PDA

View Full Version : Question about ex-felons owning firearms


CMEPTb
08-29-2006, 10:34 PM
I know that ex-felons can't own firearms, and their spouse may not have a firearms in the house with a felon. (Someone told me you can't have a firearm in the car with a felon - and that shooting ranges can't rent guns to felons). My question is, if the felony is non-violent, and after the probation period is up, can the ex-felon do anything to regain the right to own firearms in CA, or at least, can the ex-felon's spouse have firearms in the house?

Stanze
08-29-2006, 10:44 PM
Presidential pardon grants your rights back.

G.Gordon Liddy(a convicted felon)'s wife owns firearms. Be advised, "Straw-Man" purchases are illegal.

You can alway's hire a lawyer to help you apply for "Firearms disability relief" through the A.T.F., but I've read of many of these applications being returned unprocessed.

You can alway's apply for a DOJ "Certificate of Eligibility" if you get it you're good to go state wise.

Best, to keep a clean record.

EBWhite
08-29-2006, 10:48 PM
I have never heard anything about a felon's spouse cannot keep guns in a house....That sounds stupid.

Shane916
08-29-2006, 10:54 PM
I know that ex-felons can't own firearms, and their spouse may not have a firearms in the house with a felon. (Someone told me you can't have a firearm in the car with a felon - and that shooting ranges can't rent guns to felons). My question is, if the felony is non-violent, and after the probation period is up, can the ex-felon do anything to regain the right to own firearms in CA, or at least, can the ex-felon's spouse have firearms in the house?

So what'd ya do? ;)


Best bet is to contact the DOJ

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/contact.htm

(916) 263-4887

and

ATF

http://www.atf.treas.gov/field/index.htm

and see each of there stance.

ETD1010
08-29-2006, 11:28 PM
I've heard that non-violent felonies are like 10 years before you can try and get your gun rights back... or something like that... best to look it up.

NeoWeird
08-30-2006, 1:09 AM
I believe I heard that it is against the law to have firearms openly available to a felon; so if you live with one then they must be locked away in a safe. Same kind of concept as minors. I heard that from a peer at school whose friend (I know, I know) had a son convicted of a felony and had to get a safe and have it anchored in his bedroom when his son came home from prison.

Maddog5150
08-30-2006, 1:59 AM
I have never heard anything about a felon's spouse cannot keep guns in a house....That sounds stupid.

Ive heard the same thing. I have had customers who transfered firearms to their friends because their father in law, brother, or some other felon family member was moving into their home.

Ive also heard that it doesn't matter what kind of felony was committed, you cant own a firearm weather its non-violent or not. Its even on the HSC exam!

EOD Guy
08-30-2006, 4:59 AM
Presidential pardon grants your rights back.



You can alway's hire a lawyer to help you apply for "Firearms disability relief" through the A.T.F., but I've read of many of these applications being returned unprocessed.



BATF cannot process any of those applications because Congress has refused to fund them and has forbidden BATF from using any other funds for that purpose.

rawb
08-30-2006, 5:26 AM
How can someone be an ex-felon?
I thought once you commited a felony you became a felon and that was that...You can drop the felony or get it switched to a misdemeanor after a certain amount of time? I imagine that maybe with a lesser crime and good standing....

grammaton76
08-30-2006, 11:57 AM
BATF cannot process any of those applications because Congress has refused to fund them and has forbidden BATF from using any other funds for that purpose.

Too bad you can't privately fund the processing of the applications... if they'd put a ballpark figure on it, I imagine that some folks would scrape together the money for it.

ketec_owner
08-30-2006, 12:28 PM
Once a felon always a felon. No right to vote and no right to own firearms. As the saying goes "Can't do the time? Don't do the crime. "

Spouse cannot have firearms in the house with a felon - was because felons could get access to the firearms. Plenty were. Just like the G-man was doing.

Keep a clean record!

Unfazed
08-30-2006, 3:17 PM
смерть, откуда Вы? Вы русский, есть всегда способы купить оружие! j/k :)

Skawrpion
08-30-2006, 3:57 PM
Once a felon always a felon. No right to vote and no right to own firearms. As the saying goes "Can't do the time? Don't do the crime. "

Spouse cannot have firearms in the house with a felon - was because felons could get access to the firearms. Plenty were. Just like the G-man was doing.

