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emgee00
01-26-2011, 2:13 PM
Ok, here is what I found out earlier by calling the DOJ.

I spoke to the DOJ asking a few general questions today. They stated to me that in order to maintain a gun that is officially registered to you, you must not change any of the following 4 things:

1) Barrel length
2) Caliber Size
3) Serial Number
4) Anything that would change the make/model of the firearm

That being said, they consider any of these modifications to have changed the gun into being "unregistered" to the original owner.

I plan on starting a post in another section to discuss the actual codes.....

Does anybody have portions of the law that I can read for myself to make me feel better about purchasing a single shot conversion (SSC)? I obviously was in the market until I spoke to my neighbor who warned me about what the DOJ told me today.

If a SSC has to be kept in tact, then why would I want it? I am very sad :( after learning this news but am glad I did nothing that could have jeopardized my freedom :).

I also would like to know why so many different FFL's are popping up everywher doing this if what the DOJ says is true. Or is this just their opinion to keep people from like me doing this? ;)

XYZ
01-26-2011, 2:35 PM
It would be interesting to see the PC's for this as I've seen a lot of Calgunners at Valkyrie Arms and the emergence of Table Rock Arms and others shipping to single shot knowledgeable FFL's in CA.

Also, in regards to point number 2, is changing the caliber size the same as using a 40-9 conversion barrel and if so would that be considered an unregistered gun if you didn't change this?

Opb714
01-26-2011, 2:39 PM
It didn't say anything about single shot conversion. You are just using a different magazine. Nothing had changed, barrel, caliber, serial #, changing magazine doesn't change the gun to something else. I bought a ak pistol from out of state came here with a single shot magazine. After 10 days brought it home changed out with a different mag and gtg. Shot that thing 20ft Infront of Leo at burro canyon range. I think they came up to my lane to check out what was making all that noise. Now if I added a stock or forward grip on it then yes, at that time it will be another "model"

wash
01-26-2011, 2:54 PM
Ask for it in writing...

The DOJ will say all kinds of stupid stuff as long as they know they won't wind up in court.

Dreaded Claymore
01-26-2011, 3:44 PM
That being said, they consider any of these modifications to have changed the gun into being "unregistered" to the original owner.

That might be true, but what they didn't tell you is that there's no legal requirement for a gun to be "registered" to you. Sure, the DROS is required when you buy the thing, but they don't require you to never change the gun after that, or keep them constantly updated if you do change anything about it.

And anyway, a single-shot conversion doesn't fall under any of those four types of alteration. Rest easy, fellow. :)

emgee00
01-26-2011, 3:52 PM
It would be interesting to see the PC's for this as I've seen a lot of Calgunners at Valkyrie Arms and the emergence of Table Rock Arms and others shipping to single shot knowledgeable FFL's in CA.

Also, in regards to point number 2, is changing the caliber size the same as using a 40-9 conversion barrel and if so would that be considered an unregistered gun if you didn't change this?

I specifically asked them about this i.e. 10mm to .40S&W conversion barrel for a G29. Their response was it is now a different gun that is no longer registered to you.

I will try to get some PC sections as well as something in writing about all of this.

Does anyone know the procedure about getting a formal AG opinion? Do I send a letter to the AG or to the DOJ? Furthermore, are they good about responding to official inquiries from the public?

SupportGeek
01-26-2011, 4:19 PM
I specifically asked them about this i.e. 10mm to .40S&W conversion barrel for a G29. Their response was it is now a different gun that is no longer registered to you.

I will try to get some PC sections as well as something in writing about all of this.

This would be your best bet here, you probably should have gotten the person on the phone to cite the PC at the time they fed you that drek.
People call DoJ all the time for clarification, they dont look up the answers, they just tell you whatever sounds good, and whatever is the most restricive.
Ive actually found most government agencies are all the same in this respect, they cant be bothered to look things up if they dont have to.

Does anyone know the procedure about getting a formal AG opinion? Do I send a letter to the AG or to the DOJ? Furthermore, are they good about responding to official inquiries from the public?

With a notoriously anti-gun AG, do you REALLY want to be drawing her attentions personally to the legal exceptions that allow us to obtain what we otherwise cannot? I would have to think she would start campaigning to get that hole closed asap once it was on her radar.
Some phrase about poking the hornets nest with a stick comes to mind.

bwiese
01-26-2011, 4:20 PM
As I stated to you in my PM reply to you, the DOJ person you got this info from is either the janitor or a secretary.

