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Stonewalker
01-26-2011, 4:48 PM
Terry Gross is going to be talking to Robert Spitzer tomorrow on Fresh Air. Finger's crossed for a good show. I don't know much about Spitzer but he's definitly an anti -

(from wikipedia)
Spitzer argues against the individualist interpretation of the Second Amendment, and instead holds with the court view that "the Second Amendment pertains only to citizen service in a government-organized and regulated militia

He is the author of The Politics of Gun Control (ISBN 978-0-87289-417-4; fourth ed., 2008), a book which analyzes the political antecedents and consequences of the controversial issue of gun control. The book examines the history of gun control, the Second Amendment, criminological consequences of guns, the role of interest groups, public opinion, Congress, Presidency, the courts, and the major legislative acts pertaining to gun control, including the Gun Control Act of 1968, the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986, the Brady Act of 1993, the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, and the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act of 2005.

Hopefully he is intellectually honest and not just a gun hater. I'm not expecting too much from this show though. She needs to get Gary Gleck or Don Kilmer on that show damnit! Anyways the show will be posted here sometime around mid-day tomorrow. (http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/) Try to listen and comment.

ADH
01-26-2011, 4:56 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath for intellectual honesty about anything 2A related on NPR.

The quote you have highlighted says it all

Spitzer argues against the individualist interpretation of the Second Amendment, and instead holds with the court view that "the Second Amendment pertains only to citizen service in a government-organized and regulated militia

This is BS. The Heller decision clearly states the "Militia" language neither expands nor limits the operative clause acknowledging the "right of the people". Whether Mr. Spitzer likes it or not, that reading is THE LAW OF THE LAND.

BOFH
01-26-2011, 7:22 PM
Expect lots of talk about "sensible" restrictions.

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
01-26-2011, 7:55 PM
http://www.nrastore.com/nra/Product.aspx?productid=PB%2001871

Here's the NRA version of history. For $14.95 it's a good "coffee table book" to put next to your pile of stripper clips.


Anyway, it's interesting.

NRA: An American Legend

Description By Jeffrey L. Rodengen. Follow your NRA on a journey from its humble beginnings 134 years ago to the forefront of American politics and its leadership role in teaching responsible gun ownership in today's modern society. This richly illustrated coffee-table volume guides you through NRA's fascinating history. From its formation by a small group of Army officers just after the Civil War, to the most influential and effective protector of our Second Amendment freedoms. NRA:An American Legend is the official account told through over 300 pages with hundreds of photos, many previously unpublished, that give you a superb view of the people and events that made the NRA what it is today.

santacruzstefan
01-26-2011, 8:14 PM
Too bad there isn't a way to listen live and call in, but thats not the format of her show.

Dreaded Claymore
01-26-2011, 10:18 PM
NRA? Pffft. More like, Gun Control: The History of the Black Panthers. Or something.

The NRA's a huge organization with millions of members, but they're not the entire pro-2nd-Amendment segment of our country, like the mainstream media says they are. They've had an impact, but it hasn't been ultra-huge. I wish other groups would get mention. *cough* Calguns *cough*

Jack L
01-27-2011, 5:05 AM
Never should have a serious program like this without two sides of the discussion. Otherwise it's more propaganda.

Don29palms
01-27-2011, 5:17 AM
Noone still has ever been able to show me wher it says in the 2A "with reasonable restrictions".

Werewolf1021
01-27-2011, 5:35 AM
Seriously? Robert Spitzer? Might as well ask William Randolf Hearst what his views on hemp and pot were.....

Expect it to be one sided, with Spitzer lambasting the NRA with no supporting evidence, just like his book.

johnny_22
01-27-2011, 8:09 AM
If you want to listen early, KALW has it on right now.

www.kalw.org

Ed_in_Sac
01-27-2011, 8:34 AM
It is 9:30 am and have been listening to "Fresh Air" on Sacramento NPR station 90.9.

Robert Spitzer author of "The Politics of Gun Control" is speaking against 2a being applied to all citizens. He is criticlal of the supreme court and the Heller decision. Is also critical of the NRA being a pac.

Listen in to the last half hour if you can....just have a vomit bucket close

BoxesOfLiberty
01-27-2011, 8:37 AM
You can listen live online here:

NPR Fresh Air (http://radiotime.com/program/p_17/Fresh_Air_(NPR).aspx)

Dave A
01-27-2011, 8:53 AM
Why would you listen to NPR?

mtptwo
01-27-2011, 9:00 AM
Why would you listen to NPR?

To actually get factual news not laden with political opinion?

pointedstick
01-27-2011, 9:03 AM
To actually get factual news not laden with political opinion?

You mean, like the program the OP is describing?
:rofl: :rofl:

MaHoTex
01-27-2011, 9:04 AM
To actually get factual news not laden with political opinion?

HaHaHa, now this is funny.

rodeoflyer
01-27-2011, 9:12 AM
To actually get factual news not laden with political opinion?


:rofl2:

HowardW56
01-27-2011, 9:18 AM
To actually get factual news not laden with political opinion?