Keep a clean record!

Ketec_owner hit it on the spot, criminals are the reason we have to put up with stupid gun laws and anti-gun groups.

artherd
08-30-2006, 4:15 PM
Once a felon always a felon. No right to vote and no right to own firearms. As the saying goes "Can't do the time? Don't do the crime. "

keltec_owner, does your SU-16 "10 round" mag hold 11 (like many 10 round mags, not just kel-tec but glock, h&k, and others)? If so, you are a felon.

Still feel high and mighty?

MikeK
08-30-2006, 4:17 PM
keltec_owner, does your SU-16 "10 round" mag hold 11 (like many 10 round mags, not just kel-tec but glock, h&k, and others)? If so, you are a felon.

Still feel high and mighty?
So you're saying being a felon is okay as long as it's a stupid gun law that was broken?

Nice.

NeoWeird
08-30-2006, 4:37 PM
Keep in mind our founding fathers were felons of the worst regard (treason) and most would be put to DEATH on the spot if captured, no trial needed, and those who killed them would have been heros to an extent.

A felon is only a felon in the eyes of the person who is trying to control them. While some crimes like rape and murder and not acceptable under any circumstance, there are other "crimes" that sometimes need someone to take a stand against before freedom and justice can prevail. Have you all forgotten small things like India's ability to make salt and Ghandi's march to the sea? Of course we have, because ALL laws MUST be obeyed because they are for our better good, right?

I heard something interesting in school, the person (I believe an American History teacher) was going over how history repeats itself. The first point she made was asking the class to name all wars and conflicts we had been in, after we had them all we took the total number of years America had existed and then figured an average. We then figured that, more or less, our next major conflict would happen by the time we turned 18 (the next year 9/11 happened when I was 17). She also made another point that every major government in the world had been overthrown within it's first 200 years, either by an outside force, but normally by a coup of it's own people. We've been around for 230 years....aren't we a bit overdue? We are already nearing the same outrages that made us leave our original home country of England; our kids can't even pray in school (religious freedom was the major cause of the migration to America), taxes are out of control (and last I checked many of us don't get much of a say in what taxes are passed), etc. I'm not suggesting ANYTHING, just asking you to think about those things, and rethink what you're saying before you open your mouth.

ETA: If you think anyone who commits a crime is a bad person, then you are sadly wrong and clearly brainwashed. I may sound like an extremist but there is no denying that there is a HUGE difference between the strict definition of a criminal (ie: someone who commits a crime) and someone who is a bad person. Like I said, our founding fathers were criminals, yet they are national heros now. Time reveals all.

grammaton76
08-30-2006, 4:56 PM
You're a felon if you have been convicted of a felony, not before.

Anyway, there are also many internal magazine guns which will comfortably hold 11 rounds. California simply chooses to overlook them.

artherd
08-30-2006, 5:05 PM
So you're saying being a felon is okay as long as it's a stupid gun law that was broken?

Nice.

I am saying, that in this day and age, where many of us here on this board are likely guilty of some felony or another, that it is way too easy to become a felon.

Armed robbery = deserved felony.

Writing a bad check over $500? Owning a 10 round mag that will hold 11? I don't think that deserves a felony rap, do you?

EvolutionGSR
08-30-2006, 5:09 PM
You can get some felonies expunged, with good reason of course. Thats for a judge to decide. There is a lot you need to prove to have it done. I'm thinking that if it was a violent crime felony you don't have much of a chance.

ketec_owner
08-30-2006, 5:11 PM
Sorry - did know I was being "high and mighty" - I wasn't specifically addressing any particular person. If you found my comments offensive - then I apologize. However, I do stand by them. I think a felony conviction is pursued by a DA with good reason. Otherwise - it would have pled down to a lessor crime. Would it make sense if a convicted serial murderer had access to firearms? Not in my opinion. Does it make sense to classify a check forger as a felony. Well - if the amount is large enough? Sure thing.

I know people, whom I've grown up with, who have been convicted of crimes classified as felonies. Does it suck? Heck yeah! But did they commit a crime? Also heck yeah. I feel for them - but I also know it was justice. My comment was not aimed at anyone - it's really just a statement of principle.

