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Dragon
08-29-2006, 6:30 PM
has any one built an used there AR in cali , and have any problems with DoJ agents snooping around, saying the AR is not legale, or local police.

Mudvayne540ld
08-29-2006, 6:48 PM
Tons of ppl on this forum have built an AR inside CA, including myself. I would be willing to bet that at least 98% of those people use them in CA also. I use mine in CA. Just know the laws, becasue they are on your side.

Thrillbilly
08-29-2006, 6:51 PM
I built one (my first AR ever) back in may. I have taken it out shooting just about every weekend since the build with zero problems.

bu-bye
08-29-2006, 6:58 PM
Everyone who has built an AR or AK the LEGAL WAY has been fine. Follow the law to the letter and if needed please ask someone here. Don't go asking a LEO or your local gunshop because 95% of them don't know anything about just what is legal and what is not. Bweise is the man to talk to if there are any doubts.

Jicko
08-29-2006, 6:59 PM
has any one built an used there AR in cali

Yes, many, and in CA legal configuration.



, and have any problems with DoJ agents snooping around,


What do "DoJ agents" look like?! In blue tight suit with a red/yellow S on their chest!? I seriously never know what one looks like....



saying the AR is not legale, or local police.

Some ARs a not LEGAL.


By the way, your whole run-on sentense doesn't really make sense.... *sigh*

Fjold
08-29-2006, 8:49 PM
I've been shooting my semiautomatic, fixed magazine rifle on private property and at a public range since January without a single issue.

xrMike
08-29-2006, 9:42 PM
I ran into a cop at the local range with my AR in fixed mag configuration (I didn't even know he was a cop until halfway through the conversation). He looked closely at the gun. Said it looked nice, but he was wondering why I was breaking it open to load it.

I explained to him how it was configured legally, and that's how I had to shoot it, according to California law. He didn't really know anything about OLL's, so he appreciated the info. He did say it was a damn shame I had to shoot it that way, and that he really didn't care HOW people had their rifles configured, as long as they didn't use them to commit crimes. :D That was pretty cool, I thought.

So don't be afraid of cops as long as you're running legal. You can use the oppourtunity to educate somebody and make a new friend.

guimus
08-29-2006, 9:51 PM
That brings up a useful point. While in a court of law the burden of proof is on the DA, if you want life to be easier it is handy to carry copies of the letters describing WHY your AR is legal. May save you some hours (and days w/o your rifle) if a LEO decides to not take your word for it.

ivanimal
08-30-2006, 9:14 PM
I deleted your redundant thread, keep posting you will get the hang of it.

Not only have I seen and used OLL's at the range, I have also given advice to people out there with obviously illegal configurations to learn the law and abide.

OLL's are great at the range, everyone enjoys them till you see one that calls attention to the whole group of rifles.

I have a registered AW and was offered a lot of money from someone at a range to buy it. I told him it was like gold to me and illegal anyhow. He said "we can go out back and do the exchange" I said I would rather stay free and to leave before I reported him to the authorities. He looked at me like I was a criminal.:eek:

Be careful!!! Do not cross the law. Period.

bwiese
08-30-2006, 11:06 PM
.... He said "we can go out back and do the exchange" I said I would rather stay free and to leave before I reported him to the authorities. He looked at me like I was a criminal.:eek:

Be careful!!! Do not cross the law. Period.

Yep. If you are approached/enticed/cajoled in an illegal AW attempt, you might actually want to report it. You also wanna reject the transaction in a LOUD VOICE in case it's being recorded, just so judge/jury knows your stance.

If for some reason something in court comes up you look 'cleaner than Caesar's wife'.

Jim Jeffries wrote When The BATF Comes A-Callin' which does primarily focus on dealer activities:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/jim_jeffries/jim4.txt


However the article is full of general truths esp regarding firearms, DOJ and law enforcement bodies and entrapment issues, etc. In particular relevance to this thread, and ivanimal's post above, note the underlined portion:


The Undercover Solicitation. This may be a contact by BATF which, if you are fortunate, you never learn was made. It is a sad fact that a high percentage of non-violent federal gun crimes committed in the United States (perhaps even a majority) are manufactured by BATF -- crimes that would never have occurred but for the fact of an offer from or solicitation by a BATF informant or undercover agent to an unwitting citizen. Technically, most of
these BATF-sponsored offenses do not rise to legal entrapment. But they would never have happened if BATF had not planted the idea and created the opportunity. This is done for the simplest and ugliest of all bureaucratic reasons: agent and agency self-preservation and budget and case statistics.

Sometimes you will know you are being shopped -- perhaps by recognizing the agent or perhaps by the sheer stupidity of the approach. You are probably also being recorded, possibly even videotaped. Your response should be precisely the same whether it ultimately turns out that you were speaking to a government microphone or to the village idiot. You should firmly, but not politely, advise the proponent that what he/she is proposing is illegal and that he/she is no longer welcome on your premises or at your table. Then remember RULE ONE. Do not engage in a discussion of the law or alternative solutions to the "customer's" proposal; terminate the conversation. Politeness is not called for when someone is either intentionally or ignorantly soliciting you to commit a federal felony. And your politeness on a federal tape
recording in a subsequent criminal prosecution can often be construed as acquiescence in or lack of strong feeling about committing a crime.

Some of my bolder clients, who are truly tired of being harassed this way, are fully prepared to make a citizen's arrest in such circumstances and then call the local sheriff to come collect the offender (attempts and solicitations to commit an offense are also crimes under federal and state law). If this appeals to you, make sure first that the law of your state permits a citizen's arrest. Know the amount of legal force you can use to effect such an arrest. Then cuff the son of a ***** and give him a taste of what he's probably trying to do to you.



