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Saym14
01-26-2011, 7:40 AM
Dual-State resident and Off Roster handguns question

my friend lives in another State for 4 months of the year. He moves back and forth, here for 8 months and there for the summer 4 months. He has a house, registered car and drivers license in the other state. If he buys or owns a off roster handgun on the other state, Can he bring it here when he moves back to California as long as he registers it and pays the fee?

Librarian
01-26-2011, 7:48 AM
Yes.

Doesn't even matter if he's a CA resident - could be a visitor. The Roster applies to FFL sales to non-exempt persons.

But as a CA resident also, filing the new-resident form (because we can't figure out which one applies, CA law does not speak to dual-residency in this area) seems to be the Right Thing To Do.

Saym14
01-26-2011, 11:30 AM
Yes.

Doesn't even matter if he's a CA resident - could be a visitor. The Roster applies to FFL sales to non-exempt persons.

But as a CA resident also, filing the new-resident form (because we can't figure out which one applies, CA law does not speak to dual-residency in this area) seems to be the Right Thing To Do.

thanks

SDS-Ruger
01-26-2011, 11:36 AM
So if I understand you correctly librarian, you do not need to register a gun bought in a different state if you are a dual-residence since you are not a new-resident to Ca?

jtmkinsd
01-26-2011, 11:59 AM
So if I understand you correctly librarian, you do not need to register a gun bought in a different state if you are a dual-residence since you are not a new-resident to Ca?

Correct.

Merle
01-26-2011, 12:03 PM
So if I understand you correctly librarian, you do not need to register a gun bought in a different state if you are a dual-residence since you are not a new-resident to Ca?

I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to remain a resident of CA as the tax implications, and consequences are serious.

Saym14
01-26-2011, 3:36 PM
So if I understand you correctly librarian, you do not need to register a gun bought in a different state if you are a dual-residence since you are not a new-resident to Ca?

it seems he is saying one could use the new resident form to be safe.

SDS-Ruger
01-26-2011, 4:17 PM
but if it is not stated or mandated then why would you want to?

Saym14
01-26-2011, 4:17 PM
but if it is not stated or mandated then why would you want to?

what if he decides to sell it ? shouldnt it be registered?

loose_electron
01-26-2011, 4:25 PM
if i remember correctly, anyone bringing a gun into the state has 60 days to register it in the state

go read the Wiki, it is covered there.

ke6guj
01-26-2011, 4:46 PM
but if it is not stated or mandated then why would you want to?

one thing to remember is that, if you get popped for illegally CCW'ing, if the handgun is registered to you, it is usually a misdemeanor, but if it isn't registered to you, it is a felony.

SDS-Ruger
01-26-2011, 6:04 PM
if i remember correctly, anyone bringing a gun into the state has 60 days to register it in the state

go read the Wiki, it is covered there.

I will check the wiki

ke6guj
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDS-Ruger View Post
but if it is not stated or mandated then why would you want to?
one thing to remember is that, if you get popped for illegally CCW'ing, if the handgun is registered to you, it is usually a misdemeanor, but if it isn't registered to you, it is a felony.

you should not be illegally ccw'ing in the first place

ke6guj
01-26-2011, 6:13 PM
you should not be illegally ccw'ing in the first place

obviously not, but perhaps you want to UOC legally and the officer decides that your shirt was covering the firearm too much and pops you for CCW, or you are transporting your firearms in the passenger compartment, but forgot to lock the case, oops, CCW. misdemeanor if the handgun was registered to you, felony if it wasn't.

The point is, even if you aren't planning on illegally CCW'ing, circumstances might come up where you inadvertantly pick up a CCW charge.

SanPedroShooter
01-26-2011, 6:29 PM
So you dont have to use the volreg form? I thought it was a requirement when bringing guns into CA permenently... I noticed the DOJ has a form for reporting c&r's too.
As a dual resident, i wondered about reporting becuase it says new resident, which I am not...

