PDA

View Full Version : Open Carry Police Encounter - Fountain Valley, Weapons Seized


CitaDeL
01-23-2011, 10:28 PM
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?85926-Garden-Grove-Fountain-Valley-CA-detainment

It appears that a security guard reported armed gunmen, instigating a SWAT response wherein their firearms were seized.

paul0660
01-23-2011, 10:42 PM
Wow. Fast Swat response. Waiting for the vid and audio.

Window_Seat
01-23-2011, 10:44 PM
Hmmmm... Interesting....

Erik.

N6ATF
01-24-2011, 1:05 AM
Sounds like a security guard that should be out of a job, a license, and $2,000 for making a false police report and abusing the 911 system. Hello, BSIS!?

locosway
01-24-2011, 2:30 AM
Sounds like a security guard that should be out of a job, a license, and $2,000 for making a false police report and abusing the 911 system. Hello, BSIS!?

Assuming that they did indeed make a false police report.

What sucks is CGF will not represent UOCers at this time. I guess they missed the memo over there at opencarry.org.

gatdammit
01-24-2011, 2:49 AM
^ I wonder if they need CGF, as the other two people with them were violated as well, and they weren't armed (according to his posts). Maybe they could just use a straight civil rights attorney. Interested to see how this is going to pan out.

Theseus
01-24-2011, 3:01 AM
Ouch.

This has always led me to wonder, at what point is being a "concerned citizen" something more?

I mean, I can understand a citizen calling in not knowing it is legal and reporting MWG, but there is a distinct difference between that and the whole "fire" in a theater deal. At what point is a concerned citizen nothing more than a citizen with an agenda causing unreasonable panic?

If I were a lawyer, I might argue that, depending on the words used to call in by the security guard, there was something more than a reasonable concern that created a "fire" in a theater like panic when there was no fire. . . But, IANAL. . . so maybe I am wrong.

Funtimes
01-24-2011, 3:20 AM
I don't think CGF said they *won't*, just that they rather not (Is this a correct understanding?); and they also had people apply for CCW to generate more standing. Sometimes a obvious win, is just that, a win. It's just a matter of investment and current funding.

--- If the funds are available, and your almost certain to recover attorney fee's, seems pointless to *not* go after it.

-- If funds are tight you really have to look at what your efforts are concentrated on, and whether or not the risk vs. reward is a benefit to the corporation.

Sucks (and good) the guy took his video down!

B Strong
01-24-2011, 8:15 AM
Interesting, but the vid was pulled before I got there.

The advice to do the PRA for the 911 call is gtg - it will be very interesting to see what the caller reported.

command_liner
01-24-2011, 10:06 AM
Was it in Fountain Valley?

I live in Fountain Valley and have been working with the City Council and Chief of Police
to try to prevent this outcome. At this last election, I specifically spoke with the
other candidates (I ran also) warning the candidates about the danger and exposure.

As a city, Fountain Valley is, and has been, on notice as to the legality of OC, and to
the illegality overreaction. My city has no place to hide on this issue. If the police
have acted illegally, they should pay. Personally.

Perhaps I should discuss this policy and execution failure with the City Council.

Stonewalker
01-24-2011, 10:23 AM
This could be good. Seems like most PDs have learned that you can't seize someones firearm for UOC if all laws are followed. This won't help politically, but it could help in the courts.

Jack L
01-24-2011, 10:40 AM
Was it in Fountain Valley?

I live in Fountain Valley and have been working with the City Council and Chief of Police
to try to prevent this outcome. At this last election, I specifically spoke with the
other candidates (I ran also) warning the candidates about the danger and exposure.

As a city, Fountain Valley is, and has been, on notice as to the legality of OC, and to
the illegality overreaction. My city has no place to hide on this issue. If the police
have acted illegally, they should pay. Personally.

Perhaps I should discuss this policy and execution failure with the City Council.

Go for it. They need an education. Get national attention if possible.

ipser
01-24-2011, 10:48 AM
What sucks is CGF will not represent UOCers at this time. I guess they missed the memo over there at opencarry.org.

I'm not as anti-OC as many here but CGF has made it's views plain on this issue. Open carriers should provide for their own defense or leave the guns home.

choprzrul
01-24-2011, 11:04 AM
I sure would like to see a bunch of lawyers engage in ambulance chasing tactics in 2A civil rights violation types of incidents.