You're kidding, right?

Ed_in_Sac
01-27-2011, 9:19 AM
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/27/133247508/the-history-and-growing-influence-of-the-nra

is a synopsis of what he said and there is an audio link, active at 5 pm et.

Dave A, it is one of my peeves that a organization called National Public Radio is so one sided in its presentation of the news and that they only allow people on their broadcasts who support their liberal agenda. Listen to what he says about the Supreme Court and the Heller decision. While he did not say this, I suspect it will be soon that we hear people on the extreme left say we have a failed Supreme Court. That would be a justification to have some outside organization, like the UN, supersede SCOTUS.

Don't normally listen to NPR, just happened to tune this station while driving. Possibly I should listen to it more often to hear which of our freedoms are under assault.

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 9:37 AM
NPR does not have a stated agenda of upholding the GOP. All the other major news networks are backed by big money with big agendas. NPR gets the majority its money from the people. Donations and grants.

Bhobbs
01-27-2011, 9:40 AM
The guest speaker just said that gun ownership has been in decline since the late 60's. I wonder where he gets that data.

pointedstick
01-27-2011, 9:48 AM
NPR does not have a stated agenda of upholding the GOP. All the other major news networks are backed by big money with big agendas. NPR gets the majority its money from the people. Donations and grants.

You think that doesn't give them an agenda of their own? Every person and organization has an agenda, regardless of who holds the pure strings. Again, if NPR is so balanced, what explains the NRA hit piece and the disrespect for a fundamental human right that's specifically enumerated in our constitution's bill of rights?

J.D.Allen
01-27-2011, 9:53 AM
While he did not say this, I suspect it will be soon that we hear people on the extreme left say we have a failed Supreme Court. That would be a justification to have some outside organization, like the UN, supersede SCOTUS.

If they attempt something like this I believe at least some of our generals would attempt a coup.

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 10:30 AM
You think that doesn't give them an agenda of their own? Every person and organization has an agenda, regardless of who holds the pure strings. Again, if NPR is so balanced, what explains the NRA hit piece and the disrespect for a fundamental human right that's specifically enumerated in our constitution's bill of rights?

Most shows on NPR have never been good on guns. Most of the interviewers seem to be uneducated or familiar with guns. Insight is an exception - Jeffrey Callison, whatever his bias may be, asks great questions and holds good debates. I think as our society warms up to the idea of RKBA being a fundamental right that NPR's coverage of it will improve.

Just in general though, NPR does not have the vitriolic opinion that Fox, MSNBC and all the others have. The shows on NPR can talk about an issue without blaming the democrats or republicans. If you want to learn about a current issue without that rhetoric then NPR is the choice.

Ed_in_Sac
01-27-2011, 10:40 AM
NPR does not have a stated agenda of upholding the GOP. All the other major news networks are backed by big money with big agendas. NPR gets the majority its money from the people. Donations and grants.

Do you think someone stated that NPR upholds the GOP??? Possibly I misunderstood what you said. And btw, NPR is still supported in part by Federal grants.

DVSmith
01-27-2011, 10:42 AM
I listen to NPR for news. Their depth is generally greater than the fast food media and I am perfectly capable of ignoring slanted reporting.

I do agree their slant is created by WHO they interview more than WHAT they report on. Still, generally better reporting.

Also, it is good to hear the other side.

Dave A
01-27-2011, 10:45 AM
Actually, I should have put a smiley face after my rhetorical question posted in response to Ed_in_Sac's post.

Everyone can listen to whatever media source they want to, that is what makes this such a great country. I tend to not listen to material that gives me heartburn, but that does not mean I am unaware it is out there. In fact it is impossible to escape the agenda driven zealots in this media saturated world. :)

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 10:53 AM
Do you think someone stated that NPR upholds the GOP??? Possibly I misunderstood what you said. And btw, NPR is still supported in part by Federal grants.

Sorry I wasn't clear there - I was juxtaposing NPR to Fox. Anybody who watches Fox needs to understand that anything coming out of the news segments or opinion shows is specifically targeted at supporting the GOP. There is no journalistic integrity in that endeavor. They are a private company though, they can do what they want.

Yes, NPR gets funding from federal grants. Here is a chart that shows it's funding -
http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/publicradiofinances.html

Coded-Dude
01-27-2011, 10:57 AM
I don't watch national news. I do watch the local fox channel(fox40) for local news because its really no better or worse than any other local news station(actually their female cast is easy on the eyes). I also listen to npr from time to time while driving to get a glimpse of global news. However, most of the information I obtain comes from the internet.

Carnivore
01-27-2011, 11:04 AM
Nothing
Productive
Really

Ed_in_Sac
01-27-2011, 11:12 AM
And please don't misunderstand my reason for posting, it is not to denigrate NPR. I figure most people have their position on who to listen to for news. My _itch is the political pov Robert Spitzer espouses and that NPR will probably never allow a differing opinion to be aired. He certainly defamed the NRA, but doubt they will allow anyone representing that national organization on their program.

Hope to be proven wrong, but don't expect to be.