CMEPTb
08-30-2006, 5:25 PM
So what'd ya do? ;)


I was framed, I tell ya - framed. Actually, I didn't do anything, and I own plenty of firearms, but a family member had a misunderstanding with the IRS and ended up in the slammer several years ago. The felony is non-violent, but he was forced to transfer ownership of his pistols to the wife's name, and get them out of the house. I know for a fact that he can re-apply to have his voting rights restored, but I don't know what the law is on getting his firearms back in the house so at least his wife can have a pistol in case of a brake in.

CMEPTb
08-30-2006, 5:28 PM
смерть, откуда Вы? Вы русский, есть всегда способы купить оружие! j/k :)


ya iz smolenska. a vi ot kuda?

slipknot
08-30-2006, 5:39 PM
According to DOJ, a felony conviction can be expunged. Even though the felony is expunged it does not restore the right to have afirearm. The expungement will restore your other rights.

ketec_owner
08-30-2006, 5:44 PM
IRS sound like a federal matter.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/bills/?billtype=H.R.&billnumb=1434&congress=108

MikeK
08-30-2006, 6:38 PM
Writing a bad check over $500? Owning a 10 round mag that will hold 11? I don't think that deserves a felony rap, do you?
Yes. I do. Problem?

In a democracy, the people have the government they deserve.

NeoWeird
08-30-2006, 7:54 PM
Yes. I do. Problem?

In a democracy, the people have the government they deserve.


Wrong. In a democracy the people are the government and all people are equal, with equal rights and equal liberties; last I checked someone in just about every other state has the liberty to purchase items restricted here, and the only thing seperating us is an imaginary line in the ground that divides where we live; not what government we belong to.

Our government has the RESPONSABILITY to serve the people, not the POWER to control them. Things have become awfully skewed in the name of safety, and you are an idiot if you do not realize that. Even those who wrote and enforce the laws have said our personal liberties must be sacrificed to maintin safety. That is NOT democracy.

artherd
08-30-2006, 8:28 PM
Sorry - did know I was being "high and mighty" - I wasn't specifically addressing any particular person. If you found my comments offensive - then I apologize. However, I do stand by them. I think a felony conviction is pursued by a DA with good reason. Otherwise - it would have pled down to a lessor crime.
I don't agree. "Good reason" can be in the true interests of justice, or it can be because he wasn't a black dude.

The ammount is $500 for passing a BAD check, not a forged check afaik. Is it a crime? Sure. Is it worthy

No, far too easy to earn a felony these days in my opinion.

PS: I didn't mean my comments as a slam, more as an eye opener to consider before condemning any and all felons as the scumm of the earth.

Then again, a serial murderer not only should not be allowed access to guns, but should not be allowed access to society at all. lock him up and throw away the key, (or lethal injection, but I can't fully get behind that due to the number of bad cases. In principle I'm pro death penalty, in practice, well, our legal system is too far from perfect.)

artherd
08-30-2006, 8:32 PM
Yes. I do. Problem?
I have a Big Problem(tm) with the idea that I deserve to have my life completely destroyed because I took extra effort to legally purchase a CA (and previously fed AWB) compliant 10 round mag, yes.
In a democracy, the people have the government they deserve.
We don't have a democracy, we have a Representative Socialism.

I think we've both stated our positions in a relatively (and in your case, terrifingly) articulate mannar. I'm done with this thread, lest I get hauled off. (along with the tens of thousands of LEOs who are also guilty of having 10 round mags that might just hold 11.)

CMEPTb
08-30-2006, 11:33 PM
IRS sound like a federal matter.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/bills/?billtype=H.R.&billnumb=1434&congress=108


He was brought up on federal charges, not state...but had to get rid of the pistols in the house. Does it matter for firearms ownership purposes whether its a federal or state offense?

ketec_owner
08-31-2006, 6:34 AM
From my understanding, there is no federal law on expunging felonies. There are some states that have laws.

xenophobe
08-31-2006, 8:03 AM
A pardon from the Govenor or President would expunge a felony.

stator
09-01-2006, 6:35 AM
Once a felon always a felon. No right to vote and no right to own firearms. As the saying goes "Can't do the time? Don't do the crime. "



