not sure how 352 is an anti-2nd amendment issue anyway.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, just don't know how microstamping is affecting people's rights to own a gun.
It doesn't affect our rights to own a gun, but it will limit the CA legal firearms as not all manufacturers will likely comply with this just to sell guns in CA and it will also raise prices of the guns that do comply. It will require the manufacturers to retool and that cost will be passed on to us.

MikeK
08-31-2006, 11:35 AM
It doesn't affect our rights to own a gun, but it will limit the CA legal firearms as not all manufacturers will likely comply with this just to sell guns in CA and it will also raise prices of the guns that do comply. It will require the manufacturers to retool and that cost will be passed on to us.
I get that. But my point is, when people say they are pro2a, it doesn't necessarily mean they won't support this bill.

m1371
08-31-2006, 11:41 AM
Where can we find a list of how each member of the state senate or assembly voted on particular issues? It seems kind of redundant to keep sending emails and letters to the ones that support 2nd Amendment rights. Would be nice to spam the anti-gunners with pro-gun emails and letters.

I did a one-click on all the current issues and everyone that those emails went to were pro-gun officials and I got replies back from all of them saying that they always support 2nd Amendment rights. So it seems a waste of time and effort to keep sending them mail when they are going to vote our way anyway.

Or am I missing something here?

Maybe try writing two different versions of your letters and emails?

One for the politicians who are supporting 2nd Amendment issues, thanking them for their support and asking them to continue on their current path.

Another for the politicians who are opposing and attempting to take away our 2nd Amendment rights. I won't propose to tell you what you should say (or how you should say it) to these folks. :p

mgcchkn
08-31-2006, 11:44 AM
I get that. But my point is, when people say they are pro2a, it doesn't necessarily mean they won't support this bill.
I see your point, but the point of my original post was a generality, not specific to any current bill.

mgcchkn
08-31-2006, 11:46 AM
Maybe try writing two different versions of your letters and emails?

One for the politicians who are supporting 2nd Amendment issues, thanking them for their support and asking them to continue on their current path.

Another for the politicians who are opposing and attempting to take away our 2nd Amendment rights. I won't propose to tell you what you should say (or how you should say it) to these folks. :p
I totally agree with you, I was going to mention something to the effect of thanking the supporters in my original post, but felt it was dragging as it was. :)

Just looking for a place to find out how each member voted.

Thanks to the people that posted links to the info.

adamsreeftank
08-31-2006, 12:11 PM
I'm still not sure how 352 is an anti-2nd amendment issue anyway.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, just don't know how microstamping is affecting people's rights to own a gun.

Really,

Some manufacturers may change their gun designs to comply, but many may not. So the state will not allow me to purchase an entire group of previously legal guns. If my firing pin gets worn down or covered in carbon, am I commiting a crime keeping the gun. What if it breaks, can I replace the firing pin without becoming a crimminal.

Have you read the second ammendment? Let me refresh your memory:

"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

MikeK
08-31-2006, 12:27 PM
Really,

Some manufacturers may change their gun designs to comply, but many may not. So the state will not allow me to purchase an entire group of previously legal guns. If my firing pin gets worn down or covered in carbon, am I commiting a crime keeping the gun. What if it breaks, can I replace the firing pin without becoming a crimminal.

Have you read the second ammendment? Let me refresh your memory:

"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
The government wouldn't be infringing.

Private companies would be making a choice as to where to do business.

mikehaas
08-31-2006, 1:00 PM
Where can we find a list of how each member of the state senate or assembly voted on particular issues?
Please do not focus on voting records right now, unless it is in response to an NRA request to contact specific lawmakers. We cannot be distracted by thanking or scolding lawmakers that won't make a difference in the next 10 hours or so.

For the LATEST info, please visit...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=39133
...as that thread lists the lawmakers we need to target and will be updated throughout the day. This fight may go on until the wee hours of the morning.

- Mike

6172crew
08-31-2006, 1:01 PM
The government wouldn't be infringing.

Private companies would be making a choice as to where to do business.

Your making me sick, go troll over at another board. :cool:

You have less than a handfull of post and everyone of them your telling us how gun laws are ok as long as you can have a hunting shotguns or some other BS.

Did you even call? What was your stance? Have you ever not been in favor for a gunlaw?

Wheres the ignore button already. :rolleyes:

Its like playin cards with my brothers kids or somethin.

mgcchkn
08-31-2006, 1:09 PM
Please do not focus on voting records right now, unless it is in response to an NRA request to contact specific lawmakers. We cannot be distracted by thanking or scolding lawmakers that won't make a difference in the next 10 hours or so.

For the LATEST info, please visit...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=39133
...as that thread lists the lawmakers we need to target and will be updated throughout the day. This fight may go on until the wee hours of the morning.

- Mike
I guess I don't quite understand the process.

Why/How are those 5 members the most important targets when there were 40 ayes for AB 352? And of those 40, only one of the 5 voted for the bill?

Even though this is going wildly off topic, I'd like to understand. :)

mikehaas
08-31-2006, 1:24 PM
I guess I don't quite understand the process.