This caution may also be appropriate:


A criminal solicitation by someone you've known for years, and who you know cannot be an agent, is especially dangerous. It probably means that your acquaintance has gotten his own tail in a crack and is now making cases for BATF in an attempt to lighten his own load. Finally, bear in mind that an undercover approach may be made by a female agent or by a mixed couple.

Matt C
08-30-2006, 11:49 PM
Yep, if I think its a idiot I'll tell him to get bent, but if I think it's DOJ, he gonna be in cuffs real quick. BTW, in CA you can arrest for any public offense commited in your presence, and obviously conspiricy to commit some sort of AW violation counts.

ivanimal
08-31-2006, 12:01 AM
Some of my bolder clients, who are truly tired of being harassed this way, are fully prepared to make a citizen's arrest in such circumstances and then call the local sheriff to come collect the offender (attempts and solicitations to commit an offense are also crimes under federal and state law). If this appeals to you, make sure first that the law of your state permits a citizen's arrest. Know the amount of legal force you can use to effect such an arrest. Then cuff the son of a ***** and give him a taste of what he's probably trying to do to you.

This is exactly how I felt. I stewed about it for the rest of my shooting session then told the rangemaster. I happen to be a member at this range, and a friend of the rangemaster. He unpolitely, was having a conversation, with finger poking involved, when I was leaving. He was yelling and treating this chump like a kid. I dont like making trouble, but like idiots even less. As I drove away I got some choice looks from him.:rolleyes:

PatrickM.
08-31-2006, 2:58 AM
I agree with you Ivan.


If i were you Ivan....I would have taken my cell phone out of my pocket and called the authorities that second right in front of him just to make sure that you meant business (your size and tone of voice probably did the job too:D )

There are lots of stupid people in CA....thanks god we all (Calgunners) dont fall under that category:) ;) :)


Patrick M.

jsigone
08-31-2006, 7:35 AM
wow.....now that has me scared to get an AR. I really want an AR but don't want to deal the the political BS behind it. I might just settle for a SU16CA if I can't build an AR due to lack of CA legal lowers out there. I knew I shiould have gotten some STAG lowers back in May.

ivanimal
08-31-2006, 8:14 AM
wow.....now that has me scared to get an AR. I really want an AR but don't want to deal the the political BS behind it. I might just settle for a SU16CA if I can't build an AR due to lack of CA legal lowers out there. I knew I shiould have gotten some STAG lowers back in May.


Dont let a few stories hold you back. I have shot my OLL 20 other times with no incident. I an just pointing out how you should know the law and then abide by it. Then you have no worries. I have seen illegally configured rifles at the range and nobody but me ever says a word. :eek:

Get a reciever, build it legally, carry a copy of the law in the pistol grip if fixed magazine. Or if it has no pistol grip you are golden. Be sure to understand the features you can have and cannot have, with each configuration. do a search on this forum for that info.

jsigone
08-31-2006, 9:18 AM
Can you point me in the right direction to get a CA lowers, now that the STAGs are not on the DOJ list. If I build an AR, it's gonna happen parts at a time and take a few months to build. I'd just like to have the lowers so I can start somewhere and keep doing my HW before I spend more on stuff I can have or equp.

How does the fixed mag work? Sorry I'm new to rifles, just love renting them when I take my XD40 out:D The AR we rented at the range was pistol grip AND removable mag....I guess I can't have something like that.

grammaton76
08-31-2006, 12:38 PM
Can you point me in the right direction to get a CA lowers, now that the STAGs are not on the DOJ list. If I build an AR, it's gonna happen parts at a time and take a few months to build. I'd just like to have the lowers so I can start somewhere and keep doing my HW before I spend more on stuff I can have or equp.

www.tenpercentfirearms.com
www.coldwarshooters.com

And if you're in the bay area, drop in on San Jose Gun Exchange.

How does the fixed mag work? Sorry I'm new to rifles, just love renting them when I take my XD40 out:D The AR we rented at the range was pistol grip AND removable mag....I guess I can't have something like that.

You can have either a detachable mag and NO pistol grip (use the Monsterman grip or SRB, available from either of those places and www.srbtactical.com) or use a fixed mag.

Generally, they replace your magazine release button and (depending on design) the spring. Different designs do different things - the most popular early one (Sporting Conversion kit) uses a polymer spacer.

jsigone
08-31-2006, 1:29 PM
the no pistol grip thing swings more towards the SU16. I'm in San Diego, I would like to find a local shop that get lower for me, I suppose I can go to LA if need be. The FFL tranfer is kinda steep.

chiefcrash
08-31-2006, 1:47 PM
wow.....now that has me scared to get an AR. I really want an AR but don't want to deal the the political BS behind it. I might just settle for a SU16CA if I can't build an AR due to lack of CA legal lowers out there. I knew I shiould have gotten some STAG lowers back in May.

keep in mind, if you really want an AR, but not the possible harrassment about legality, get a bushmaster CAR-15 top loading carbine.

It's an AR-15 with a fixed 10 round internal magazine, and a sealed mag well. Just to top it off, the DOJ said specifically that it was legal for sale to the residents of Cali.

And if you ever move out of the safe (or by some act of god the AWB gets lifted), you can slap a normal lower on it and have a "normal" AR

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/azc-c15rm4ft.asp

grammaton76
08-31-2006, 4:53 PM
the no pistol grip thing swings more towards the SU16. I'm in San Diego, I would like to find a local shop that get lower for me, I suppose I can go to LA if need be. The FFL tranfer is kinda steep.

Royal Loan, on El Cajon Blvd just south of the 8. They'll do transfers.

If you want to simplify things, just order through CWS or DD's Ranch - I know CWS has RL on file already, and I'm almost positive that DD's does.