And yes, there are media outlets hanging on the other side of politics. I don't think most programs on tv/radio actually try to report news without a slant. However, I do not want taxpayer money going to support just one point of view.

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 11:22 AM
And please don't misunderstand my reason for posting, it is not to denigrate NPR. I figure most people have their position on who to listen to for news. My _itch is the political pov Robert Spitzer espouses and that NPR will probably never allow a differing opinion to be aired. He certainly defamed the NRA, but doubt they will allow anyone representing that national organization on their program.

Hope to be proven wrong, but don't expect to be.

And yes, there are media outlets hanging on the other side of politics. I don't think most programs on tv/radio actually try to report news without a slant. However, I do not want taxpayer money going to support just one point of view.

The gun issue is one that they continually do poor reporting on. I don't know of many others. This American Life consistently puts out the best investigative reporting I've ever heard. They did an episode awhile ago about guns and it wasn't so bad. They are very good at telling people's stories without getting too much rhetoric involved.

I agree with you that they do a terrible job of talking about the NRA in a neutral manner. I'm hoping that it's due to ignorance on guns and the history of gun control. I'm probably being naive - they probably really just don't like guns... but I'm hoping.

I love listening to Terry Gross, she is a great interviewer.. but when it comes to guns she only invites antis on the show and that's a real problem.

Like I said earlier, as our society warms up to RKBA as a fundamental right I have hope that NPR will improve in it's coverage. As to the federal grants going to NPR - I would hope that they could get by without them, seems like they would have less of a conflict of interest without that money.

Ed_in_Sac
01-27-2011, 11:29 AM
Agree that there is some reporting on NPR that is simply not found in the other broadcast media. As to the history of guns and RKBA listen to the audio recording when it is available, presuming that you did not hear the original broadcast. It was pretty far out there. The program left me feeling that anyone like myself who supports the NRA and their individual 2a rights is dangerous. That is very insulting!

Our own Senator Feinstein wants to bring back the fairness doctrine and apply it to stations like Fox, but seems to ignore NPR's one sided political reporting. That is just wrong!

jccam
01-27-2011, 11:31 AM
To actually get factual news not laden with political opinion?

LOL!

The fact that NPR gets even one dollar of TAX PAYER money is a disgrace. They should be ashamed, but of course they are not ashamed... like most insulated intellectual elites, they feel they deserve it, because they are doing what is best for the rest of us knuckle-dragging neanderthals. They love to claim that the public money they receive it SO infinitesimally small that nobody should be offended by it, but then they turn around and scream that you simply MUST NOT cut it off!

Vitriol is not the standard by which to measure their bias. They may not shout and gesticulate like some commentators on the Right. On the contrary, they talk ever so smoothly, in rich, soothing FM-radio voices, full of condescension and self-importance. Their slant comes from the types of stories they choose to run, who they choose to interview, and what sorts of balancing opinions they offer (or don't offer).

They are the sort of people who say, "Reagan? How did he win? I don't know a SINGLE person who voted for him!" That's right. They don't.

I still have hope that NPR will come around on the gun issue....but they will follow society in this direction. They will not lead the way.

..

P.S. I think most people who dislike NPR would stop complaining if the taxpayer funding would stop. That is really the sore point. No one argues that NPR is not entitled to its liberal views, nor that it should be prevented from broadcasting. Diversity in media is good. But people get riled when they are forced to help pay for it. I agree with Stonewalker that NPR would eliminate a lot of flak if they could wean themselves of it.

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 11:37 AM
Agree that there is some reporting on NPR that is simply not found in the other broadcast media. As to the history of guns and RKBA listen to the audio recording when it is available, presuming that you did not hear the original broadcast. It was pretty far out there. The program left me feeling that anyone like myself who supports the NRA and their individual 2a rights is dangerous. That is very insulting!

Our own Senator Feinstein wants to bring back the fairness doctrine and apply it to stations like Fox, but seems to ignore NPR's one sided political reporting. That is just wrong!

Yea I missed it this morning. Oh, it just came up online. I'll listen when I get a chance.

The program left me feeling that anyone like myself who supports the NRA and their individual 2a rights is dangerous. That is very insulting!

See, this is the kind of stuff that I'm hoping will die off as we get farther away from the early 90's and Heller/McDonald begin to saturate in our Nation. This demonization of the gun owner was a failed tactic that only contributed to culture war. I hope we begin to see it's fallout bleed off soon.

sjalterego
01-27-2011, 11:57 AM
The guest speaker just said that gun ownership has been in decline since the late 60's. I wonder where he gets that data.

It has been. The percentage of households and of individuals who own guns has been in decline for several years. However, as the population increases and gun owners acquire more guns, the absolute number of guns that exist in the U.S. has increased.

I didn't hear the interview but if the speaker was stating that the percentage of households/adults who own guns is decreasing then s/he was correct.

sjalterego
01-27-2011, 12:02 PM
My _itch is the political pov Robert Spitzer espouses and that NPR will probably never allow a differing opinion to be aired. . . . . Hope to be proven wrong, but don't expect to be.


