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View Full Version : Locking Set Screw on M4 type Buttstock - Fixed for featureless purposes?


AlexDD
01-29-2011, 1:26 PM
I saw this video about the MR556. Not to discuss the rifle but rather the adjustable telescoping stock that can be locked with a screw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMuEvCV75AI

I can't find other video where I saw someone do it but the stock once adjusted can be locked in with a screw.

Here is the quote from the manufacturer:

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/mr556_general.asp

"The retractable buttstock can be locked into a solid, non-moving position by tightening an Allen screw in the bottom of the stock."


So my question is for California purposes does this HK stock meet the criteria for a fixed stock once the allen screw is tightened?



And yes, I do understand that it would be a risk since an LEO can loosen it but at the same time all the folding stocks on the SCARs, etc... that are pinned, but easily removed, run the same risk.

I have become adept a pinning my M4 stocks but this looks like a great off the shelf example that would allow me to be featureless in California and change when I leave the state. My current stocks get pinned and not easily changed unless I drive out the pin.

xenophobe
01-29-2011, 1:32 PM
So my question is for California purposes does this HK meet the criteria for a fixed stock once the allen screw is tightened?


Not likely... and being LE you probably wouldn't want to be a test case. I'd rather play it safe in untested areas than to risk it all. That's just me. Of course you can make the argument, but will a judge/jury buy it? Just pin it.

AlexDD
01-29-2011, 6:05 PM
Not likely... and being LE you probably wouldn't want to be a test case. I'd rather play it safe in untested areas than to risk it all. That's just me. Of course you can make the argument, but will a judge/jury buy it? Just pin it.

I understand what you are saying but isn't that the same risk everyone who fixes a folding stock on a SCAR or a SIG 556 since it is so easy to remove the device as if nothing were there?

AlexDD
01-29-2011, 6:09 PM
http://www.riflegear.com/p-861-folding-stock-block-fn-scar.aspx

SCAR and SIG 556 mechanism

AlexDD
01-29-2011, 6:11 PM
http://www.riflegear.com/images/Product/medium/861.jpg

Folding Stock locking mechanism.

"This replacement for the standard folding stock release button will lock the stock into a non-folding configuration. *By locking the stock, the rifle will meet the California overall length (OAL) requirement of 30" without the need of an extended length muzzle device.

Installation is simple and is completely reversible without any modification to the firearm, requiring only simple hand tools"



Ps Mobile won't let me do multiple copy pastes in one thread.

Suvorov
01-30-2011, 7:47 AM
http://www.riflegear.com/images/Product/medium/861.jpg

Folding Stock locking mechanism.

"This replacement for the standard folding stock release button will lock the stock into a non-folding configuration. *By locking the stock, the rifle will meet the California overall length (OAL) requirement of 30" without the need of an extended length muzzle device.

Installation is simple and is completely reversible without any modification to the firearm, requiring only simple hand tools"



Ps Mobile won't let me do multiple copy pastes in one thread.

Does a similar device exist for a standard M4 buttstock ?

AlexDD
01-30-2011, 8:28 AM
Does a similar device exist for a standard M4 buttstock ?

No. Most people pin their stock by driving a roll pin into part of the tube.

This new HK stock now has a set screw and the reason for my post. It goes to the degree of permanence of fixing the stock and the difficulty of how a tool can remove it.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
01-30-2011, 11:22 AM
A setscrew can be removed with the use of tools, but so can a roll pin.

If the setscrew can't be loosened or removed with one's fingers, that strikes me as similar degrees of permanence to pinning in terms of making a normally collapsible buttstock non-collapsible.

An example below; an M4 stock, modified to remove the release lever/pin/spring and replace it with a setscrew. This stock cannot be adjusted without the use of a tool, which IMO makes it "non-collapsible" within the intent of CA law.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/grumpyoldretiredcop/AR15%20Fixed%20Carbine%20Stock/OverallView.jpg

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/grumpyoldretiredcop/AR15%20Fixed%20Carbine%20Stock/Closeup.jpg

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/grumpyoldretiredcop/AR15%20Fixed%20Carbine%20Stock/BottomView.jpg

AlexDD
01-30-2011, 12:44 PM
^this.

This is the logic I was thinking. Similar to the bullet button but for collapsible stocks, except the only time you could adjust is when the upper is separated from the lower.

it would be nice to see more factory stock offer something like the set screw or similar. I actually like how one of my pinned stock feels due to the lock up.

PEBKAC
01-30-2011, 1:47 PM
I've always kind of assumed that if you can't make it collapse without breaking it or pulling out some tools, it's fixed.

But given the enormity of the charges that can be brought against you if the set screw breaks, erring on the side of caution is never a bad thing.

IANAL etc.

Sam .223
01-30-2011, 8:17 PM
on my S12 i riveted the lever of the stock to make it non collapseable. i figured that looks permanent enough and is still somewhat easy to remove down the road if need be.

morfeeis
03-05-2011, 10:13 PM
this gave me a great idea on how to pin my stock than ks guys.....

1911su16b870
03-05-2011, 10:32 PM
Here is how I locked my M4 stock in place. Drill & tap throught the stock and into the receiver extension, locktite and socket head cap screw.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1015/img0111mo.jpg

Grumpyoldretiredcop
03-05-2011, 11:19 PM
I thought about doing it that ^ way, but since the slots in the side of the stock body don't line up well with the rib on the bottom of the buffer tube, I didn't like the idea of possibly deforming the buffer tube and potential malfunctions.

stix213
03-06-2011, 10:24 AM
I believe the minimum standard to be that you cannot just adjust the stock with your hands. Require some kind of tool to do so.

As PEBKAC said though, nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution. These are felony charges after all.

tonelar
03-06-2011, 12:07 PM
It's neat seeing all the different ways Calgunners have fixed their stocks on here.
If it takes a tool to adjust positions, it's not a collapsible stock.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=88641&stc=1&d=1299445574
I just bought a tap and an allen bolt for my last featureless build.

http://www.pinbits.com/images/BBS2.JPG
If you want semi tamper-proof, these torx bolts look good to me.

Southwest Chuck
03-06-2011, 12:17 PM
To increase the level of "legal" security, I would suggest replacing the existing screw you're using to a special security torx screw like this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21TcV%2BqO7HL.jpg

Top view of the head:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0gi6jkm4MOE2QUiwigWp_nu-qQpnhl8_CKTIGkyE_hM3ENyr74Q

This takes a special torx screw driver, is not readily removeable without special tools and designed to give a measure/intent of permanence IMO, and I doubt that any LEO would have one in his toolbox. ;)


You can go one step further. If you want more protection, use whats called a shear-head screw/bolt. After certain amount of torque is applied while tightening, the head of this screw "shears off", preventing its' ready removal.

http://www.phaesun.com/typo3temp/GB/b178fd02af.jpg

There are special tools for their removal, but you can remove them with a small sharp punch, gently tapping them around to unscrew.

As a disclaimer :p, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advise, just a suggestion. :D

Southwest Chuck
03-06-2011, 12:46 PM
[QUOTE=tonelar;5949247]

Bet me to it by that ...much!;)