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poothrowingape
01-30-2011, 10:44 AM
Apparently I am the gun guru within my circle of friends since I am the only one who knows general laws acording to firearms. However I have been asked a difficult question by one of my buddies:
He owns some long guns given to him by his father. However he doesn't think the registered owner of them is his father. His father apparently has traded in the past with people he's known, one of them at a gun show (I vaguely remember that making a difference). Does anyone know if you can PPT firearms if they aren't under your name? My first guess is a negative but I figured I would ask.

AIMSMALL
01-30-2011, 10:46 AM
Long guns aren't registered, you can PPT them.

poothrowingape
01-30-2011, 10:59 AM
Awesome. Thank you!

jtmkinsd
01-30-2011, 11:01 AM
Apparently I am the gun guru within my circle of friends since I am the only one who knows general laws acording to firearms. However I have been asked a difficult question by one of my buddies:
He owns some long guns given to him by his father. However he doesn't think the registered owner of them is his father. His father apparently has traded in the past with people he's known, one of them at a gun show (I vaguely remember that making a difference). Does anyone know if you can PPT firearms if they aren't under your name? My first guess is a negative but I figured I would ask.

Selling firearms that are not "registered" to you is no problem, DOJ doesn't care who they may be registered to. All that matters is that they were not reported stolen. As was stated, long guns are not registered, and in the case of handguns, DOJ is more concerned with making sure the person buying them is not prohibited. So, no worries...unless they were reported stolen as I stated.

CaliforniaLiberal
01-30-2011, 1:15 PM
There is no requirement for gun registration in California. Except for CA "Assault Weapons". Also, if you move to CA and bring handguns with you you're supposed to file a form with the state to tell them about them.

Most (some exceptions) sales of firearms must be through a transfer by a Federal Firearms Licensee with a back ground check and 10 day waiting period. The record of sales and transfers of long guns are by law destroyed by the State of CA once they are complete. There is no record of long gun sales or transfers. The record of sales and transfers of handguns are kept on file by the State. There are several ways that one might be legally in possession of a "Unregistered" firearm in CA. It is not illegal to possess "Unregistered" firearms (except CA "Assault Weapons") in CA.


Here's the CA Bureau of Firearms.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/


Here's the BOF FAQ Go to question 26.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php



26. How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?

There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own. Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.


Also, check out Intrafamilial Transfers and http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf


The CalGuns Foundation FAQ is a fantastic source for information such as that you seek.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Can_I_buy.2Fsell.2Fown_an_unregistered_firearm .3F

Can I buy/sell/own an unregistered firearm?

Yes.
California does not require firearms to be registered.
Handguns that have gone through CA FFLs are registered through the DROS process.
Long guns, other than 'assault weapons', are not registered through DROS, since no firearm information - make, model, caliber, etc. - is recorded.
Sales since 1991 have been required to use an FFL, so nearly all transfers since then have gone through DROS.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Firearms_Registration

bwiese
01-30-2011, 1:38 PM
Various posters above have it correct.

Remember that a HUGE fraction of guns do not have any record in Sacramento of their ownership - they were legally acquired, transferred, inherited or sold to a buddy in a KMart parking lot before 1/1/1991 without any benefit of paperwork. And people moved into CA (before 1/1/1998) without registering their handguns, either.

If there were a requirement for a gun to be papered the transfer process/PPT would grind to a halt.

He can go PPT his gun(s).

poothrowingape
01-30-2011, 6:49 PM
So can you PPT handguns not in your name too?

ke6guj
01-30-2011, 6:53 PM
yes. The PPT DROS will go through, even if the handgun is not currently in your name. CADOJ has basically taken the position that it is best to allow the transfer, to get the handgun "into the system" then to make it a contraband handugn that can never be legally sold again, relegating it to the black market forever.

CaliforniaLiberal
01-30-2011, 7:00 PM
No one cares who the handguns are coming from, just who is buying them. Unless they've been reported stolen. Or if they have a threaded barrel or can fire a shotgun shell or any of that other CA Handgun Assault Weapon stuff.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

AIMSMALL
01-30-2011, 7:41 PM
No one cares who the handguns are coming from, just who is buying them. Unless they've been reported stolen. Or if they have a threaded barrel or can fire a shotgun shell or any of that other CA Handgun Assault Weapon stuff.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

What if the seller is a prohibited person?

jtmkinsd
01-30-2011, 7:56 PM
What if the seller is a prohibited person?

Then they are supposed to be disposing of their guns anyway. Only way DOJ would know is if the buyer was denied, DOJ would then run the seller's background and would inform the dealer the firearm needs to be turned over to local LE.