Internet myth on felons never being able to vote. Here's the state list:

No disfranchisement for felony convictions (prisioners may vote):
ME, PR, VT

Voting restored after release from prison:
DC, HI, IL, IN, MA, MI, MT, NH, ND, OH, OR, PA, SD, UT

Voting restored after release from prison and completion of parole (people on probation may vote):
CA, CO, CT, NY

Voting restored after completion of prison, parole and probation:
AK, AR, GA, ID, KS, LA, MN, MO, NE*, NJ, NM, NC, OK, RI, SC, TX, WV, WI

Permanent disfranchisement for some felony convictions, unless government approves individual rights restoration:
AZ, DE, MD, MS, NV, TN, WA, WY

Permanent disfranchisement for all felony convictions, unless government approves individual rights restoration:
AL, FL, IA, KY, VA


Anybody believes that the Democrats do not work on having felons vote (they predominately vote democrat)?

mow
09-01-2006, 6:41 AM
The only way I know of to become an ex-felon is to have your felonious record expunged. A Gooobernatorial or Presidential pardon would suffice but there are other avenues.

JPglee1
09-01-2006, 8:30 AM
You can have most non violent felonies reduced to a misdemeanor by filing a motion to reduce (1203.4 motion) and having the judge sign it off.

I know someone who got convicted of a felony and had their P.O. file the 1203.4 on their behalf and had rights restored to misdemeanor status.

Once you get a 1203.4 you're no longer a convicted felon, legally, and can have guns again after 10yrs from the last conviction date.

Believe it or not, theres only a very small number of misdemeanors that prevent gun ownership.

Petty possession of drugs (like pot) and DUIs don't preclude gun ownership as many people think.

The only misdemeanors that ruin it for you are domestic violence, terrorist threats and most violent/robbbery type stuff.

Its interesting topic for sure.

I know in states like Texas a felon can be given his right to own a gun back, for home protection only. I.E. he can have a gun but can never take it out of the home.

I believe Montana is the same as well.



J

CMEPTb
09-01-2006, 1:34 PM
You can have most non violent felonies reduced to a misdemeanor by filing a motion to reduce (1203.4 motion) and having the judge sign it off.

I know someone who got convicted of a felony and had their P.O. file the 1203.4 on their behalf and had rights restored to misdemeanor status.

Once you get a 1203.4 you're no longer a convicted felon, legally, and can have guns again after 10yrs from the last conviction date.

Believe it or not, theres only a very small number of misdemeanors that prevent gun ownership.

Petty possession of drugs (like pot) and DUIs don't preclude gun ownership as many people think.

The only misdemeanors that ruin it for you are domestic violence, terrorist threats and most violent/robbbery type stuff.

Its interesting topic for sure.

I know in states like Texas a felon can be given his right to own a gun back, for home protection only. I.E. he can have a gun but can never take it out of the home.

I believe Montana is the same as well.



J


Thank you very much - this is exactly the info I was looking for. (I was under the impression that any misdeamenor will prevent you from owning firearms, but others in the household may still own them - guess I was wrong).

JPglee1
09-02-2006, 8:41 AM
Thank you very much - this is exactly the info I was looking for. (I was under the impression that any misdeamenor will prevent you from owning firearms, but others in the household may still own them - guess I was wrong).

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf

go to page 29 (on the adobe pages, page 23 as listed on the pamphlet page #s)


As you can see below, even with these misdemeanors, in 10ys you can still get your guns back.

Any other misdemeanor NOT listed is a non issue. As soon as you clear probation, you can get your guns back.