NPR interview of Alan Gura

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91975515

Ed_in_Sac
01-27-2011, 12:26 PM
copy write 2008 and this was not a pro 2a report. It was painfully directed at the close SCOTUS ruling and what kind of reaction that could ignite in DC by people and the police. Correct me if my memory is faulty on this one?

Hogxtz
01-27-2011, 12:34 PM
NPR does not have a stated agenda of upholding the GOP. All the other major news networks are backed by big money with big agendas. NPR gets the majority its money from the people. Donations and grants.

Yeah, mostly from socialist George Soros.

Brickman
01-27-2011, 12:43 PM
Most shows on NPR have never been good on guns. Most of the interviewers seem to be uneducated or familiar with guns. Insight is an exception - Jeffrey Callison, whatever his bias may be, asks great questions and holds good debates. I think as our society warms up to the idea of RKBA being a fundamental right that NPR's coverage of it will improve.

Just in general though, NPR does not have the vitriolic opinion that Fox, MSNBC and all the others have. The shows on NPR can talk about an issue without blaming the democrats or republicans. If you want to learn about a current issue without that rhetoric then NPR is the choice.

Good description. NPR tries to be balanced and fair, unlike many major news organizations. If you actually go through the effort to complain to them (instead of to us) there is a good chance they will read your letter on the air or actually present an opposite opinion.

zhyla
01-27-2011, 12:45 PM
Overheard a few minutes in a coworker's car at lunch time. Some nonsense about the "consensus" being that the 2A applies to militias or something. If I were anti-2A I would have started looking for a new job after Heller.

Luieburger
01-27-2011, 1:33 PM
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/storyComments.php?storyId=133247508&pageNum=1

Post away. :thumbsup:

N6ATF
01-27-2011, 1:54 PM
:dupe: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5697130

Carlosa
01-27-2011, 3:32 PM
Terry Gross and the staff of fresh air are total brady head's....
Terry Gross has gone out of her way many times on fresh air to feed her anti gun interviews many of the lame duck excuses for why guns are evil...
she LOVES the Mexico/US drug cartel fire arm's debate and is always exaggerating numbers statistics and miss representing facts...
she also like to demonize the NRA.
i've stopped listing to her show for this reason alone, i now instead listen to Tim Conway on KAFI i rather laugh that be angry on my way back from work....;)

p.s
believe fresh air is an opinion show, a liberal version of Glen Beck, don't expect her to read listener opinions or taking in calls :)

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 4:03 PM
Terry Gross and the staff of fresh air are total brady head's....
Terry Gross has gone out of her way many times on fresh air to feed her anti gun interviews many of the lame duck excuses for why guns are evil...
she LOVES the Mexico/US drug cartel fire arm's debate and is always exaggerating numbers statistics and miss representing facts...
she also like to demonize the NRA.
i've stopped listing to her show for this reason alone, i now instead listen to Tim Conway on KAFI i rather laugh that be angry on my way back from work....;)

p.s
believe fresh air is an opinion show, a liberal version of Glen Beck, don't expect her to read listener opinions or taking in calls :)

No way man. Rachel Maddow is more like the Glenn Beck of liberals. Terry Gross' entertainment interviews are much better. I usually listen to her show for interviews with actors, singers and songwriters. It's only been bad when she does guns.

I wrote the show voicing my complaint, hopefully they write back or at least take into consideration some of the things I said.

Carlosa
01-27-2011, 4:07 PM
No way man. Rachel Maddow is more like the Glenn Beck of liberals. Terry Gross' entertainment interviews are much better. I usually listen to her show for interviews with actors, singers and songwriters. It's only been bad when she does guns.

I wrote the show voicing my complaint, hopefully they write back or at least take into consideration some of the things I said.

yeah her artsy stuff was good.. she should stick to that..
but all her political interviews or super insano radical...
i used to listen for the arts and life style part of the show, but after her 3rd attempt at tackling gun control on her show I'm out...
she's just to ridiculous.. and seriously Timy Conway Jr is the man :P

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 4:16 PM
I honestly try to take in as little opinion shows/news as possible. Partly because I feel like it can mess your head if you listen to too much and partly because I'd much rather listen to music :)

Carlosa
01-27-2011, 4:25 PM
I honestly try to take in as little opinion news shows/news as possible. Partly because I feel like it can mess your head if you listen to too much and partly because I'd much rather listen to music :)

dood check out Tim Conway Jr on KFI...
no news no politics... just hilarious man talk :D
anyway i know what you mean.. i even try to stay away from the 2a forum as much as possible... it's a good forum but by nature it's always full of serious buzz kill... anyway kfi am 640 starting at 7pm if you get tired of music...

Ed_in_Sac
01-27-2011, 4:25 PM
If it's a dupe then the mods can remove the thread. The other thread was talking about this being broadcast the next day, mine was...well real time to alert people to listen in.

Or combining them would be fine with me.

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 4:36 PM
dood check out Tim Conway Jr on KFI...
no news no politics... just hilarious man talk :D
anyway i know what you mean.. i even try to stay away from the 2a forum as much as possible... it's a good forum but by nature it's always full of serious buzz kill... anyway kfi am 640 starting at 7pm if you get tired of music...

