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View Full Version : Pre-ban owned AR 20 rd mags in SU-16 OK?


c good
08-27-2006, 7:30 AM
delete

rssslvr
08-27-2006, 7:41 AM
Yep if you owned them before the ban use them as much as you like in your su-16

Dr.Doom
08-27-2006, 9:55 AM
No you can't use them in your su-16 the pre-ban mags can only be used with the original firearm it was designed for they will fix and function but it is not "leagal" at least in California.

Ryan HBC
08-27-2006, 10:02 AM
No you can't use them in your su-16 the pre-ban mags can only be used with the original firearm it was designed for they will fix and function but it is not "leagal" at least in California.

Incorrect.

brassburns
08-27-2006, 10:02 AM
No you can't use them in your su-16 the pre-ban mags can only be used with the original firearm it was designed for they will fix and function but it is not "leagal" at least in California.

A friend of mine actually gave me a handfull of pre-ban 20 round Colt mags and I didn't have an AR at the time. This was before the AW ban. I now have an SU-16 which uses the same mags.

I'd like to see the statute that describes how a pre-ban mag is to be used. I don't think it does.

Randy

Jicko
08-27-2006, 10:03 AM
No you can't use them in your su-16 the pre-ban mags can only be used with the original firearm it was designed for they will fix and function but it is not "leagal" at least in California.

What are you talking about!? "Leagal"?

More than 10 rounds capacity magazines are LEGAL to continue to own and use IF you own them before 2000.

If you don't think so, please quote "CA Penal Code" or CCR.

Dr.Doom
08-27-2006, 10:06 AM
Because the 20 rd mag is not originally part of the su-16 when bought as soon as you attach the mag it is a modification that makes it illeagal.

Jicko
08-27-2006, 10:14 AM
Because the 20 rd mag is not originally part of the su-16 when bought as soon as you attach the mag it is a modification that makes it illeagal.

Quote some "CA Penal Code" or "CA Code of Regulations"...

I have many Glocks, I have many G17's hi-cap magazines..... but I use them on my G34, G19, etc... there is basically no "laws" disallowing usage of certain magazines in certain firearms, as long as the magazine itself is not "modified"

PLEASE DO NOT distribute incorrect info... (what you are saying has no basis, by the way.... unless you define "illeagal" as "AR mag in su-16")

Admins: please delete this thread, the last thing we want on this board is for people to distribute incorrect info without basis.

Charliegone
08-27-2006, 10:27 AM
Ughhh yes you can use those mags in your su-16...I believe you might be refering if they have been MODIFIED for different use....but since the su-16 uses regular ar mags its OK. So go ahead and use them. Its completely legal.

Dr.Doom
08-27-2006, 11:05 AM
look it up if I'm wrong than I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time.I hope I am wrong then I'm off to get that su-16

C.G.
08-27-2006, 11:18 AM
look it up if I'm wrong than I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time.I hope I am wrong then I'm off to get that su-16

Go get an SU-16.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-27-2006, 11:21 AM
look it up...

There's no way to "look up" a law that doesn't exist.

blkA4alb
08-27-2006, 11:26 AM
look it up if I'm wrong than I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time.I hope I am wrong then I'm off to get that su-16
Here, I even took the time to look it up for you. Now you can prove yourself wrong :rolleyes: .

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(b) The Legislature finds a significant public purpose in exempting pistols that are designed expressly for use in Olympic target shooting events. Therefore, those pistols that are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the national governing body for international shooting competition in the United States, and that are used for Olympic target shooting purposes at the time the act adding this subdivision is enacted, and that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section are exempt, as provided in subdivision (c).
(3) The Department of Justice shall create a program that is consistent with the purposes stated in subdivision (b) to exempt new models of competitive pistols that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section from being classified as an assault weapon. The exempt competitive pistols may be based on recommendations by USA Shooting consistent with the regulations contained in the USA Shooting Official Rules or may be based on the recommendation or rules of any other organization that the department deems relevant.
(d) The following definitions shall apply under this section:
(1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device.
(2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.
(e) This section shall become operative January 1, 2000.

Hopi
08-27-2006, 11:55 AM
There's no way to "look up" a law that doesn't exist.