The statement has no legal force.

You should have asked for it in writing :) [You probably wouldn't have gotten an answer - like rats, they shut up & hide when they're cornered.]

Handguns are registered by make/model and serial#. Ordinary non-AW long guns are not registered (except voluntarily). Caliber and barrel length are supplementary information. This even applies to registered assault weapons (either SB23 or Roberti-Roos/Kasler guns). You do not lose registered status of a gun just because some feature was changed, and you do not get in trouble for reconfiguring/changing a gun into another legal form.

There is NO PROHIBITION IN LAW against a Californian modifying his own gun, including changes such as:


caliber conversion (say, 40S&W to 357Sig or 9mm etc.);
barrel length change (just avoid SBR/SBS issues on long guns);
Roster-exempt single-shot to repeater conversion or vice versa
single-shot or repeater to semiautomatic conversion (as long as AW doesn't result! - i.e., using a BulletButton maglock + 10rd mag)
Roster-exempt single-action to/from double-action revolver;
rimfire to centerfire or vice versa (as long as AW doesn't result)
finish changes, grip changes, sight changes


However, the "Don'ts":


DO NOT make an AW (see the Calguns AW flowchart on what to avoid)
DO NOT make an 'unconventional pistol' (non-rifled barrel on handgun)
DO NOT make a pistol able to chamber regular shotgun shells
DO NOT make a short barreled rifle (bbl under 16", OAL under 26")
DO NOT make a semiauto centerfire rifle under 30" OAL (==AW!)
DO NOT make a shotgun have under an 18" bbl or under 26" OAL
DO NOT have a long gun w/folding stock folded under 26" OAL (semiauto centerfire: under 30" OAL)
if you turn a pistol into a rifle, it can't be converted back to pistol



Please continue to aggressively comply with the law. The Calguns Foundation will back you, but you shouldn't have any issues with typical pistol mods.

Write Winger
01-26-2011, 7:17 PM
When you buy a single shot pistol, say a PLR 16, is it registered with the state as a handgun or is there just a record of sale like buying an OLL?

jtmkinsd
01-26-2011, 9:22 PM
When you buy a single shot pistol, say a PLR 16, is it registered with the state as a handgun or is there just a record of sale like buying an OLL?

Whenever you buy a handgun in CA it is automatically "registered" to you when you DROS the firearm. Single shot, C&R, Olympic, single action, or any regular rostered handgun.

emgee00
01-27-2011, 5:58 AM
Bill Wiese

Thanks for your input and the PM yesterday!

I ended up calling the DOJ yesterday afternoon, after my initial call, and asked the same questions with the same answers.....I then asked for PC sections for me to be sure and that is when the real story came out. They ended up telling me this is their opinion but essentially there is nothing in writing!

Wow, I now know how to get answers from them when calling. Question everything and ask for backup to what they are quoting!

jtmkinsd
01-27-2011, 8:00 AM
Bill Wiese

Thanks for your input and the PM yesterday!

I ended up calling the DOJ yesterday afternoon, after my initial call, and asked the same questions with the same answers.....I then asked for PC sections for me to be sure and that is when the real story came out. They ended up telling me this is their opinion but essentially there is nothing in writing!

Wow, I now know how to get answers from them when calling. Question everything and ask for backup to what they are quoting!

Nothing new...next thing you know they'll be telling us we can't have our shoulder things that go up anymore.

franklinarmory
01-27-2011, 11:37 AM
Ironically, I have had dealers call into the DOJ to ask about our SE-SSP AR Pistols. They have been given the "A-OK" from the DOJ phone reps.

BTW, registration is a serious issue. There are additional penalties that can be levied if it is determined that you committed a crime with an "unregistered" handgun. That being said, I think the information you received was bogus.

wildhawker
01-27-2011, 11:54 AM
I'd love to know the agent I'd of the person who spouted that BS. The only way to correct the telephone-based misinformation is to call them on it, so to speak.

GOEX FFF
01-27-2011, 12:19 PM
I'll second that. Write them this time with the same exact questions you asked...then you will get a written response. It might go to someone else with a bit different response than what you were "told", now that its in writing and can be challenged.