Why/How are those 5 members the most important targets when there were 40 ayes for AB 352? And of those 40, only one of the 5 voted for the bill?

Even though this is going wildly off topic, I'd like to understand. :)
1. HCI is targeting those lawmakers specifically (the ones NRA is asking you to contact) to switch their votes.

2. The rest are less likely to switch their votes, so your thank you's and scoldings, while they may feel good, are not the most effective use of your time right now. Tomorrow, have at it.

In about 10 hours, the 2005-2006 legislative session will expire and if these bills haven't gone to the governor, they die. We must keep AB 352 from getting 2 more votes in the Assembly. We are also working on AB 2714 in the Senate.

For the LATEST info, please visit...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=39133
...as that thread lists the lawmakers we need to target and will be updated throughout the day. This fight may go on until the wee hours of the morning.

Mike

MikeK
08-31-2006, 1:46 PM
Your making me sick, go troll over at another board. :cool:

You have less than a handfull of post and everyone of them your telling us how gun laws are ok as long as you can have a hunting shotguns or some other BS.

Did you even call? What was your stance? Have you ever not been in favor for a gunlaw?

Wheres the ignore button already. :rolleyes:

Its like playin cards with my brothers kids or somethin.
No, I didn't call. I really could care less about the bill.

And are you saying that if someone is in favor or isn't against certain gun laws, then they don't belong here?

Nice.

And I'm the troll. :rolleyes:

6172crew
08-31-2006, 2:02 PM
Your on a pro-gun board and everyone one of your posts are why one shouldnt have a gun or why any gun law isnt such a bad thing.

Democratic underground is filled with like minded folks just like you, why are you here trying to tell this board how this law isnt so bad yet Im willing to bet you havent read the bill.

Thats called trolling when you do that. Most folks coming to this board are looking for aanswers, you seem to already have them and keep trying to push them on Calguns.

If you want I will find all your posts and point out how everyone of them supports what Ive just said about you.

Relax and read more.:rolleyes:

mgcchkn
08-31-2006, 2:06 PM
Can't we all just get along? The point of my original question was answered, this thread needs no more commentary. Lock it down, delete it, whatever, I got the answer I was looking for. :)

MikeK
08-31-2006, 2:36 PM
Your on a pro-gun board and everyone one of your posts are why one shouldnt have a gun or why any gun law isnt such a bad thing.

Democratic underground is filled with like minded folks just like you, why are you here trying to tell this board how this law isnt so bad yet Im willing to bet you havent read the bill.

Thats called trolling when you do that. Most folks coming to this board are looking for aanswers, you seem to already have them and keep trying to push them on Calguns.

If you want I will find all your posts and point out how everyone of them supports what Ive just said about you.

Relax and read more.:rolleyes:
*yawn*

Yes. I read the bill. That's why I don't care about it. And I do care about some gun control, I'm just not rabid about every piece of legislation that has the word gun in it.

And as soon as I can, I'll post some pics of my guns. I love guns. And I don't do DU.

So really. Be :cool: Not everyone has to think like you to enjoy their gun rights.

Blacktail 8541
08-31-2006, 2:51 PM
No, every one does not have to think alike on gun rights issues. But every gun owner should be very dilligent when a bill is introduced that could endanger our rights in a very circumvent way. If you let the opposition have even one small victory without a fight, you will not have those rights for very long. Look at Australia for example.

MikeK
08-31-2006, 3:02 PM
No, every one does not have to think alike on gun rights issues. But every gun owner should be very dilligent when a bill is introduced that could endanger our rights in a very circumvent way. If you let the opposition have even one small victory without a fight, you will not have those rights for very long. Look at Australia for example.
Fair enough. I just don't see this as endangering rights. That's all. I'm pretty active on the bills I see as being a threat.

chiefcrash
08-31-2006, 3:11 PM
Fair enough. I just don't see this as endangering rights. That's all. I'm pretty active on the bills I see as being a threat.

even if you don't see it as endangering rights, see it as causing gun prices to increase and fight it on those grounds...

or fight it because it will make a sanctioned monopoly out of the (only) company that has the "approved" microstamp technology...

or fight it because it's a stupid law that won't do anything...

i'm sure there's a reason you can use to fight it. if not, just fight it for the hell of it

adamsreeftank
08-31-2006, 3:16 PM
The government wouldn't be infringing.

Private companies would be making a choice as to where to do business.

Right,

And when they banned the 50 BMG, it wasn't an infringement because the gun makers can just make guns in other calibers.

And when they ban semi-auto center-fire rifles, the gun makers can just make bolt actions.

And when they ban all center-fire rifles, the gun makers can just make rimfire and shotguns.

And when they ban shotguns and rim-fires, the gun makers can just make cork guns and spud guns.

And when those are banned, we can just use cap guns like we did when we were 5 years old.

If you don't mind your government treating you like you are 5 years old and deciding what is best for you and which rights you can exercise and which you can't, then good luck keeping those guns you claim to have and like so much.

6172crew
08-31-2006, 3:24 PM
*yawn*

Yes. I read the bill. That's why I don't care about it. And I do care about some gun control, I'm just not rabid about every piece of legislation that has the word gun in it.

