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View Full Version : Rem 870P Max Surefire OR M1A Socom I For SHTF?


insin
08-28-2006, 10:30 PM
I was wondering what my next firearm purchase will be. I am stuck between the Remington 870P Max Surefire which isnt cheap, or a M1A Socom I which isnt cheap either. I already own rifles that fire the .223 and 7.62x39 round. I wonder if, given the fact I already own two different rifle platforms already, if the 12 gauge would be a better pick now and then follow up with the .308 later.

I like the 870P Max Surefire due to the fact it pretty much built up from the factory. I prefer the Socom I to the railed counterpart due to the reduced weight and questionability of the utility of the rail on this rifle in the first place.

What do you think?

rssslvr
08-28-2006, 10:43 PM
Well everyone needs a shotgun for home defense.If you don't have one yet I would go with the 870

insin
08-28-2006, 11:19 PM
Thats kinda what I thought.

jdberger
08-28-2006, 11:20 PM
Nothing personal, but it is kind of a weirdly phrased question. Rifle and shotgun are so different. They have different purposes, different strengths and weaknesses.

Instead of asking, "Should I get an M1A or a Mini-14?" (both rifles) you are asking should I have a banana for lunch or read a book?

The M1A/M-14 platform is great for targets from 50 yards to 200 yards (yes you can use it at shorter and longer, but it takes more skill).

The 870 is a proven shotgun. With an 18" barrel it is useful from10 to 70 yards (optimistically). Maybe more with slugs and rifle sights.

wuhungsix
08-28-2006, 11:29 PM
You plan on going outside? SHTF in the house or outside?

I wouldn't get the surefire forearm that cost as much as another 870. Get a plain Express I think Remington still has a $30 rebate promotion for it. You can find the forms on the their website. If you can find one on sale and use the rebate you can probably have one for a tad above $200. Then spend the rest of your money on the M1A.:D

Jicko
08-28-2006, 11:46 PM
If money isn't an issue.... go for the 870P w/ Surefire.... even if it is not SHTF.... it still look cool when you are practicing room clearing inside your own house.... :D

insin
08-29-2006, 7:31 AM
If money isn't an issue.... go for the 870P w/ Surefire.... even if it is not SHTF.... it still look cool when you are practicing room clearing inside your own house.... :D

Exactly! Ha...

m1371
08-29-2006, 8:06 AM
I was wondering what my next firearm purchase will be. I am stuck between the Remington 870P Max Surefire which isnt cheap, or a M1A Socom I which isnt cheap either. I already own rifles that fire the .223 and 7.62x39 round. I wonder if, given the fact I already own two different rifle platforms already, if the 12 gauge would be a better pick now and then follow up with the .308 later.

I like the 870P Max Surefire due to the fact it pretty much built up from the factory. I prefer the Socom I to the railed counterpart due to the reduced weight and questionability of the utility of the rail on this rifle in the first place.

What do you think?
Try this on for size..... And see what you think.

If you do go for the Remington 870, take a look at what Big5 has in stock (if there's one near you). They carry a Remington 870 "Security" that is already built up pretty good and only needs a wee bit of tweaking to get it close to the 870P Max.

Remington 870 Security (Synthetic) (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_18inch_specs.asp)

Catch them on sale (which seems to be every month and a half or so) and it'll run you under $300 out the door. I picked one up at the beginning of this year while I was "in town" and the sale price was like $225 or so. Sales tax + DROS = cheap 12ga.