Perhaps if the lawyers get the $$ settlement and the person who's civil rights have been violated gets 10% of the retirement pension of each officer and supervisor involved as compensation? I don't see any other way of stopping these fundamental civil rights violations other than to start taxing every single officer involved in these criminal activities.

.

maddoggie13
01-24-2011, 11:10 AM
:pinch::lurk5:

Patrick-2
01-24-2011, 11:47 AM
In Before the Lock!

:lurk5:

Seriously...hoping for more info.

bden
01-24-2011, 12:07 PM
oh boy. This is gonna be fun.

paul0660
01-24-2011, 12:20 PM
Was any of this confirmed? I didn't see a video.

I did, and do still, think it was BS. It is so easy to yank the chain around here.

dfletcher
01-24-2011, 12:27 PM
Sounds like a security guard that should be out of a job, a license, and $2,000 for making a false police report and abusing the 911 system. Hello, BSIS!?

Really? He called in a "men with guns" report and the police showed up to find ...... men with guns. :cool:

Untamed1972
01-24-2011, 12:32 PM
Really? He called in a "men with guns" report and the police showed up to find ...... men with guns. :cool:

It depends on how the gaurd reported it. There is a difference between "send help....there are armed gunmen at the mall!" and "Yes, I would like to report there are 3 nicely dressed men with holster pistols openly displayed at the mall who seem to be eating lunch at the food court." (details my own for example sake)

Coded-Dude
01-24-2011, 12:34 PM
i have yet to find a police report about this......

choprzrul
01-24-2011, 12:41 PM
i have yet to find a police report about this......

The link in OP leads to an opencarry.org forum posting that started shortly after midnight on the 24th. Not sure exactly when the incident occured, but from the looks of things the victims are attempting to communicate with Jason Davis for legal council. They have pulled down the video of the incident pending council's advice. It would seem really early in the process for a police report to be available.

.

Coded-Dude
01-24-2011, 12:56 PM
i kind of figured that, but you'd think that if swat was called out the local news would have at least covered something about the story.

choprzrul
01-24-2011, 1:25 PM
i kind of figured that, but you'd think that if swat was called out the local news would have at least covered something about the story.

I don't know about that. They were duped by a mall ninja and ended up violating several fundamental civil rights while being recorded. I am thinking that they are wishing the whole thing would go away quietly.

.

locosway
01-24-2011, 6:03 PM
Was it in Fountain Valley?

I live in Fountain Valley and have been working with the City Council and Chief of Police
to try to prevent this outcome. At this last election, I specifically spoke with the
other candidates (I ran also) warning the candidates about the danger and exposure.

As a city, Fountain Valley is, and has been, on notice as to the legality of OC, and to
the illegality overreaction. My city has no place to hide on this issue. If the police
have acted illegally, taxpayers should pay. Personally.

Perhaps I should discuss this policy and execution failure with the City Council.

Fixed it for ya...

stix213
01-24-2011, 6:09 PM
What sucks is CGF will not represent UOCers at this time.

I donate what I consider to be a fairly large amount of money to the CGF, and I would not be too happy if it were used to defend people who are purposely attracting attention and tempting police action, even if they are acting within the law. Especially after the CGF has advised not to UOC in urban areas at this time because its unnecessarily stirring the pot.

If you are out there on the streets in urban areas with your gun on your hip and a video camera in the cops faces, please provide for your own defense and don't plan on defending yourself with the donations of others.

locosway
01-24-2011, 6:12 PM
I donate what I consider to be a fairly large amount of money to the CGF, and I would not be too happy if it were used to defend people who are purposely attracting attention and tempting police action. Especially after the CGF has advised not to UOC at this time because its unnecessarily stirring the pot.

I wasn't insinuating that CGF should, or it's wrong that they aren't supporting UOC at this time. I understand their reasons, and I whole heartedly agree with their stance on UOC at this time.

With that said, your argument goes both ways. I'm sure there are people who donate "large amounts of money" to CGF just as yourself who would like to see them support UOC.