SDS-Ruger
01-26-2011, 6:36 PM
read the wiki and looked at the Ca form but it is for new residents nothing about dual residents. how would CADOJ react if they see that you have been have been living here for so many years they will think you violated fed law of buying a gun out of state since they would not be able to see that you are a dual resident.

Anchors
01-26-2011, 6:39 PM
Yes.

Doesn't even matter if he's a CA resident - could be a visitor. The Roster applies to FFL sales to non-exempt persons.

But as a CA resident also, filing the new-resident form (because we can't figure out which one applies, CA law does not speak to dual-residency in this area) seems to be the Right Thing To Do.

That is what I do.
Pay the $19 and register it using my CA ID card (AZ DL).

Both times (LCP and Gen 4 Glock) the DOJ sent me a nice little letter confirming my registration and thanking me for making me illegally donate $19 to them.

Anchors
01-26-2011, 6:40 PM
one thing to remember is that, if you get popped for illegally CCW'ing, if the handgun is registered to you, it is usually a misdemeanor, but if it isn't registered to you, it is a felony.

Really?
What if it isn't registered at all? Not all legal handguns in CA are registered.

Not that I would do it either way, just asking for trouble.

Plus I believe there is some exemption in the PC if you can prove you had reason to believe your life would be in danger? Maybe? Idk.

mix0351
01-26-2011, 6:48 PM
so any gun i own that i bought in arz i can just pay 19 dallors and the guns will be in ca legally?

todd2968
01-26-2011, 6:54 PM
Sounds like he is a resident of another state but visits here for long periods of time. Big questions Where is his drivers license?, Where does he claim income tax?, Where does he vote?

Anchors
01-26-2011, 6:55 PM
so any gun i own that i bought in arz i can just pay 19 dallors and the guns will be in ca legally?

As long as it complies with other CA laws like the Assault Weapon regulations and magazine laws and such then yes.

and no Taurus Judges. haha.

And that is just handguns, any long gun that doesn't violate AW/magazine laws doesn't even need to go through the process. Just bring it in.

mix0351
01-26-2011, 6:57 PM
so my .40 cal baby eagal would be ok? and my other hand guns that are not on the approved list would be ok as well.

Anchors
01-26-2011, 7:00 PM
Yes as long as they don't fire shotgun shells and aren't "assault pistols"

Example of an AW:
They have a magazine that attaches outside of the grip and a threaded barrel, but no bullet button
So an AR pistol would be no go if it had no bullet button.

Your D.E. is fine.

mix0351
01-26-2011, 7:02 PM
awesome thank you very much im just going to buy a few rad locks

cook2s
01-26-2011, 8:30 PM
One issue with this is that California doesn't recognize dual residency and they are pretty clear what classifies you being a CA resident. (they want your taxes so they spell it out to there advantage). Since you mention that 8 months is spent in CA per year, the state recognizes you as a CA resident and you need to abide by their rules. I was just looking this stuff up last week and is the way I understood it. So according to CA purchSing guns in another state isn't an option.

I have been in a similar position having AZ DL license and whatnot but spending majority of year in CA.

Everything I have said above is just my personal opinion as I understand it trying to be conservative to stay out of trouble, so take it as you wish.

Librarian
01-26-2011, 8:43 PM
One issue with this is that California doesn't recognize dual residency and they are pretty clear what classifies you being a CA resident. (they want your taxes so they spell it out to there advantage). Since you mention that 8 months is spent in CA per year, the state recognizes you as a CA resident and you need to abide by their rules. I was just looking this stuff up last week and is the way I understood it. So according to CA purchSing guns in another state isn't an option.


Tricky part here is, if the other state thinks you live there and allows you to buy guns, CA can just go whistle - when in one state of residence, do as that state requires.

'Dual residency' just isn't well covered in CA; the tax thing is resident/non-resident, and they certainly understand that income can be taxed, or not, but as for the rest? I'm probably missing a whole world of legal information, but dual residency seems very poorly handled from the little bit I have seen.

