PDA

View Full Version : Do they always have to take it to the max? politicians jeezuz


Jake71
01-28-2011, 7:25 AM
Watched the news last night, KTLA i think.. and some guy got on and said how the ban (the handgun ammunition ban being bought mailorder) was shot down. He mentioned the definition of handgun and rifle ammunition... but then went on to show a .223 green tip round..

They went on about how these are "cop killer" bullets and shouldnt be allowed and the bill that was just shot down about the importation of handgun ammunition and how it's going to open the door for these "cop killers" to make it into California.

Seriously? Are we still calling round "cop killers"... are we still talking about handgun ammunition and showing rifle rounds as examples????

The chief or sherrrif said, we havnt been able to stem the tide of handguns so we will go after the ammunition to feed them.

What a crock of sheeeet...

Bhobbs
01-28-2011, 7:44 AM
Yeah I saw that too. They also were talking about how hollowpoints are dangerous because they easily penetrate body armor.

Jack L
01-28-2011, 8:00 AM
They use the term Cop Killer to get the ignorant all fired up. Lets face it, many hunting rifles will go thru a vest like a hot knife thru butter. Where will the ban stop if some politician hires a firm to shoot thru vests to see what they should ban? Make no mistake. If one of these politicians gets a full victory, they will not stop but keep going until we all have rim fire ammo only, if that.

I keep saying Mexico is a prime example of banning guns. When I go down there I cannot trust the police or military and certainly not criminals. They have the guns and are corrupt because they have the power with them. The citizens are sheep waiting for the slaughter at any given day or night. And guess what? The politicians and polices are now the victims too. They banned the guns and it backfired and they now lay in the streets all shot up. Go figure.

Jack L
01-28-2011, 8:01 AM
Yeah I saw that too. They also were talking about how hollowpoints are dangerous because they easily penetrate body armor.

They also are the standard for home defence.

jonyg
01-28-2011, 8:07 AM
Aren't there those "independent" fact checker organizations? Sheesh they jump all over the most minute slips during campaigns but can't bother to point out something so blatant?

Good to know they're on top of their job.

J.D.Allen
01-28-2011, 8:10 AM
They also are the standard for home defence.

Umm, dude, hollow points do not easily penetrate body armor. In fact they are kind of the opposite of what is needed to penetrate it, because it's better to have a pointed tip to go through.

sfoan
01-28-2011, 8:11 AM
That guy was DeLeon I believe, the author of AB962. Saw something similar to it on Fox 11, and the anchor asked him if this conflicts with the 2nd Amendment, DeLeon said that the 2nd Amendment only allows the right to bear arms, not the right to bear bullets. Or something to that effect.

J.D.Allen
01-28-2011, 8:17 AM
That guy was DeLeon I believe, the author of AB962. Saw something similar to it on Fox 11, and the anchor asked him if this conflicts with the 2nd Amendment, DeLeon said that the 2nd Amendment only allows the right to bear arms, not the right to bear bullets. Or something to that effect.

:rofl2: Someone hasn't read Heller. It says the 2A guarantees the right to FUNCTIONAL firearms. If I don't have ammo I suppose my gun can function...I can always throw it at the BG. :rofl2:

GettoPhilosopher
01-28-2011, 8:48 AM
Didn't BATFE specifically rule that M855 *isn't* AP?

Ed_in_Sac
01-28-2011, 9:03 AM
if someone has a broadcast link, would love to watch it!

Bhobbs
01-28-2011, 9:06 AM
if someone has a broadcast link, would love to watch it!

I forgot which station it was but if someone can post the clip I would love to write them a strongly worded letter about their ignorance of the law and firearms.

Stonewalker
01-28-2011, 9:13 AM
Wow there are like 13 things wrong with what DeLeon said just in this thread.
-Hollow Points penetrate body armor? That must be why Federal Air Marshals use them, to penetrate more.
-"Bear arms, not bear bullets" - wow. The SCOTUS went out of their way in Heller to say that the 2nd amendment protects functioning arms. Obviously ammo is included in that.

Bhobbs
01-28-2011, 9:42 AM
Wow there are like 13 things wrong with what DeLeon said just in this thread.
-Hollow Points penetrate body armor? That must be why Federal Air Marshals use them, to penetrate more.
-"Bear arms, not bear bullets" - wow. The SCOTUS went out of their way in Heller to say that the 2nd amendment protects functioning arms. Obviously ammo is included in that.

Well when you are not held accountable for your words and actions you can do and say anything.

PhantomII
01-28-2011, 9:57 AM
Gun control (aka gun prohibition) is a strictly emotional issue. With a dearth of facts at their disposal, the only argument they can use is an appeal to the emotions and fears of the uninformed.

And since their target audience is uninformed, a rational argument would not be as effective as an emotional one. Ergo the higher the emotional appeal and fear factor, the greater their chance of success.

Truth has no place in an anti's arsenal (as it were), just make firearms appear as evil, dangerous and antisocial as possible so as to frighten the people into wanting to get rid of them.

It's not the criminal they need fear, it's the shoulder thing that goes up.

Dr Rockso
01-28-2011, 10:28 AM
Most news stations these days post their segments online for a day or two after they air. I look on KTLA's website and found a story about DeLeon's 'cop killer' ban, but there wasn't anything about hollow points or showing green tip 5.56.