Any person convicted of a misdemeanor violation for one or more of the following offenses
is prohibited from owning, possessing or having under his or her custody or control any
firearm within 10 years of the conviction (Penal Code § 12021(c)(1)):
• Threatening public officers and employees and school officials. (Penal Code § 71.)
• Threatening certain public officials, appointees, judges, staff or their immediate
families. (Penal Code § 76.)
• Possession of a deadly weapon with intent to commit an assault (Penal
Code § 12024.)
• Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to intimidate a witness. (Penal Code
§ 136.5.)
• Unauthorized possession/transportation of a machinegun. (Penal Code § 12220.)
• Threatening witnesses, victims, or informants. (Penal Code § 140.)
• Obstructing or delaying an officer or emergency medical technician and removing or
attempting to remove a firearm from these individuals. (Penal Code § 148(d).)
• Unauthorized possession of a weapon in a courtroom, courthouse or court building,
or at a public meeting. (Penal Code § 171b.)
• Bringing into or possessing a loaded firearm within the state capitol, legislative
offices, etc. (Penal Code § 171c.)
• Taking into or possessing loaded firearms within the Governor’s Mansion or
residence or other constitutional office, etc. (Penal Code § 171d.)
• Supplying firearms to any street gang member for use in street gang activity. (Penal
Code § 186.28.)
• Assault. (Penal Code §§ 240, 241.)
• Battery. (Penal Code §§ 242, 243.)
• Assault with a stun gun or taser weapon. (Penal Code § 244.5.)
• Assault with a deadly weapon or force likely to cause great bodily injury. (Penal
Code § 245.)
• Assault with a deadly weapon or instrument, by any means likely to produce great
bodily injury, or with a stun gun or taser, on a school employee engaged in the
performance of duties. (Penal Code § 245.5.)
• Discharging a firearm in a grossly negligent manner. (Penal Code § 246.3.)
• Shooting at an unoccupied aircraft, motor vehicle, or uninhabited building or
dwelling house. (Penal Code § 247.)
• Drawing or exhibiting any deadly weapon, including a firearm, in a rude or
threatening manner. (Penal Code § 417.)
• Drawing or exhibiting a firearm or other deadly weapon with the intentional
infliction of serious bodily injury. (Penal Code § 417.6.)
24 California Firearms Laws 2006
• Bringing into or possessing firearms upon or within public or private schools,
playgrounds and youth centers. (Penal Code § 626.9.)
• Willful infliction of corporal injury of a spouse or cohabitant. (Penal Code § 273.5.)
• Willful violation of a court order to prevent domestic violence. (Penal Code
§ 273.6.)
• Stalking. (Penal Code § 646.9.)
• Carrying a loaded firearm with the intent to commit a felony. (Penal Code § 12023.)
• Driver or owner of any vehicle who knowingly permits another person to discharge a
firearm from the vehicle or any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a
firearm from a motor vehicle. (Penal Code §§ 12034(b) and (d).)
• Criminal possession of a firearm. (Penal Code § 12040.)
• Selling a concealable firearm to a minor. (Penal Code § 12072(b).)
• Possessing handgun ammunition designed to penetrate metal or armor. (Penal Code
§ 12320.)
• Carrying a concealed or loaded firearm or other deadly weapon or wearing a peace
officer uniform while picketing, carrying a concealed loaded weapon, or wearing a
peace officer uniform. (Penal Code § 12590.)
• Possession of a firearm by a person ineligible to possess firearms because of his or
her mental history. (Welfare and Institutions Code § 8100).
• Providing a firearm or deadly weapon to a person who is prohibited from possessing
firearms because of his or her mental history. (Welfare and Institutions Code §
8101).
• Possession of a firearm by a person ineligible to possess firearms because of specific
mental prohibitions. (Welfare and Institutions Code § 8103).
• Bringing or sending firearms or other contraband into a juvenile detention facility.
(Welfare and Institutions Code § 871.5)
• Bringing or sending firearms or other contraband into youth authority institutions.
(Welfare and Institutions Code § 1001.5.)
• Violating Penal Code section 12072 involving sales and transfers of firearms,
including:
- selling or furnishing a firearm to any person whom the individual has reason to
believe is within a prohibited class;
- selling or furnishing a handgun to a minor;
- selling or furnishing a firearm to any person whom the seller knows, or has cause
to believe, is not intended to be the actual purchaser or transferee;
- acquiring a firearm for the purpose of providing it to a prohibited individual;
- selling or transferring a firearm without having the transaction processed through a
licensed dealer or law enforcement agency;
- committing any act of collusion relating to a Handgun Safety Certificate.
• Intimidating a witness or victim. (Penal Code § 136.1.)
California Firearms Laws 2006 25
• Threatening to cause death or great bodily injury to another person. (Penal
Code § 422)