EugeneO
02-03-2011, 11:08 PM
Does...
"12078 (c) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply
to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a
handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other
means by one individual to another if both individuals are
members of the same immediate family."
Mean that if my brother gives me a simple shotgun (we both live in CA about 2 1/2 hours apart) I DON'T have to file any paperwork or pay any fees? I don't mind doing so but if there is a 10 day wait it's going to be a REAL pain since it's a 5 hour round trip and gas is $3.30 a gallon - know what I mean? He gave me an old 50's/Korean era British Enfield Rifle a couple of years ago for Christmas and we never did any paperwork (I think because it was considered a "curio?"). Do I have to file paperwork and will there be a 10 day wait? Please advise - a quick reply would be appreciated too. Thanks.

freonr22
02-03-2011, 11:18 PM
Tag

ke6guj
02-04-2011, 12:25 AM
Does...
"12078 (c) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply
to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a
handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other
means by one individual to another if both individuals are
members of the same immediate family."
Mean that if my brother gives me a simple shotgun (we both live in CA about 2 1/2 hours apart) I DON'T have to file any paperwork or pay any fees? I don't mind doing so but if there is a 10 day wait it's going to be a REAL pain since it's a 5 hour round trip and gas is $3.30 a gallon - know what I mean?
no, your brother, per CA gun law, is not a member of your immediate family. The exemption does not apply to a transfer between the two of you.

12078(c)(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.


He gave me an old 50's/Korean era British Enfield Rifle a couple of years ago for Christmas and we never did any paperwork (I think because it was considered a "curio?").correct, because it was a 50+ year-old C&R long gun, it was exempt from the transfer requirement.

12078(t)(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.




Do I have to file paperwork and will there be a 10 day wait? Please advise - a quick reply would be appreciated too. Thanks.
if it isn't a C&R long gun over 50-years old, or an antique firearm, then yes, you do have to do paperwork at a dealer and do the 10-day wait.

ale014
02-04-2011, 3:26 AM
I have a similar question.

A long time ago, when I was 19, my cousin came into possession of a glock. I honestly don't know the full story of how he came into possession but supposedly it was from a LEO friend or just a regular civilian friend who passed away. But anyways it was just handed to my cousin.

My question is, if my cousin PPT the gun at an FFL, what would happen to him as a seller if it was found out that the gun was used in a crime? and i'm going to assume the gun will get melted after the cases is resolved or can my cousin get it back if nothing happens to him?

He already got rid of it, what a shame too, i would've bought it when a few years ago when i turned 21

CaliforniaLiberal
02-04-2011, 3:42 AM
How can anyone know that a your cousins Glock was used in a crime?

If it were reported stolen and the serial number was on record that might trigger an alert?

But there is no way for investigators to know what specific firearms was used in a crime unless they have it in the crime lab for testing and comparison with bullets pulled out of someone's wounds. Even then the evidence is often ambiguous. It's not like on TV.

Am I missing something here?

EugeneO
02-04-2011, 5:55 AM
And yet I thought was no paperwork for long guns in CA??? All the forms I looked at specifically state HANDGUN all over them. This is about a shotgun. I think I understand the handgun issues well enough, but the long gun stuff confuses me.
If HE doesn't have any paperwork on the gun (not sure - I'll have to ask) and this is not a sale but a gift, and there is no paper requirement for long guns in CA, why do I have to file and have a 10 day wait? I'm confused....

railroader
02-04-2011, 6:10 AM
And yet I thought was no paperwork for long guns in CA??? All the forms I looked at specifically state HANDGUN all over them. This is about a shotgun. I think I understand the handgun issues well enough, but the long gun stuff confuses me.
If HE doesn't have any paperwork on the gun (not sure - I'll have to ask) and this is not a sale but a gift, and there is no paper requirement for long guns in CA, why do I have to file and have a 10 day wait? I'm confused....

This to make sure the gun isn't stolen and that the buyer isn't a prohibited person..

CaliforniaLiberal
02-04-2011, 7:29 AM
And yet I thought was no paperwork for long guns in CA??? All the forms I looked at specifically state HANDGUN all over them. This is about a shotgun. I think I understand the handgun issues well enough, but the long gun stuff confuses me.
If HE doesn't have any paperwork on the gun (not sure - I'll have to ask) and this is not a sale but a gift, and there is no paper requirement for long guns in CA, why do I have to file and have a 10 day wait? I'm confused....


Welcome to CalGuns Eugene!

Gun owners in CA don't have to possess "Paperwork on their guns." Sales and Transfers of handguns are recorded at the time of the background check by the FFL and the 10 days waiting period. Records of sales of handguns (DROS) are kept by the CA DOJ. Records of sales of long guns are destroyed after the transaction/transfer is complete.

Gifts of firearms require a Person to Person Transfer (PPT) by a FFL with ?DROS paperwork, background check and waiting period. With some exceptions.

Go forth, and read. Learn


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California

outkast353
02-04-2011, 6:12 PM
I was kind of searching for the same thing right now. Someone I know just found some guns in their closet, a couple rifles and possibly a handgun. They wanted to know how they could check to see who's they were or if there is any record of them in the "system". how can she do this?

CaliforniaLiberal
02-04-2011, 6:40 PM
I was kind of searching for the same thing right now. Someone I know just found some guns in their closet, a couple rifles and possibly a handgun. They wanted to know how they could check to see who's they were or if there is any record of them in the "system". how can she do this?