You can then pick up a SF fore-end light for about the same price, depending on what model you want. Looks like SF has two different 6v models for the 870 at $250 & $300. SureFire shotgun fore-end weaponlights : Remington 870 (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&sesent=00&carfnbr=124)

Gotta have the Wilson Combat/XS GhostRing sights? Check out Brownell's or another parts distributor. It looks like those will run you about $115, not counting how much it'll cost for installation. According to the Brownell's website, the front sight just epoxies over the existing bead and the rear needs one hole drilled and tapped. Should be a piece of cake for a gunsmith and fairly cheap, too. Wilson Combat Trak-Lock ghostring sight system (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12522&title=TRAK-LOCK?%20GHOST%20RING%20SIGHT%20SYSTEM)

By now you've pretty much got the same 870, for a lower price and minus the pistol-grip stock. If you've GOTTA have the SpeedFeed stock, looks like Brownell's also carries it, for $110. SpeedFeed pistol-grip stock (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12704&title=PISTOL+GRIP+SHOTGUN+STOCK)

So in theory you could build an 870 on your own that would be pretty much identical to the 870P Max. Now the big question is..... How much is it going to cost you to get an 870P Max here in CA?

I just took a look on Gunbroker and there's ONE 870P Max listed right now, but it's located in PA. The seller has a "Buy It Now" price set at $874.99 but there's no shipping price given. Figure $20 or so, I would guess?

Remington 870P Max (http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=55080794)

That looks like it'd be in the $900 price range, after you get it shipped out here and then run the DROS on it.

The Big5 shotty that you build up yourself? Less than that. And you could do everything over a period of time to spread the cost out a little instead of dropping all the $$$ in one big transaction. Might not hurt the pocketbook quite so bad to do that.

Which also means you've got some seed money for the SOCOM I account. :D

wayoutwest
08-29-2006, 8:27 AM
Try this on for size..... And see what you think.

If you do go for the Remington 870, take a look at what Big5 has in stock (if there's one near you). They carry a Remington 870 "Security" that is already built up pretty good and only needs a wee bit of tweaking to get it close to the 870P Max.

Remington 870 Security (Synthetic) (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_18inch_specs.asp)

Catch them on sale (which seems to be every month and a half or so) and it'll run you under $300 out the door. I picked one up at the beginning of this year while I was "in town" and the sale price was like $225 or so. Sales tax + DROS = cheap 12ga.

You can then pick up a SF fore-end light for about the same price, depending on what model you want. Looks like SF has two different 6v models for the 870 at $250 & $300. SureFire shotgun fore-end weaponlights : Remington 870 (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&sesent=00&carfnbr=124)

Gotta have the Wilson Combat/XS GhostRing sights? Check out Brownell's or another parts distributor. It looks like those will run you about $115, not counting how much it'll cost for installation. According to the Brownell's website, the front sight just epoxies over the existing bead and the rear needs one hole drilled and tapped. Should be a piece of cake for a gunsmith and fairly cheap, too. Wilson Combat Trak-Lock ghostring sight system (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12522&title=TRAK-LOCK?%20GHOST%20RING%20SIGHT%20SYSTEM)

By now you've pretty much got the same 870, for a lower price and minus the pistol-grip stock. If you've GOTTA have the SpeedFeed stock, looks like Brownell's also carries it, for $110. SpeedFeed pistol-grip stock (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12704&title=PISTOL+GRIP+SHOTGUN+STOCK)

So in theory you could build an 870 on your own that would be pretty much identical to the 870P Max. Now the big question is..... How much is it going to cost you to get an 870P Max here in CA?

I just took a look on Gunbroker and there's ONE 870P Max listed right now, but it's located in PA. The seller has a "Buy It Now" price set at $874.99 but there's no shipping price given. Figure $20 or so, I would guess?

Remington 870P Max (http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=55080794)

That looks like it'd be in the $900 price range, after you get it shipped out here and then run the DROS on it.

The Big5 shotty that you build up yourself? Less than that. And you could do everything over a period of time to spread the cost out a little instead of dropping all the $$$ in one big transaction. Might not hurt the pocketbook quite so bad to do that.

Which also means you've got some seed money for the SOCOM I account. :D

Well since you put it that way, I just may look into it also:)

JOEKILLA
08-29-2006, 10:52 AM
Try this on for size..... And see what you think.