When something supremely outrageous comes out of the mouth of LE brass or politicians we really do need to locate and capture those clips for later use, to make it clear who is willing to lie in the pursuit of their own agenda.

If anyone can find the clips mentioned in this thread please post links.

The segment I was able to find was titled 'KTLA: Controversy Over Ban On "Cop Killer" Bullets -- Don Guevara reports'
Located at the following links:
http://www.facebook.com/ktla5/posts/179288125440249
http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/1f9ac7fb-cea4-49c0-9920-06b2bb7f99b7/News/KTLA-Controversy-Over-Ban-On-Cop-Killer-Bullets-Don-Guevara-reports

Jack L
01-28-2011, 10:46 AM
Umm, dude, hollow points do not easily penetrate body armor. In fact they are kind of the opposite of what is needed to penetrate it, because it's better to have a pointed tip to go through.


Hollow points do go thru vest if it's a large caliber. If I have my facts straight, Geneva Convention banned hollow point and made the military use ball ammo. I'd hate to take even a .223 hollow point to the chest wearing only standard LE issue armor. I would not want to be a human test dummy and wear standard LE issue armor and take a point blank .357 Sig hollow point in the chest either just to see if it would go thru, or not.

ke6guj
01-28-2011, 10:48 AM
Didn't BATFE specifically rule that M855 *isn't* AP?

Yes, M855/SS109 green-tip was ruled to not be pistol AP by the feds.

Dr Rockso
01-28-2011, 10:51 AM
Hollow points do go thru vest if it's a large caliber. If I have my facts straight, Geneva Convention banned hollow point and made the military use ball ammo. I'd hate to take even a .223 hollow point to the chest wearing only standard cop LE issue armor.

It was the Hague Convention of 1899 that restricted "Bullets Which Expand or Flatten Easily in the Human Body".

Of course a 5.56 or 7.62 hollow point will zip right through a soft vest, but any ammunition of those calibers will. In a given caliber the hollow point bullet design will trade penetration for expansion.

J.D.Allen
01-28-2011, 11:57 AM
Hollow points do go thru vest if it's a large caliber. If I have my facts straight, Geneva Convention banned hollow point and made the military use ball ammo. I'd hate to take even a .223 hollow point to the chest wearing only standard LE issue armor. I would not want to be a human test dummy and wear standard LE issue armor and take a point blank .357 Sig hollow point in the chest either just to see if it would go thru, or not.

I didn't say that they would never go through. My point was that that guy was trying to say JHP's were bad because of how EASILY they go through body armor. When you post "they also..." you seem to be agreeing with his statement. My point was simply that JHP's do not easily penetrate vests because they have a wide mouthed tip, which is precisely the opposite of what is desirable for a bullet to penetrate body armor.

You cannot compare the ability of low velocity rounds like the 9MM, .40 cal., or .45 ACP JHP's to penetrate body armor with the ability of high velocity rounds like .223 and 7.62x39. The hollow point design of those rounds is different and they are fired at velocities that are more than double those of the others in most cases. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Jake71
01-28-2011, 2:21 PM
Politicians are the biggest spreaders of false information.

Mis-leading information
spreading fear and panic
blowing things way out of proportion
just plain not knowing what the hell they are talking about.

Like that one thread with the video of a congress woman saying we needed to ban barrel shrouds... she didn't even know what it was and avoided answering the question. Barrel shroud if she's reading this thread.. = me not burning my hand on the barrel.

simply amazing they get away with this kind of crap.

sholling
01-28-2011, 2:28 PM
Watched the news last night, KTLA i think.. and some guy got on and said how the ban (the handgun ammunition ban being bought mailorder) was shot down. He mentioned the definition of handgun and rifle ammunition... but then went on to show a .223 green tip round..
Can we get a ban on Freedom Killer Politicians? Make it a felony to be a freedom killer politician within the borders of the state? :p

I think that's the response we need to make. Every time they say "ban" we say "ban freedom killer politicians". ;)

SanPedroShooter
01-28-2011, 2:42 PM
I commented on the facebook link, i couldnt help myself. Especially after the lead in about the cop that was saved by his vest turns out to have shot himself....

Sky_DiveR
01-28-2011, 3:07 PM
....If I have my facts straight, Geneva Convention banned hollow point and made the military use ball ammo....

...It was the Hague Convention of 1899 that restricted "Bullets Which Expand or Flatten Easily in the Human Body"....

And that only applies during times of war....

Funny how many people still get this wrong.

Dr Rockso
01-28-2011, 3:09 PM
I commented on the facebook link, i couldnt help myself. Especially after the lead in about the cop that was saved by his vest turns out to have shot himself....

Ironically, it was probably with whatever hollow points are issued by that dept.

Dr Rockso
01-28-2011, 3:14 PM
Incidentally found this video with DeLeon spewing his BS about "teflon-steel bullets".

http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/news/local/cop-killer-bullet-ban-in-jeopardy-20110127

If anybody can find the vids referenced earlier in the thread that'd be awesome, I'd love to save a copy of a video of some Sheriff or Police Chief outright lying about hollow point ammunition.

Edit:
Found the one referenced in the OP with the M855 round. No mention of HPs though.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=7924554