I'll check out Conway. You should spend MORE time in the 2A forum! Great discussion happens here about laws/rights/the Bill of Rights. I honestly can't spend too much time in OT because the noise just starts to hurt my brain. I pretty much spend all my time on Calguns in the 2A forum. Well, other than work and being married and all ;)

M198
01-27-2011, 5:08 PM
dood check out Tim Conway Jr on KFI...
no news no politics... just hilarious man talk :D
anyway i know what you mean.. i even try to stay away from the 2a forum as much as possible... it's a good forum but by nature it's always full of serious buzz kill... anyway kfi am 640 starting at 7pm if you get tired of music...

Conway can get a little right winger at times but does try to keep it funny. I've noticed lately that he's been losing that balance. I suppose it depends on both my mood and his as to whether I'll listen to him. He's a bit like Will Farrell or Vince Vaughn, funny in small doses.

Skidmark
01-27-2011, 5:12 PM
NPR has the best reporting on radio, bar none. It is also the most politically neutral reporting available on the radio. I count on it for relevant news and insightful analysis. And I support it with financial contributions.

BTW, Fresh Air is not an NPR news program, it's a syndicated production out of Philadelphia.

SanPedroShooter
01-27-2011, 5:21 PM
NPR has the best reporting on radio, bar none. It is also the most politically neutral reporting available on the radio. I count on it for relevant news and insightful analysis. And I support it with financial contributions.

BTW, Fresh Air is not an NPR news program, it's a syndicated production out of Philadelphia.

Thats right. No one has pointed that out yet. Fresh air is produced by WZZY or something out of philly, not news...
I agree that NPR should not recieve fed dollars, but you have to get your news somwhere and i would love to hear someone tell me where i can get real news programing without commercials 24 hours a day?

jayhuh
01-27-2011, 5:23 PM
Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer!!!

Just sayin'

Why would you listen to NPR?

Brickman
01-27-2011, 5:52 PM
Why would you listen to NPR?

Because I don't like to be manipulated into a frenzy by fear mongers like FOX 'news'.

ScottB
01-27-2011, 5:54 PM
Get ready for the Big Push.

It took them a couple weeks to get organized, but the whole anti-gun machine is cranking up, from White House all the way down to the cities and the media is right behind them, carrying their water as usual. There was a BS story on KNX radio today about how AB962 would have banned "cop killer bullets" but for one rogue judge, there was a news article quoting a senior WH staffer saying they were looking into "changing some rules" and that it would definitely be an issue in the upcoming Congress as well.

We are in for a full court press by the antis

MolonLabe2008
01-27-2011, 6:22 PM
NPR is America's version of Russia's Pravda.

It is federally subsidized and wouldn't last one minute without said funding.

The only people who listen to NPR are left leaning.

pMcW
01-27-2011, 6:44 PM
What's their point?

One main point of their thesis is that the NRA did not become a powerful political force until after the government first started really messing with gun rights in 1968. They try to attack the legitimacy of the NRA because it has evolved over time. That's ridiculous! Of course it has evolved over time. When gun rights were not threatened, there was no need for the NRA to defend gun rights strongly. Sure the NRA did start out as an organization to encourage marksmanship. How could such an organization continue to encourage when guns are banned?

The other main point is that the original intent of the second amendment was about militias and not individuals. But what was their first piece of evidencea? That the right of self defense was unquestioned at the time of the second amendment and long understood from common law, meaning that the 2nd amendment wouldn't be needed to protect individual rights. By their own argument, the second amendment doesn't matter for individuals, because the individual right of self defense is assumed. Yet they now want to ignore that individual right.

Stonewalker
01-27-2011, 6:48 PM
NPR is America's version of Russia's Pravda.

It is federally subsidized and wouldn't last one minute without said funding.

The only people who listen to NPR are left leaning.

And you'd better learn to not alienate left-leaning gun-owners because they are valuable to our fight. I'm fairly left leaning but I will argue for 30 round "clips", the repeal of the CA AWB and even the NFA because I believe it undermines the spirit of the 2A.

Skidmark
01-27-2011, 6:52 PM
NPR is America's version of Russia's Pravda.

It is federally subsidized and wouldn't last one minute without said funding.

The only people who listen to NPR are left leaning.

:rofl2:

NPR's revenue comes primarily from fees paid by our member stations, contributions from corporate sponsors, institutional foundation grants, gifts from major donors, and fees paid by users of The Public Radio Satellite System. We receive no direct federal funding for operations. The largest share of NPR's revenue comes from program fees and station dues paid by member stations that broadcast NPR programs.

http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/publicradiofinances.html

ScottB
01-27-2011, 6:57 PM
I don't lean left at all and I listen to NPR daily. Some stories are boring or whiney, some are interesting. Beats the hell out of listening to the speed rants of the am screamers and their annoying commercials all day.

The point is the anti gun push is heating up and cranking up the rhetoric, demonizing our side and giving a generous and uncritical platform for the antis to spew their BS is just the opening salvo. They are preparing the battlefield. The real troops will hit the beach in due course.