Saym14
01-26-2011, 8:49 PM
Librarian... you mention a visitor can bring an off roster gun in. but they must take it whenhey leave correct. they cant PPT it to a resident here can they?

dustoff31
01-26-2011, 9:00 PM
Tricky part here is, if the other state thinks you live there and allows you to buy guns, CA can just go whistle - when in one state of residence, do as that state requires.

'Dual residency' just isn't well covered in CA; the tax thing is resident/non-resident, and they certainly understand that income can be taxed, or not, but as for the rest? I'm probably missing a whole world of legal information, but dual residency seems very poorly handled from the little bit I have seen.

You're right dual residency isn't clear. But I believe many tend to overthink the matter. It's really nothing more than "When in Rome, do as the Romans, and "Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's"

As far as firearms go, really, the only issue is where you can legally buy them.

Librarian
01-26-2011, 10:15 PM
Librarian... you mention a visitor can bring an off roster gun in. but they must take it whenhey leave correct. they cant PPT it to a resident here can they?

Right.

An interstate transfer must go through a 'regular' dealer transaction. Your friend from out of state can come here and shoot an off-Roster handgun, but an FFL cannot transfer that gun to a non-Roster-exempt buyer.

CA PPT is exempt from the Roster, but PPT is a special thing and is implemented in the CA-FFL-DROS software to accept only CA ID, so your out of state visitor cannot sell PPT.

Saym14
01-27-2011, 6:58 AM
so your out of state visitor cannot sell PPT.

...unless he has a CA I.D. right ? (dual residency)

Merle
01-27-2011, 7:19 AM
The CA residency isn't defined well. It varies for the FTB, divorce, tuition and firearms. Just to quote the CA DMV site, "Residency is established by ... any other privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to nonresidents" and I would think a PPT transfer would establish residency (but there are probably other 'justifications' we could think of).

So, if you live -or- plan on living in CA, you could be considered a resident for all intents and purposes while you're there. Get a CA ID ($23 and ~60 days later) for your firearm purposes (e.g. you won't be denied if you run out of insurance).

When you move to another state (e.g. NV) for a period of XX days or more, you must get a DL

E.g. NV no longer does ID -and- DL combinations and your CA DL will get hole punched making it invalid. The NV ID isn't good for firearm purchases any more but you will get a DL within 7 calendar days (and if you change your address, ~7 days for one with an updated address for $3) and you're good to go for firearm purposes there.

With that, you should be able to purchase any off roster gun in another state and then do a PPT transfer in CA.

Do you need to 'register' it with the CA DoJ? I don't know but I can't see the harm.

Librarian
01-27-2011, 10:15 AM
...unless he has a CA I.D. right ? (dual residency)

Yes, but you didn't mention that in the first question. :)

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
01-27-2011, 11:40 AM
The CA residency isn't defined well. It varies for the FTB, divorce, tuition and firearms.

So, if you live -or- plan on living in CA, you could be considered a resident for all intents and purposes while you're there. Get a CA ID ($23 and ~60 days later) for your firearm purposes (e.g. you won't be denied if you run out of insurance).

When you move to another state (e.g. NV) for a period of XX days or more, you must get a DL
.

Can anyone recommend a good source to research this further (book or web site)?

I own a house in a free state and someday when I retire I'd like to live out of state long enough each year to legally pay income taxes, etc., somewhere else but still keep a house here.

thanks,

ASI870
01-27-2011, 11:52 AM
I am unfortunaly a CA resident 50+ years (CA DL, Job pay taxes), however I have a Utah ID card because I visit and have family in Utah. I have a non-resident CCW from Utah. Here is my question...Can I convert my non-resident CCW to a resident CCW? If so would it be legal for me to purchaes a handgun in Utah?

Saym14
01-27-2011, 10:32 PM
I am unfortunaly a CA resident 50+ years (CA DL, Job pay taxes), however I have a Utah ID card because I visit and have family in Utah. I have a non-resident CCW from Utah. Here is my question...Can I convert my non-resident CCW to a resident CCW? If so would it be legal for me to purchaes a handgun in Utah?

sounds like an entirely new thread and a question for those that know Ut laws.