If you do go for the Remington 870, take a look at what Big5 has in stock (if there's one near you). They carry a Remington 870 "Security" that is already built up pretty good and only needs a wee bit of tweaking to get it close to the 870P Max.

Remington 870 Security (Synthetic) (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_18inch_specs.asp)

Catch them on sale (which seems to be every month and a half or so) and it'll run you under $300 out the door. I picked one up at the beginning of this year while I was "in town" and the sale price was like $225 or so. Sales tax + DROS = cheap 12ga.

You can then pick up a SF fore-end light for about the same price, depending on what model you want. Looks like SF has two different 6v models for the 870 at $250 & $300. SureFire shotgun fore-end weaponlights : Remington 870 (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&sesent=00&carfnbr=124)

Gotta have the Wilson Combat/XS GhostRing sights? Check out Brownell's or another parts distributor. It looks like those will run you about $115, not counting how much it'll cost for installation. According to the Brownell's website, the front sight just epoxies over the existing bead and the rear needs one hole drilled and tapped. Should be a piece of cake for a gunsmith and fairly cheap, too. Wilson Combat Trak-Lock ghostring sight system (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12522&title=TRAK-LOCK?%20GHOST%20RING%20SIGHT%20SYSTEM)

By now you've pretty much got the same 870, for a lower price and minus the pistol-grip stock. If you've GOTTA have the SpeedFeed stock, looks like Brownell's also carries it, for $110. SpeedFeed pistol-grip stock (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12704&title=PISTOL+GRIP+SHOTGUN+STOCK)

So in theory you could build an 870 on your own that would be pretty much identical to the 870P Max. Now the big question is..... How much is it going to cost you to get an 870P Max here in CA?

I just took a look on Gunbroker and there's ONE 870P Max listed right now, but it's located in PA. The seller has a "Buy It Now" price set at $874.99 but there's no shipping price given. Figure $20 or so, I would guess?

Remington 870P Max (http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=55080794)

That looks like it'd be in the $900 price range, after you get it shipped out here and then run the DROS on it.

The Big5 shotty that you build up yourself? Less than that. And you could do everything over a period of time to spread the cost out a little instead of dropping all the $$$ in one big transaction. Might not hurt the pocketbook quite so bad to do that.

Which also means you've got some seed money for the SOCOM I account. :D


Totally agree with you on this one. My 870 is still in progress. I am just saving up for the Surefire but not on top of my list but I will one day.

Jicko
08-29-2006, 11:09 AM
RESEARCH MORE!!

There are quite some differences between the 870-big-5 line.... and the 870-POLICE line of 870s.

There had been a lot of debates between their qualities and such...

Just go research more....

insin
08-29-2006, 6:07 PM
There are quite some differences between the 870-big-5 line.... and the 870-POLICE line of 870s.

There had been a lot of debates between their qualities and such...

Just go research more....

Yep, I prefer to go with the police version.

JOEKILLA
08-29-2006, 6:48 PM
I believe the Police version has metal trigger assembly, better finish, ghost ring sights option....the rest is on this site.

http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/870.htm

Might want to check out www.shoutgunworld.com.

m1371
08-29-2006, 10:39 PM
RESEARCH MORE!!

There are quite some differences between the 870-big-5 line.... and the 870-POLICE line of 870s.

There had been a lot of debates between their qualities and such...

Just go research more....

Care to elaborate more?

The Big5-bought Remington I've got has over 2,000rds through it so far with zero issues.

And yes, it is enroute to being built up exactly as I described in my earlier post.

For a home-defense shotgun, I cannot see any added benefits in spending the extra $$$ on the police version 870 that Remington offers.

If you feel there is a significant reason NOT to look at the Big5 shotguns, please provide more info for us.