And as soon as I can, I'll post some pics of my guns. I love guns. And I don't do DU.

So really. Be :cool: Not everyone has to think like you to enjoy their gun rights.

Set me straight then, what gun control do you take a stand against?

And Id say almost no member here thinks like I do or should. I just keep seeing the same name behind every open ended arguement made by anti-gunners.

If your here to play the devils advocate then ok, but if you start off as playing that role and only that role you might look like a teenage troll from DU having soem fun at our expense and that is how it is looking to me.

How you think its a good idea to raise the prices of handguns and a possibility of a gun ban but those who dont play by Kortez's rules is beyond me. Please tell me how you think its a good idea to go ahead and vote for AB352, if you dont have any then hows about staying out of the way while we make some calls and try to keep your rights in check hmm.

Blacktail 8541
08-31-2006, 3:42 PM
Fair enough. I just don't see this as endangering rights. That's all. I'm pretty active on the bills I see as being a threat.


Look at it like this; for this point of discussion; They make a mandatory saftey drop test requireing gun makers to pay for this testing ,and submit 3 firearmes for testing of each make and modle, Even if they were different only in barrel length.

Manufactures will not submit low selling specialty guns because of cost factors. That limits the the type of guns and adds substantially to the cost if submitted. That limits our choice opptions by just adding this type of legislation.

Ab 352 Takes this one step further by makeing firearms manufactures jump thru one more hoop. They must incorperate the technology into manufactureing for a small percentage of their market. Thus increasing prices. They then must resubmit for the drop test. More cost! So instead of submitting all modles, they submit only a select few if any.

The legislature has now forced many more guns off the market by simply adding more restictions to allow their sale while claiming that they did not ban any guns!

6172crew
08-31-2006, 3:47 PM
Here is a few other pointers on AB352:

THE CONSEQUENCES OF (AB352) KORETZ HANDGUN MICRO-STAMPING WILL BE THE FOLLOWING:

HANDGUN MICRO-STAMPING CREATES EVIDENCE:
The provisions of AB352 that require that unique micro-stamped characters be transferred into the surface cartridge case every time a semi-auto handgun is fired, turns EVERY spent cartridge case into potential evidence in civil and criminal cases.

HANDGUN MICRO-STAMPING CREATES FALSE EVIDENCE TRAILS:
Micro-stamped cartridge cases fired and abandoned at government agencies facilities or private Shooting ranges could be gathered and used to “seed” crime scenes with the with “evidence”, implicating law enforcement officers and citizens to crimes they had nothing to do with.

HANDGUN MICRO-STAMPING WILL HURT THE ENVIROMENT:
Currently government agencies recycle spent cartridge cases so private vendors can reload them. With the metal cases being micro-stamped with identifying information of the initial users, the micro-stamped cases would be rendered useless for recycling and would have to be destroyed to eliminate the possibility of implicating secondary users of the metallic cases. Millions of pounds of metals will be turned into scrap and require expense disposal requirements imposed so it will not enter landfills.

HANDGUN MICRO-STAMPING WILL INCREASE THE COST OF TRAINING TO GOVERNMENT AGENCIES:
The loss of the ability to sell and recycle used micro-stamped cartridge cases will drive up the costs of government agencies' firearms training programs. The Government agencies will also have additional costs imposed on them for the new costs of disposing the metallic cartridge cases that may be deemed as hazardous waste.

HANDGUN MICRO STAMPING WILL INCREASE THE POTENTIAL CIVIL LIABILTY FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND GOVERNMENT ANGENCIES:
The provisions of AB352 would specify that any new handguns not micro-stamped would fall into a category of handguns declared by the State of California as being “unsafe”. If California government agencies decided to purchase non-micro stamped “unsafe” handguns and issued them to their officers, they would be equipping their staff with unsafe products to use. If the Law enforcement staff was involved in any shooting related incidents or accidents, imagine the possible civil litigation costs associated with the public use of the unsafe handguns.

OTHERS ISSUES:
The provisions of AB352 only require the micro-stamping of semi-auto handguns. AB352 does not require Rifles, Shotguns or revolvers. Why not??? The micro-stamped images required by AB352 can easily be defeated by simply: 1) Replacing the parts of the handgun that have been stamped. 2) Removing the stamped characters by polishing or rubbing the metal with abrasives. (The characters are only microns deep) 3) Modification of the stamped parts. 4) The stamped markings can be filled-in with powder reside and grit produced with the normal firing of the handgun

06/20/2006 - AB 352 has been removed from the inactive file and is again in play. After a long period of inactivity, Koretz is again trying to move the issue of Microstamping. NRA requests members contact the Senate and voice your strong opposition to AB 352.

rkt88edmo
08-31-2006, 4:29 PM
The government wouldn't be infringing.

Private companies would be making a choice as to where to do business.

And when the government makes CA a completely obnoxious environment for selling firearms, then Californians won't be able to buy any - which is equivalent to banning them outright.

Yes, YOU have guns now, but laws like these restrict gun ownership in the future, and you are concerned about other citizens in the future, right?

ETA:
Artificial government price barriers are also part of the "racist roots of gun control" aka Guns for me and not for thee.