SanPedroShooter
01-27-2011, 7:15 PM
I don't lean left at all and I listen to NPR daily. Some stories are boring or whiney, some are interesting. Beats the hell out of listening to the speed rants of the am screamers and their annoying commercials all day.

The point is the anti gun push is heating up and cranking up the rhetoric, demonizing our side and giving a generous and uncritical platform for the antis to spew their BS is just the opening salvo. They are preparing the battlefield. The real troops will hit the beach in due course.

Youre right on. I am new to the fight so its the first time I've ever seen the whole machine in action. Its a bit scary really. From the white house to the beat reporter, the drum beats to one purpose. I'm not to concerned yet, the GOP is still working on their tea party cred. If the mag ban is the full court press, well....

But it is disturbing to see some small (or big depending on how you look at it) things moving. The ATF "sporting purpose" review, the semi auto, .22 cal and over rifle sales reporting on the border plus vague hints and rumblings... wait and
see responses from on high... its all a little disconcerting.

And I'm A Rifleman/Libertarian and I listen to NPR all day. The news is just that, NEWS. No commercials, no screaming talking heads. I have my bull**** detector on high alert and manage to get by without my blood pressure rising to high...

When gun control hits a national level, I am thankful for the NRA. They have clout on the hill. I think I'll send my NPR subscription to them this year...

Fish
01-27-2011, 7:29 PM
And you'd better learn to not alienate left-leaning gun-owners because they are valuable to our fight. I'm fairly left leaning but I will argue for 30 round "clips", the repeal of the CA AWB and even the NFA because I believe it undermines the spirit of the 2A.

^^^^^^^^ This.

The tide has turned on Second Amendment issues in the last decade or two partly because people *across the political spectrum* have started to realize that gun control is not the answer. Even hard-left types who consider themselves radically anti-establishment are starting to realize that it is logically impossible to be anti-establishment while declaring that the establishment should have a monopoly on the means to wield deadly force.

Victory for us happens not when we defeat the enemy in some sort of grand battle, but when we walk into the enemy's headquarters and find it abandoned. This is about hearts and minds, positive engagement, and patient, gentle persuasion, one person at a time. Sometimes it means listening patiently to the same old ill-informed crap one more time, and then gently giving the person the information they're missing or explaining our point of view. If they do get hostile, upset, or frustrated, so be it - we keep our cool, and then as far as any bystanders are concerned *they* are the crazies and *we* are the reasonable ones.

Plus, it can be fun, and you never know who might have an open mind about it. I was at a party with some friends in San Francisco over the holidays, I'd just gotten my CCW, and my wife hadn't gotten the memo that this isn't the sort of thing one blabs all over the place at a party. I ended up having some pretty good discussions with some people who, quite frankly, I'd have assumed would be irredeemably hostile to the concept.

Ed_in_Sac
01-28-2011, 7:10 AM
Well said, it is not my intent to foster a left/right bashing thread.

What is of concern to me is the tone of language being used by the anti 2a supporters. When a "Professor" accuses the Supreme Court of ignoring US history and making the wrong decision. And when he accuses the NRA of being kidnapped by political radicals, those things are of concern to me. This seems to be setting a ground work for the anti's to justify going around the legal process to achieve some sort of increased gun control in this country. That simply is my concern.

People might want to review the current issue of the American Rifleman which speaks about the possibility of a UN treaty. I think the professor is simply afraid that a powerful organization is opposing the anti 2a effort to use the UN to obtain gun control.

Pure and simple....let's not fight each other but be aware of where the threat lies.

edit: Apparently the two threads were combined as I was writing this, sorry if that creates any confusion as to my intent in authoring a thread.

Stonewalker
01-28-2011, 7:59 AM
Ed I totally agree. I was thinking about things after listening to the show - how many times have we heard this type of stuff - "what about a well-regulated militia" or "Heller was Bush's doing and so it's invalid" - I'm hoping that as we move farther away from Heller/McDonald this type of talk will subside, but it absolutely is disturbing that some antis are simply ignoring the SCOTUS. What's going to stop a city or state from ignoring the SCOTUS as well if this attitude exists? People are ignoring the fricken Law Of the Land!

I mean, I'm not surprised that the Bradys/VPC/CSGV is continuing to push unconstitutional law, but I am surprised that legislatures continue attempt passing such legislation and that a legitimate opinion exists in Academia that the SCOTUS was wrong. Perhaps the SCOTUS will have to smack down some more legislation before people get the idea.

I just hope that attitude starts to subside soon.

Ed_in_Sac
01-28-2011, 8:05 AM
We are on the same page Stonewalker. Hope this UN thing does not become something that divides our country, that would be as bad as losing 2a rights.

end of rant :-)

jccam
01-28-2011, 8:08 AM
Because I don't like to be manipulated into a frenzy by fear mongers like FOX 'news'.
Um... as a reasoning adult, why would you let yourself be manipulated into a frenzy by any radio show? Or maybe you assume that it's only OTHER people who are easily manipulated? Besides, you don't think NPR makes any effort at manipulation of opinion?