Maddog5150
08-30-2006, 3:05 AM
For home I would go 870. If you fire a SOCOM inside your home you will go deaf and in SHTF medical attention may not be readily available so you might not get your hearing back for a long while. (remembering the officers who only fired 2 rounds each from their ARs inside a house. One lost hearing for a several day or a few weeks, cant remember, the other needs hearing aids for the rest of his life)

m1371
08-30-2006, 4:53 AM
For home I would go 870. If you fire a SOCOM inside your home you will go deaf and in SHTF medical attention may not be readily available so you might not get your hearing back for a long while. (remembering the officers who only fired 2 rounds each from their ARs inside a house. One lost hearing for a several day or a few weeks, cant remember, the other needs hearing aids for the rest of his life)

Little bit of quick google-fu......

Gives me a link (http://www.lhh.org/noise/decibel.htm) that says a shotgun is 3dB louder than a rifle. :p

# 163 rifle
# 166 handgun
# 170 shotgun

Another site (http://www.healthyhearing.com/library/news_content.asp?news_id=624) says a .357Mag is louder than a 12ga shotty.

* .357 Magnum, 164 Decibels
* 12 Gauge Shotgun, 156 Decibels
* .22 Pistol, 153 Decibels
* Standing Next to a 747 Engine, 140 Decibels (The Pain Threshold)
* Operating a Jack Hammer, 130 Decibels
* Attending a Rock Concert, 120 Decibels

This site: http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml actually breaks it down pretty good comparing shotgun to centerfire rifles to handguns.

Table 1. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB
26" barrel 150.25dB
18 _" barrel 156.30dB
20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB
22" barrel 154.75dB
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB
26" barrel 156.10dB
18 _" barrel 161.50dB
Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 _" barrel 163.2dB
.375 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB
Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA
.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

So what does this all mean? :confused:

GUNS ARE LOUD!!!!! :rolleyes:

Kinda makes me think of that scene from "Snatch" where Boris 'The Blade' puts in his earplugs before he starts shooting everybody in the room. :D

Maddog5150
08-30-2006, 9:23 AM
HAHAHA that movie was funny. As for what I put earlier, Im going on what my firearms instructor told me. He's a seasoned veteran who trains countless people. Also works for surefire as the top force on force instructor. Honestly, not being a smart ******, I listen to experience before the net. You never know who is typing behind the keyboard and what experience they really have or type of testing. Like me for instance. Im really maddog but evil overlord Xenu searching for Tom Cruise to finally take down his little religeon and overload them with body thetens!! mwahahahahahahahaaa
Sorry. Maddog+lack of sleep= really random.

m1371
08-30-2006, 10:26 AM
HAHAHA that movie was funny. As for what I put earlier, Im going on what my firearms instructor told me. He's a seasoned veteran who trains countless people. Also works for surefire as the top force on force instructor. Honestly, not being a smart ******, I listen to experience before the net. You never know who is typing behind the keyboard and what experience they really have or type of testing. Like me for instance. Im really maddog but evil overlord Xenu searching for Tom Cruise to finally take down his little religeon and overload them with body thetens!! mwahahahahahahahaaa
Sorry. Maddog+lack of sleep= really random.

FTA right? If so, then I know who you're talking about.

NoobShooter
08-30-2006, 10:57 PM
Seems like earplugs or foam would be useful huh?

insin
08-31-2006, 3:01 PM
I have a hard time imagining any scenario that you wouldn't already have covered with your 5.56mm.

You're probobly right. There would be few reasons that come to mind where I would ditch
the rifle for a shottie. However, the gun collection must grow! Im just trying to justify that fact. Hahaha...

RobT2K
08-31-2006, 10:44 PM
If you're still considering the shotgun, I saw this one on the FAL files for $500 +s/h
Unfired 870 HD Express Magnum w/Surefire forearm (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178208)

No relation to the seller, just remembered you were looking for something like this.

insin
08-31-2006, 11:17 PM
If you're still considering the shotgun, I saw this one on the FAL files for $500 +s/h


Thank you, but I am set on a 870P model.