N6ATF
01-24-2011, 6:13 PM
I would if it were used to seek and be awarded hundreds of thousands of dollars in punitive damages above attorney's fees, in order to advance future civil rights lawsuits against these repeated, blatant and intentional violators.

stix213
01-24-2011, 6:16 PM
I wasn't insinuating that CGF should, or it's wrong that they aren't supporting UOC at this time. I understand their reasons, and I whole heartedly agree with their stance on UOC at this time.

With that said, your argument goes both ways. I'm sure there are people who donate "large amounts of money" to CGF just as yourself who would like to see them support UOC.

Well I'm sure thats true, but CGF has repeatedly stated their current opinions and top goals, and I sent money to them in agreement with them, which is obviously different than someone involved in wishful thinking.

That said I certainly hope the UOCers in this case give that police dept hell

Edit: I certainly would love to see a donations supported legal fund dedicated to the defense of UOCers. I don't believe one exists, but I bet it could be successful.

Coded-Dude
01-24-2011, 6:25 PM
I thought CGF's position was "don't UOC unless you have already attempted to obtain a CCW and failed to get approval."

Doesn't that help further the CCW cause?

Funtimes
01-24-2011, 6:51 PM
I am almost certain that you can donate money to the calguns foundation and the doners can require that money be used for a specific purpose, such as "Unloaded Open carry defense legal defense".

paul0660
01-24-2011, 7:00 PM
I would not be too happy if it were used to defend people who are purposely attracting attention and tempting police action,

Yeppers.

stix213
01-24-2011, 7:04 PM
I thought CGF's position was "don't UOC unless you have already attempted to obtain a CCW and failed to get approval."

Doesn't that help further the CCW cause?

I believe their position is more along the lines of:

If you are going to UOC anyways regardless of our advice.... do try to get a CCW first.

Sunday
01-24-2011, 7:11 PM
Civil suite!!

CitaDeL
01-24-2011, 7:53 PM
I donate what I consider to be a fairly large amount of money to the CGF, and I would not be too happy if it were used to defend people who are purposely attracting attention and tempting police action, even if they are acting within the law. Especially after the CGF has advised not to UOC in urban areas at this time because its unnecessarily stirring the pot.

If you are out there on the streets in urban areas with your gun on your hip and a video camera in the cops faces, please provide for your own defense and don't plan on defending yourself with the donations of others.

Other than donating to directly Theseus' defense, it hasnt mattered much where my donation goes. I think the board is perfectly capable of determining the best place for the funds, even if the cause isnt something that I have a direct interest in. I would hope that you would feel comfortable donating to CGF even if they chose to fund the defense of an open carry advocate, if they thought that that person had a strong enough case to make some advances for 'bear' in California.

blakdawg
01-24-2011, 7:59 PM
I am almost certain that you can donate money to the calguns foundation and the doners can require that money be used for a specific purpose, such as "Unloaded Open carry defense legal defense".

That's true - but they can also refuse to accept such a contribution. You can't just force them to work on some project that they think is counterproductive or distracting.

I'm not saying they have refused such a gift, or that they would. Restricted gifts like that are a pain in the *** for organizations, because then they have to track all of the different purposes for which money is donated - and they have to play lawyer (doesn't seem to bug them :) ) and decide how to interpret whatever language you used to restrict your gift.

If you're gonna give them $25K that's one thing - but if you're going to send them $20 but put a lot of conditions on how they get to spend the $20, it'd probably make more sense to just refuse it.

gumby
01-25-2011, 9:39 AM
The incident occured at the front sliding glass doors of Thuan Phat supermarket in Westminster at the corner of Beach and Mcfadden, 6pm on the 23rd. I was there with my vietnamese wife and we had just paid for groceries and were attempting to leave when the incident went down.

stix213
01-25-2011, 10:24 AM
Other than donating to directly Theseus' defense, it hasnt mattered much where my donation goes. I think the board is perfectly capable of determining the best place for the funds, even if the cause isnt something that I have a direct interest in. I would hope that you would feel comfortable donating to CGF even if they chose to fund the defense of an open carry advocate, if they thought that that person had a strong enough case to make some advances for 'bear' in California.

They actually have supported the defense of at least one UOCer, who ended up getting quite a big settlement out of the PD if I remember. But the occasional support for a case that helps us is different from opening the flood gates to defending urban UOCers at large.