NPR has the best reporting on radio, bar none. It is also the most politically neutral reporting available on the radio.


As I posted earlier, NPR's slant comes from the types of stories they choose to run, who they choose to interview, and what sorts of balancing opinions they offer (or don't offer).

And you'd better learn to not alienate left-leaning gun-owners because they are valuable to our fight.


I agree. I used to be a left-leaner in my younger days, and I was always defending the 2A to my friends (I still am!). I hope that honest criticism of NPR doesn't alienate anyone. This is just open discussion about our media, which is important and healthy in a free society.

Terry Gross' entertainment interviews are much better. I usually listen to her show for interviews with actors, singers and songwriters.

Her famous interview with Gene Simmons (of KISS) a few years ago was a classic moment in radio history! I think it was pulled from the archives, but isn't hard to find on the Internet. It is hilarious. Neither Gene nor Terry come off particularly well, but they are both great...couldn't have been scripted better! He behaves like...well... like a rock star (imagine that), but at least an honest one. Terry seems to have been expecting something else, and wasn't prepared for his attempts to burst the public radio bubble. She came off like the SNL parody of NPR ("Good times, good times...") and couldn't grasp the criticisms of insularity. Gene came off like a boor of course, but an articulate boor. It was a hoot.

johnny_22
01-28-2011, 8:18 AM
Thats right. No one has pointed that out yet. Fresh air is produced by WZZY or something out of philly, not news...
I agree that NPR should not recieve fed dollars, but you have to get your news somwhere and i would love to hear someone tell me where i can get real news programing without commercials 24 hours a day?

Fresh Air is distributed by NPR (that's why you find it on www.npr.org). Produced by WHYY in Philly. Just like "This American Life" is out of Chicago, but distributed by Public Radio International (www.pri.org). I do blame or give credit to NPR for the type of show they distribute.

On KQED, there is a show "Forum". You won't find that on www.npr.org, since it is a local call-in show. But, you can find older episodes on www.KQED.org.

Stonewalker
01-28-2011, 8:37 AM
In regards to NPR/local stations - I mentioned the show "Insight" earlier with Jeffrey Callison, that show is put on by Capital Public Radio in the Sacramento area. I'm not sure if it is syndicated anywhere else but it's a pretty good show. He's had some good interviews on the subjects of Heller and McDonald.

Dreaded Claymore
01-28-2011, 8:44 AM
Why would you listen to NPR?

To actually get factual news not laden with political opinion?

That's certainly why I listen to NPR. They're not anywhere near as sensationalist and dumbed-down as normal media. 95% of the time, they seem spot on to me. All you haters hating on NPR are doing yourselves a disservice.

Edit: I'm sorry for calling you all "haters." I didn't intend it as a derogatory term.

Ed_in_Sac
01-28-2011, 9:06 AM
^could we rise above the "haters" moniker?

Fish
01-28-2011, 9:07 AM
I mean, I'm not surprised that the Bradys/VPC/CSGV is continuing to push unconstitutional law, but I am surprised that legislatures continue attempt passing such legislation and that a legitimate opinion exists in Academia that the SCOTUS was wrong.

This kind of thing happens all the time, particularly in academia, which carries on its existence at quite a distance from the influence of reality. People enter the academic world with a certain set of opinions, and often retire with those opinions little changed -- they're never exposed to any influences that might induce them to change them.

Think about how far we've come in the last twenty five years. Back in the mid 1980s, the collective rights interpretation of the second amendment was really the only one out there -- there was no academically credible opinion that the second amendment protected an individual right. Now there is, and that opinion has been gaining ground for a generation, to the point that it represents the majority opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. This must be really disorienting to those old fossils out there, they must feel as if the ground is eroding underneath them.

This is why the "hearts and minds" thing is so very important. I seriously doubt that Heller would have gone our way if it had been heard in the mid-1980s. The words on the paper are the same, but those words will always be interpreted in light of the prevailing sentiment of the times.

What we need to do is make sure that sentiment continues to tilt our way. While SAF, CGF, and the like have been doing a fantastic job on the judicial front, that could all get erased if popular opinion tilts significantly in the other direction. All that the words on a two-hundred-year-old piece of paper will do is make it somewhat harder.


I just hope that attitude starts to subside soon.

It's a slow process. You can't expect people who've spent their lives with a set of beliefs to change overnight. In fact, very often they never change at all, they just retire and make way for fresh thinking.

qwer
01-28-2011, 10:18 AM
NPR's revenue comes primarily from fees paid by our member stations, contributions from corporate sponsors, institutional foundation grants, gifts from major donors, and fees paid by users of The Public Radio Satellite System. We receive no direct federal funding for operations. The largest share of NPR's revenue comes from program fees and station dues paid by member stations that broadcast NPR programs.
http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/publicradiofinances.html

We receive no direct federal funding for operations.

That seems carefully parsed. Here are a couple of other viewpoints which might (or not) add clarity to the federal funding question, not that it matters much for a guns forum.

