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View Full Version : Article: "...data show drop in criminal firepower during assault gun ban"


pMcW
01-24-2011, 5:32 PM
Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/22/AR2011012203452.html

They don't make a very convincing case that the level of violence in most of the incidents that they cite depended on (or was increased by) the presence of the high capacity magazines. Apparently, the very presence of the magazines themselves is the problem...

(not to mention that most of the magazines in their statistics are probably standard capacity magazines anyway.)

pMcW
01-24-2011, 5:35 PM
The gallery that accompanies the article is strange. It seems to show normal, happy, regular people enjoying their second amendment freedom responsibly. Or did I miss something?

HowardW56
01-24-2011, 5:40 PM
The article neglects to mention that violent crime rates continued to decline after the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban...

pointedstick
01-24-2011, 5:43 PM
The article neglects to mention that violent crime rates continued to decline after the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban...

…and that they'd already started declining before it took effect.

HowardW56
01-24-2011, 5:44 PM
…and that they'd already started declining before it took effect.

Absolutely, I omitted that fact..

$P-Ritch$
01-24-2011, 5:49 PM
The gallery that accompanies the article is strange. It seems to show normal, happy, regular people enjoying their second amendment freedom responsibly. Or did I miss something?

You did miss something. Those are the hardened criminals walking around with "platoon-sized" firepower that'll kill you over a parking spot that writer had in mind.

The article neglects to mention that violent crime rates continued to decline after the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban...

That's what I was looking for too. Well, of course more weapons with standard cap mags would be seized now compared to back during the ban. Now they are readily available in large numbers to the public. And just because they are available doesn't mean they lead to violent crime.

Werewolf1021
01-24-2011, 6:02 PM
I cant even read the comments. "It's the NRA's fault" "Blame the NRA!" "The NRA are dolts"

Must be nice to have a scapegoat. Now, which historical leader blamed all of his countries troubles on a particular group?

Hint: It violates Godwin's law. :D

Apocalypsenerd
01-24-2011, 6:04 PM
The article seemed to me to show that more modern weapons were recovered prior to the ban then afterwards. In other words, because of the ban there were less of them. The positive connection to crime seems to be a spurious one.

stix213
01-24-2011, 6:28 PM
:willy_nilly: Oh no high caps!

I didn't see really any attempt to link high caps to actual increases in crime at all in that article.

Ford8N
01-24-2011, 6:41 PM
Hear we go again, blame the inanimate object rather than the insane person pulling the trigger. And as usual, any restriction on the rights of the law abiding will not stop the criminally insane...or even the normal criminal. There is only one way to stop crime but Americans are to p***yfied and "PC" to do it.

tonelar
01-24-2011, 6:46 PM
Someone ought to remind them that high cap mags have been banned in CA for over a decade and cities like Oakland continue to have increases in their violent crimes.

scarville
01-24-2011, 7:11 PM
I didn't see really any attempt to link high caps to actual increases in crime at all in that article.
Exactly. This is an attempt to get people asking the wrong question.

SupportGeek
01-24-2011, 8:21 PM
North Hollywood took place during the AW ban too didnt it?

Looks like making AW's and hi-caps illegal was TOTALLY effective there....

/sarcasm

nick
01-24-2011, 9:14 PM
Actually, the article isn't talking about the decline in violent crimes or any crimes during the Clinton AW ban. It talks about fewer confiscated guns in Virginia (that's right, confiscated, for whatever reason) having high capacity mags during the ban. It's akin to talking about MGs not being in common use after they've been heavily taxed for 76 years and their number was artificially limited for 24 years.

Yeah, I'm sure there'll be fewer confiscated guns with hi-cap mags after the new production is banned and all the new guns come with 10-round mags instead.

Here's a good snippet on how the Post went around the Tiahrt amendment (and note the complete lack of bias in the way they described it. Can you see the word 'trace' anywhere in it? :rolleyes:):

The analysis by The Post is possible because of a little-known database of guns seized in Virginia. The database, called the Criminal Firearms Clearinghouse, has information on more than 100,000 firearms recovered by more than 200 local police departments since 1993. A federal law in 2003, known as the Tiahrt Amendment after the congressman who sponsored it, banned the release of federal data on guns recovered in crimes.

And then comes this little snippet:

Last year, The Post mined the database to pierce the secrecy imposed by Congress on federal gun-tracing records. The analysis found that a fraction of licensed dealers in Virginia sell most of guns later seized by police. The vast majority of the guns in the database were confiscated because of illegal-possession charges. But thousands were swept up in the wake of assaults, robberies and shootings.

So, aside from everything else, we make up a crime, we prosecute for it, and then use the data on those prosecutions to call for more made-up crimes, since, you got it, the crime rate just went up, with all these heinous crimes of illegal possession. All that under the guise of fighting real crimes. No wonder our jails are overcrowded.

That's close to 100,000 pieces of property stolen and no doubt a similar (but lower, since many guns are likely to've been confiscated from a single owner) number of lives at least temporarily screwed up supposedly in order to fight "thousands" of real crimes (and there's a big question as to whether this "fighting" does anything other than making up new crimes to begin with).

Then again, I'm sure an "illegal possession" crime is easier to prosecute, much less solve, than a burglary or a murder.

Wherryj
01-25-2011, 8:23 AM
The article neglects to mention that violent crime rates continued to decline after the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban...

...and also fails to make any sort of connection between guns that are confiscated with standard capacity magazines meaning more crime/higher "firepower" than 10 round magazines.

If I'm a criminal and decided, for some reason, that I couldn't get ahold of one of those "rare" "high caps", perhaps I decide to move up from 9mm to 10mm? A 10mm holding 15 rounds is rather hard to conceal for that illegal robbery after all.

Which would be considered "more firepower": 15 rounds of 9mm or 10 rounds of 10mm? It is debatable, but I'd vote on the 10mm.

I'm waiting for the next WashPo expose about how local police are impounding more Toyota Corollas than Ford Model Ts. That must obviously mean that the Japanese are fueling our problems with drunk drivers.

Untamed1972
01-25-2011, 9:33 AM
The article neglects to mention that violent crime rates continued to decline after the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban...

…and that they'd already started declining before it took effect.

And couldn't it also be said that during the period of the Fed AW ban that more and more states were going shall issue CCW, which likely had a larger impact on the reduction in violent crime in those states then the AWB did?

jwb28
01-25-2011, 2:40 PM
Just another "study" in which the conclusion was reached before the "facts" were gathered to support it.