ROTFLMFAO!!!!

dhl
08-27-2006, 1:19 PM
I'd been told years ago by employees of a shooting range that just after the Hi-cap ban I couldn't buy a newly manufactured pistol of an existing model and use my old Hi-cap magazines in it because, "that' pistol wasn't designed to be used with 'those' magazines". They were real jerks about it too. Same pistol as before, no changes in anything on it or to it, just that it was made after the hi-cap ban took effect and therefore it wasn't designed to be used with hi-caps in the state of California.

I can't find anything on the DOJ site that mentions this prohibition.

If anyone finds this information please let us all know.

Thank you.

Ryan HBC
08-27-2006, 1:19 PM
Before the ban, I stocked up on USGI 30 rounders, and didn't even own an AR15. Basically, you are saying that I am not allowed to use them in any firearm? I just own aluminum paper weights? Come on now.

grammaton76
08-27-2006, 3:55 PM
I'd been told years ago by employees of a shooting range that just after the Hi-cap ban I couldn't buy a newly manufactured pistol of an existing model and use my old Hi-cap magazines in it because, "that' pistol wasn't designed to be used with 'those' magazines". They were real jerks about it too.

The part in bold is the entirety of your problem.

If I had a dollar for every time I've cited California penal code and shown it to range workers and gun shop owners ("Gee, that's NOT illegal?!?" or "Whoa, that's a felony?"), I would be rich. Now, a lot of those guys STILL believe whatever crap they've been fed, even if it isn't in the law, because "a cop told them". Police, while they do a great job, frequently are just as confused about the law as range guys and gun store owners.

And, Dr.Doom, get that SU-16 now and start trying to impress Sue Storm, since it's legal. ;)

Jicko
08-28-2006, 12:09 AM
look it up if I'm wrong than I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time.I hope I am wrong then I'm off to get that su-16

YOU ARE WRONG. (period)

rorschach
08-28-2006, 4:28 PM
Before the ban, I stocked up on USGI 30 rounders, and didn't even own an AR15. Basically, you are saying that I am not allowed to use them in any firearm? I just own aluminum paper weights? Come on now.

+1

I have a bunch of 20 and a few 30 round AR mags I got before the 94 ban, and a bunch of other mags I bought in '98-2000, some for firearms I still do not own. Until recently I didnt even own an HK or my own AR, both of which I had purchased magazines for.

I'm still bummed that I was paying upwards on 20 bucks for HK mags in 2000, now I see vendors in free states selling them for as low as $1.50 each.

M1A_KICHI
08-28-2006, 4:45 PM
+1

I'm still bummed that I was paying upwards on 20 bucks for HK mags in 2000, now I see vendors in free states selling them for as low as $1.50 each.

I know what you mean on this. I paid a pretty penny for mine too.


Anyways to the original question...If YOU had them before the ban it is OK to use and have them...PERIOD. :cool:

ohsmily
08-28-2006, 4:47 PM
No you can't use them in your su-16 the pre-ban mags can only be used with the original firearm it was designed for they will fix and function but it is not "leagal" at least in California.

You made me laugh...are you a member of the circus by chance? Are you a clown, perhaps?

mailman
08-28-2006, 4:50 PM
No you can't use them in your su-16 the pre-ban mags can only be used with the original firearm it was designed for they will fix and function but it is not "leagal" at least in California.


U should destroy those mags they are illeagal

AF_INT1N0
08-28-2006, 4:56 PM
As far as I know the mags are legal as long as you had them pre-ban.. So... have fun and shoot away!!

Boomer1961
08-28-2006, 5:30 PM
It don't mean a darn thing what the internet lawyers at this forum say!

Though I do wish the name calling would cease......and we kept this an intelligent discussion among adults instead of a child's playground argument.


All that really matters is what the man thinks!

.....be it the man at the range or the man in uniform with that glock on his hip.

If they believe it is illegal they will harass you, take your toy away, ban you, arrest you. They never admit they are wrong, only ignore you and hope you go away if they were wrong. They will even find something else to get you with just to get back at you for proving them wrong. That has been my personal experience in trying to get my guns back from a similar experience where a local sherrif was not aware that target shooting in a National Forrest was legal......and it took over a year get them back, a trip to court, a few trips to the judge, and so on and so on.