How Public Is NPR's Funding? (http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/10/how_public_is_nprs_funding.html)
In the end, then, local NPR affiliates derive something like 41% of their funding from taxes, either directly or indirectly. -

Local stations pay dues and fees for the programs they rebroadcast. This money, recorded as Station Programming Fees (40%), Membership Dues (1%), and Distribution Services (8%), accounts for nearly half of NPR's funds. -

Given that only 89% of the NPR income pie comes from external sources (the rest coming from investment returns), it is not unreasonable to assert that more than 25% of NPR funds from outside sources actually comes from taxpayers. That's not an overwhelming portion of the budget, but it's a long way from two to three percent.

GOP Ready to Probe NPR’s Federal Funding (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39540)
CPB funds NPR via three revenue streams. First, CPB gives “occasional grants” to NPR, which totaled $8,015,374 since the beginning of 2009 to date ($4 million a year).

Second, Congress appropriated a special three-year, $78 million funds specifically for NPR. This funding stream gave NPR $26 million per year in 2007, 2008 and 2009.

Third, NPR member stations receive funds from a $90 million per year congressionally mandated effort to support public radio stations in the U.S. The specific percent of the $90 million that goes to NPR member stations is unclear.

MolonLabe2008
01-28-2011, 6:26 PM
That seems carefully parsed. Here are a couple of other viewpoints which might (or not) add clarity to the federal funding question, not that it matters much for a guns forum.

How Public Is NPR's Funding? (http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/10/how_public_is_nprs_funding.html)


In the end, then, local NPR affiliates derive something like 41% of their funding from taxes, either directly or indirectly. -

Local stations pay dues and fees for the programs they rebroadcast. This money, recorded as Station Programming Fees (40%), Membership Dues (1%), and Distribution Services (8%), accounts for nearly half of NPR's funds. -

Given that only 89% of the NPR income pie comes from external sources (the rest coming from investment returns), it is not unreasonable to assert that more than 25% of NPR funds from outside sources actually comes from taxpayers. That's not an overwhelming portion of the budget, but it's a long way from two to three percent.


GOP Ready to Probe NPR’s Federal Funding (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39540)

CPB funds NPR via three revenue streams. First, CPB gives “occasional grants” to NPR, which totaled $8,015,374 since the beginning of 2009 to date ($4 million a year).

Second, Congress appropriated a special three-year, $78 million funds specifically for NPR. This funding stream gave NPR $26 million per year in 2007, 2008 and 2009.

Third, NPR member stations receive funds from a $90 million per year congressionally mandated effort to support public radio stations in the U.S. The specific percent of the $90 million that goes to NPR member stations is unclear.



.....this^

Defund NPR immediately.

I don't want to waste anymore of my money on any liberal crap.

If NPR can't survive in the free market, like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin and Larry Elder have, then let it fail.

Rotnguns
01-28-2011, 6:50 PM
I listened to the whole interview and thought it was quite reasonable, even though I disagree with the opinions stated. That being said - I'd like to hear the same interviewer give someone like Lott equal time. Otherwise, it's only "part of the public" broadcasting system.

paintballergb
01-28-2011, 7:21 PM
I would literally have to be paid to listen to NPR.

BobB35
01-29-2011, 6:28 AM
To actually get factual news not laden with political opinion?

On NPR? you will be listening for a long time to get that...:rolleyes:

Agent Orange
01-29-2011, 6:52 AM
I would literally have to be paid to listen to NPR.

This. And even then it's doubtful I could tolerate it for long. Lord knows I've tried in the past but their pompous self centered pseudo intellectual drivel is enough to gag a maggot.

glbtrottr
01-29-2011, 8:21 AM
NPR NEEDS TO BE DEFUNDED

If the host is so bothered by the Supreme Court, the 2nd amendment, etc...then he should LEAVE THIS COUNTRY.

If he opts to continue airing his ANTI AMERICAN VIEWS in this program using TAX dollars, the station should REMOVE HIM.

If the STATION continues to pay him MONEY to air his ANTI AMERICAN VIEWS, then NPR should be DEFUNDED.

JUAN left the station and went to FOX because of a moronic overfeminized IDIOT who chose to politicize her position at Taxpayer's expense. Her resignation is insufficient.

The entire station should be DISMANTLED if they continue running a purely LIBERAL AGENDA. It's not NATIONAL LIBERAL RADIO. It's a TAXPAYER SPONSORED NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO. Last I checked over half of this country paying for their views DISAGREES with them - they just lack the CONVICTION TO VOTE.

SHUT IT DOWN

Agent Orange
01-29-2011, 9:22 AM
^ But then we wouldn't get exposed to this kind of stuff:

http://tinyurl.com/48suu84

Dreaded Claymore
01-29-2011, 11:01 PM
^ But then we wouldn't get exposed to this kind of stuff:

http://tinyurl.com/48suu84

What's wrong with that? I think that's a pretty unique story. I'm not saying I think that kind of thing will work on hardened criminals, but seriously, that kid was given something new to think on which will maybe result in him living his life better.