Made me get up and check all my closets.:D

Possibly a handgun? Trying to imagine how it could be unclear if it's a handgun or not. Best bring it out in the light and have a good look at it.

I've never tried this myself but perhaps you could take the guns to the Sheriff's Office and have them run the serial numbers. I'd definitely call first, some law enforcement types get touchy about folks walking in with hands full of firearms. Make sure they're unloaded!

Of course they might take them away and keep them forever.

ale014
02-04-2011, 6:56 PM
How can anyone know that a your cousins Glock was used in a crime?

If it were reported stolen and the serial number was on record that might trigger an alert?

But there is no way for investigators to know what specific firearms was used in a crime unless they have it in the crime lab for testing and comparison with bullets pulled out of someone's wounds. Even then the evidence is often ambiguous. It's not like on TV.

Am I missing something here?

LOL sorry i know Its not like on TV. I did try to imply if the gun was stolen, it probably didn't come off like that as i re-read it now. When i said 'crime' it was too generalized and sounds like i ment part of a shooting. That is part of it, but i was more concern if yes the gun was stolen.

eta, also where i stated if the gun will be melted, i was thinking that the gun may be melted since the previous owner has passed on, and there is no writing in which who gets to own the gun..

I know, sometimes my head is racing with ideas and scenarios and when i type things out it comes out totally different....this is what CA laws do to someone when they try to make sense of it all...:rolleyes:

Dutch3
02-04-2011, 6:58 PM
It's like the DMV. They don't care who previously owned a vehicle. All they care about is that the buyer pay any necessary transfer fees, back registration if required and that it has a valid smog certificate.

It's all about revenue.

CaliforniaLiberal
02-04-2011, 7:31 PM
....this is what CA laws do to someone when they try to make sense of it all...:rolleyes:

We call that Post California Gun Law Syndrome. Traumatized California gun owners start to see gun laws in the shadows ever where there aren't any. It helps considerably when you can give up your natural impulse to try and make sense out of it. Try thinking of CA Gun Laws as being like jokes written by 5th Graders. Sometimes you have to laugh in self defense.

ale014
02-04-2011, 8:40 PM
We call that Post California Gun Law Syndrome. Traumatized California gun owners start to see gun laws in the shadows ever where there aren't any. It helps considerably when you can give up your natural impulse to try and make sense out of it. Try thinking of CA Gun Laws as being like jokes written by 5th Graders. Sometimes you have to laugh in self defense.

Actually, i don't think the law was written by 5th graders, probably more along the lines of pre-school children and finger paint.

Haven't you seen 'Are You Smarter than a 5th grader?' there are some bright kids out there and i think they can formulate better laws than CA law makers.
Who knows, maybe these kids can decipher the convoluted laws and give us an answer!

outkast353
02-05-2011, 8:15 AM
Made me get up and check all my closets.:D

Possibly a handgun? Trying to imagine how it could be unclear if it's a handgun or not. Best bring it out in the light and have a good look at it.

I've never tried this myself but perhaps you could take the guns to the Sheriff's Office and have them run the serial numbers. I'd definitely call first, some law enforcement types get touchy about folks walking in with hands full of firearms. Make sure they're unloaded!

Of course they might take them away and keep them forever.

yeah, well I'm getting asked indirectly(through someone else) so that has made the specifics a little vague.

poothrowingape
02-11-2011, 9:17 PM
So let me get this correct because it doesn't seem to be clicking. You can transfer long guns, and hand guns as if they're yours even if they aren't as long as they're not stolen? Also what about evil black rifles?

CaliforniaLiberal
02-11-2011, 11:40 PM
So let me get this correct because it doesn't seem to be clicking. You can transfer long guns, and hand guns as if they're yours even if they aren't as long as they're not stolen? Also what about evil black rifles?


Ah, Yes, Mmmmm Indeed, what about Evil Black Rifles?

I think you'll find that Evil Black Rifles are widely considered to be long guns. If they are truly cursed you'll have to take them to the Temple and spend some Credits to have the curse removed or they will cost you hit points every time you use them.:)

If you are going to be the gun guru for your circle of friends you're going to have to learn to do research on your own.

Your assignment for today is to learn about California Assault Weapons. If you wish to transfer an Assault Weapon then you've got problems. You may be able to modify said weapon so that it is no longer an Assault Weapon.

Go now and find the buttons at the top of the page that end in AW ID Interactive Chart or Flowchart. Read, study, learn. Go forth and be a Guru.

poothrowingape
02-12-2011, 8:00 AM
Ok cool, that answered my question. Thanks

donny douchebag
02-12-2011, 8:19 AM
A long time ago, when I was 19.....i would've bought it when a few years ago when i turned 21

Interesting concept of time you have there...

modernchaos
02-12-2011, 9:37 AM
Ah, Yes, Mmmmm Indeed, what about Evil Black Rifles?

I think you'll find that Evil Black Rifles are widely considered to be long guns. If they are truly cursed you'll have to take them to the Temple and spend some Credits to have the curse removed or they will cost you hit points every time you use them.:)

.


Ok, that was funny. :D I am glad my guns arent cursed, that sounds pricey!