Unfortunatley I would suggest respectful and intelligent discussion with the person who is in error but unfortunately you won't learn how to do this by reading the threads at this forum. If anything you are being taught a great way to piss someone off by saying they need a proctologist because they think differently than you and could turn a ticket/confiscation into a trip to jail.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!

Paul1960
08-28-2006, 6:19 PM
No you can't use them in your su-16 the pre-ban mags can only be used with the original firearm it was designed for they will fix and function but it is not "leagal" at least in California.

Wrong.

Effective January 1, 2000, SB 23 generally prohibits, the manufacture, import, sale, giving or lending of large capacity magazines (defined as any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but does not include .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding devices).

That's all.

PS:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/paul1960/Weapons/TempestuousSeaofLiberty.jpg

lazyman
08-31-2006, 10:13 PM
It don't mean a darn thing what the internet lawyers at this forum say!

Though I do wish the name calling would cease......and we kept this an intelligent discussion among adults instead of a child's playground argument.


All that really matters is what the man thinks!

.....be it the man at the range or the man in uniform with that glock on his hip.

If they believe it is illegal they will harass you, take your toy away, ban you, arrest you. They never admit they are wrong, only ignore you and hope you go away if they were wrong. They will even find something else to get you with just to get back at you for proving them wrong. That has been my personal experience in trying to get my guns back from a similar experience where a local sherrif was not aware that target shooting in a National Forrest was legal......and it took over a year get them back, a trip to court, a few trips to the judge, and so on and so on.

Unfortunatley I would suggest respectful and intelligent discussion with the person who is in error but unfortunately you won't learn how to do this by reading the threads at this forum. If anything you are being taught a great way to piss someone off by saying they need a proctologist because they think differently than you and could turn a ticket/confiscation into a trip to jail.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!

haha so true, I got sweated with my registeredbushy because I look really young. it's happened

xenophobe
08-31-2006, 10:56 PM
Wow.. some of you guys are really mean....

... and really funny too! lmao

Gunfighter01
09-01-2006, 8:44 PM
Just a note here,,,,,, In all actuallity, high capacity magazines are not controlled at all in Calilf, only the manufacture, importation, giving, lending, or selling of them are. There are no restrictions on rebuilding, or repairing of high capacity magazines also, be it that you do not manufacture an entirely new magazine. And according to DOJ one can repair his legally owned preban with a leo restricted magazine body if he so chooses. Of course there might be a battle to fight in doing this, but its perfectly legal, because any high capacity magazine body is perfectly legal to use as a replacement for a worn or damaged legal preban high cap.

bikertrash2006
09-01-2006, 8:56 PM
New guy here, interesting question for you.

How can anyone tell whether or not I purchased my mags before the ban or after the ban?

Gunfighter01
09-01-2006, 9:11 PM
For some AR mags, they actually have dates on them, i have a few with preban dates on them. Pistol mags im not sure about, except that Sigs for instance made some changes in the manufacturing process that identifies that they were manufactured after the ban. Also, im not entirely sure about this, but the 40 s&w cartridge could have been made after the ban was instilled, so having 40 cal highcaps might not be a good idea, but again, i am not sure of this. Most replacement mag bodies, say AR15 for instance will not have a manufacture date on them, but then again, rebuilding high caps is perfectly legal as long as you dont manufacture an entirely new magazine. And even if you do use a high cap magazine body with a post 2000 date on it, its perfectly legal to use a replacement body for a legally owned preban magazine repair.

NeoWeird
09-01-2006, 9:16 PM
New guy here, interesting question for you.

How can anyone tell whether or not I purchased my mags before the ban or after the ban?


They can't, unless you have mags manufactured AFTER the ban.

I believe the confussing part you guys are overlooking is that it is against the law (read: illegal) to MODIFY a high capacity magazine to function in another firearm when said modification doesn't allow it to be used in it's original firearm.

For example, you own a stack of Uzi 30 rounders that you had since 1980. You are totally legal, and can use them at will.

