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View Full Version : NY Judge: Airguns Not Protected By Heller


sholling
01-27-2011, 10:14 AM
A New York judge has ruled that air guns are not protected under Heller because they are not commonly kept for self defense nor are they effective for that purpose.

http://volokh.com/2011/01/27/air-guns-not-arms-for-second-amendment-purposes

Merle
01-27-2011, 10:19 AM
That's stupid as it is an incredibly slippery slope.

You temporarily ban an item (e.g. machine gun, suppressor) and then use an argument that it's not in common use therefore not protected. Increase the depth and scope of the ban (e.g. no standard cap magazines) and then you can claim no protection for that item and a perma ban ensues.

When there is no allowance for smokeless powder for self defense, you'll already have eliminated compressed air.

A paint ball gun can be used as a decent weapon, depending on how close you are to the target and what it is loaded with (e.g. pepper ball, frozen paint balls)

PatriotnMore
01-27-2011, 10:23 AM
Another perfect example of how issues such as the 2A become twisted. It never ends, the political battles waged in the name of Constitutional right, against those within the three branches of government sworn to uphold and protect it, it is sad and disconcerting.

Dr Rockso
01-27-2011, 10:27 AM
While they might not be effective for self defense in and of themselves, they do offer an inexpensive method of training with arms (cue arguments made by Gura in Ezell, despite how well those arguments worked in Chicago). I'm surprised those arguments weren't made by the defendant.

wash
01-27-2011, 10:31 AM
I wish they would discuss who is behind the case and if they are willing to go through apeals.

sholling
01-27-2011, 10:35 AM
While they might not be effective for self defense in and of themselves, they do offer an inexpensive method of training with arms (cue arguments made by Gura in Ezell, despite how well those arguments worked in Chicago). I'm surprised those arguments weren't made by the defendant.
It doesn't look like the defendant had competent (2nd Amendment law expertise) council. Training could have been raised and I think hunting. I think self defense could also have been presented more effectively.

Steyrlp10
01-27-2011, 11:17 AM
Guess they're not aware of the 5-shot models. Just more red tape...

kcbrown
01-27-2011, 11:45 AM
See, this is why "shall not be infringed" means shall not be infringed. Once you decide it means something else, the "right" is no longer a right and you are done -- you've lost at that point, and the only thing you can do from then on is forever engage in holding actions that result in the "right" being increasingly eroded, until you're left with nothing at all.

Bhobbs
01-27-2011, 11:48 AM
We have to fight these stupid classifications like "sporting purpose" or "self defense".

yellowfin
01-27-2011, 12:06 PM
A NY judge... basically like a MS judge in the 30's to 60's. What gets me is how they can possibly claim to be unbiased and objective.

CAL.BAR
01-27-2011, 12:23 PM
They are also not defined as "firearms" so they wouldn't be in the same class. "We" use this distinction to shoot them in the city limits all the time to get around the "negligent discharge of a firearm" issue or other laws that ban "firearms" discharge in the city. So it stands to reason that they are not considered firearms and no more come under 2A than would nerf guns, paintball guns etc.

Dr Rockso
01-27-2011, 12:24 PM
They are also not defined as "firearms" so they wouldn't be in the same class. "We" use this distinction to shoot them in the city limits all the time to get around the "negligent discharge of a firearm" issue or other laws that ban "firearms" discharge in the city. So it stands to reason that they are not considered firearms and no more come under 2A than would nerf guns, paintball guns etc.

The 2a doesn't say 'firearms'.

Turo
01-27-2011, 12:28 PM
The 2a doesn't say 'firearms'.

Exactly. It says "Arms." And I guarantee you that if an air gun was all I had to protect myself from a threat, I'd shoot it until I ran out of ammo or the threat was gone.

Air guns are most definitely arms and anyone that says otherwise is an idiot.

sbrady@Michel&Associates
01-27-2011, 12:40 PM
Apparently these critters didn't get the message that air guns are not effective for self-defense.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/steph_bison.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/&usg=__sy5UL5RN5-3hC-yoKuaXaaW0GR0=&h=450&w=600&sz=174&hl=en&start=7&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=_hb6XjQz4wDSeM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhunting%2Bwith%2Bair%2Bguns%26um%3D1% 26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Divns&ei=nuVBTeWHM4v2swPJiMmdCg

wildhawker
01-27-2011, 12:45 PM
Remember also that Maloney is working its way back thru CA2. If sticks and rope are protected arms, so likely then are air guns.

gunsmith
01-27-2011, 1:02 PM
A poor lawsuit does more damage then a expensive handgun

The Sauce
01-27-2011, 1:07 PM
TIME TO START BUYING UP AIRGUNS!

Wherryj
01-27-2011, 1:48 PM
Apparently these critters didn't get the message that air guns are not effective for self-defense.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/steph_bison.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/&usg=__sy5UL5RN5-3hC-yoKuaXaaW0GR0=&h=450&w=600&sz=174&hl=en&start=7&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=_hb6XjQz4wDSeM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhunting%2Bwith%2Bair%2Bguns%26um%3D1% 26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Divns&ei=nuVBTeWHM4v2swPJiMmdCg

Holy Toledo! Those guys went after, and killed, a bear with an airgun? That takes a lot of guts, and a pretty amazing airgun!

N6ATF
01-27-2011, 2:00 PM
Do you have to carry the compressor on your back? LOL

ALSystems
01-27-2011, 2:08 PM
They are also not defined as "firearms" so they wouldn't be in the same class. "We" use this distinction to shoot them in the city limits all the time to get around the "negligent discharge of a firearm" issue or other laws that ban "firearms" discharge in the city. So it stands to reason that they are not considered firearms and no more come under 2A than would nerf guns, paintball guns etc.
The definition of a "firearm" seems to vary depending on the city code.
Besides real guns, some cities add rubber band guns, nerf guns and various other toy guns to their definition of firearm.

See here in this previous thread:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=253749

xenophobe
01-27-2011, 2:34 PM
Airguns are arms. Airsoft are toys. Trying to push RKBA ideals on airsoft in the courts is a bad idea.

Funtimes
01-27-2011, 2:37 PM
The navy defines firearms that:

Any device that expels a projectile via a explosive or compressed means that can maim, harm, injure or kill.