Now you have an AR (registered of course) and you put a pistol upper on that AR, then weld plates to the Uzi mags so you can use them. You have now manufactured NEW (regardless of their original age) high capacity magazines and you broke the law because you can't put the mag in an Uzi with the welded plates on it.

Now say you purchased a drop in block that holds Uzi mags in your AR. Since the mags are not modified, you can use them in the AR and everything is fine and you didn't break the law at all (brings up the question of a su-16 wth a barrel swap and a pistol caliber block installed to use our old grease gun, sten, uzi, etc mags).

Now, the last scenario is a combination of both. Say you purchased a block that holds the magazine in place in the AR magwell, however you have the mill a hole in the magazine for the AR mag catch, which is obviously different from the Uzi mag catch. You are STILL legal, because even with that hole, you can still insert the magazine into an Uzi and fire away with it.

To sum it up: If you can use the magazine in it's original firearm, you can modifiy and use them to your hearts content. Make skeleton magazines for all they care, as long as they can still be used in the original firearm, you are ok.

rorschach
09-01-2006, 11:40 PM
For some AR mags, they actually have dates on them, i have a few with preban dates on them. Pistol mags im not sure about, except that Sigs for instance made some changes in the manufacturing process that identifies that they were manufactured after the ban. Also, im not entirely sure about this, but the 40 s&w cartridge could have been made after the ban was instilled, so having 40 cal highcaps might not be a good idea, but again, i am not sure of this. Most replacement mag bodies, say AR15 for instance will not have a manufacture date on them, but then again, rebuilding high caps is perfectly legal as long as you dont manufacture an entirely new magazine. And even if you do use a high cap magazine body with a post 2000 date on it, its perfectly legal to use a replacement body for a legally owned preban magazine repair.

+1 I have bought a couple of post 2000 (actually post 2004) AR-15 replacement tubes from C Products and they are undated. Technically, in Kalifornia you could even use the 1994-2004 dated "RESTRICTED L.E./MILITARY" tubes as replacements for pre-2000 mags, but I personally think that would be pushing the envelope. Try explaining that one to the gun law ignorant officer or ranger. I would like to have one maybe just for a collectors item, but I dont think I would take it out to the range, or anywhere for that matter.

.40 S&W debuted January 17, 1990 alongside the Smith 4006 pistol, 4 years before the fed ban, 10 years before the Kali ban. Glock actually had the G22 and G23 on dealers shelves before S&W's offering. I'm not entirely sure when SIG introduced their .40 caliber versions of the P226 and P229.

FN Five-seveN 20 rounders are out of the question though! No way to prove you had that before the ban!!

NeoWeird
09-01-2006, 11:44 PM
+1 I have bought a couple of post 2000 (actually post 2004) AR-15 replacement tubes from C Products and they are undated. Technically, in Kalifornia you could even use the 1994-2004 dated "RESTRICTED L.E./MILITARY" tubes as replacements for pre-2000 mags, but I personally think that would be pushing the envelope. Try explaining that one to the gun law ignorant officer or ranger. I would like to have one maybe just for a collectors item, but I dont think I would take it out to the range, or anywhere for that matter.

.40 S&W debuted January 17, 1990 alongside the Smith 4006 pistol, 4 years before the fed ban, 10 years before the Kali ban. Glock actually had the G22 and G23 on dealers shelves before S&W's offering. I'm not entirely sure when SIG introduced their .40 caliber versions of the P226 and P229.

FN Five-seveN 20 rounders are out of the question though! No way to prove you had that before the ban!!

Excellent information my friend.

69Mach1
09-01-2006, 11:50 PM
. Also, im not entirely sure about this, but the 40 s&w cartridge could have been made after the ban was instilled, so having 40 cal highcaps might not be a good idea, but again, i am not sure of this.

The .40 was developed long before the ban. I have preban 11 round S&W .40 cal magazines and used to own 11 round .40 cal Beretta mags. My cousin owns preban 15 round .40 cal Glock mags.

grammaton76
09-02-2006, 1:15 AM
Good information, folks, but a little close to the line of a break-the-law how-to.

Ask me how I know... actually, don't. :)

I would advise discussing dates and specifics of what mags are provable/unprovable, on another forum. It's not exactly welcome on Calguns.