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View Full Version : Going on offense with our messge regarding the Arizona shooting.


nicki
01-23-2011, 4:49 PM
The talking heads want to ban our 30 round mags, like it is going to make a difference. So, what I would like to do with this thread is for us to focus on things that actually would make a difference.

Both the English and Australian gun owners made the mistake of being respectful and quiet after mass shootings in their countries and the end result is the civilian disarmament activists seized momentum to ban gun ownership.

We can't afford to be nice, we must be aggressive and on offense to protect our rights. We can influence people around us if we can effectively communicate our positions.

We don't have all the facts yet, more things will be coming out as they always do, but let me start with a few items and you guys can add.

Let's start with the shooter himself.

1. The fact that the guy had "drug convctions" shows that he is an individual who had no qualms about going outside of the law would mean that even if we had a gun ban, he would have gotten a gun.

Based on the worldwide trade on illegal arms, he probably would have gotten a machine pistol which would have meant even more casualties.

2. He had a grudge with Congresswoman Gifford for over 3 years, this was not a random act, it was pre-meditated murder.

Humans have an emotional need to have significance in their lives and this guy was a loser. The quickest way to get significance in one's life is through violence.

The media made him significant in everyone's life and the message they sent to all the other losers in our country is that if you do a mass killing, you too can be significant.

Take a look at this guys mug shot, he has a smug smile, he is on top of the world, he has impacted everyone's life.

Imagine if the media was responsible and didn't show his face, his name, just made him a blank. Imagine if they kept him a NOBODY. That would be responsible.

Since this guy has mental issues, does anyone know if he was on any prescription drugs like Prozac. Many of the past mass shooters were.

A friend of mine was given such type drugs to deal with depression and he said those drugs made him feel like committing suicide. He got of those drugs fast.

Of course this is a story that isn't hitting the news, yet it should since many people in the US do take such drugs.

In short, the Killer is responsible for his actions, but there are other factors that may have motivated him.

One thing I am pretty sure of though. I don't think that his gun or the magazine was possessed by a evil spirit that made him do the shooting.

Yet that is effectively what our opponents are arguing.

Nicki

dunndeal
01-23-2011, 4:51 PM
nicki, I've got a feeling you're going to shine in you upcoming interview. You go girl!

RP1911
01-23-2011, 5:32 PM
Did he have drug convictions or were they plread down?


If he was convicted of a drug crime, he lied on the 4473 form. Also, the NCIC check did not catch the conviction?

dustoff31
01-23-2011, 5:58 PM
Since this guy has mental issues, does anyone know if he was on any prescription drugs like Prozac. Many of the past mass shooters were.

Nicki


As far as I know he was never even seen by a shrink, much less taking any prescription meds.

On that note. I have to place a lot of responsibility on his school. They KNEW he had mental issues, and did absolutely nothing. Why not? They even sent campus police to his house to serve his parents with a notice that he was not allowed to return to school until he presented a certificate from mental health professional stating that he was not a danger to himself or others.

He was mentally ill and they knew it, but did nothing. Had he had a heart attack or an insulin reaction, would they have just told him go home and not come back until he was well? I doubt it. I'd think they would have at least called an ambulance.

Same goes for the Sheriff of Pima Co. And his parents.

motorhead
01-23-2011, 6:03 PM
he was arrested for pot. not exactly public ememy #1. there are rumors of other contacts with l.e. but, so far no documentation. iirc, there are 4 documented incidents (1 for pot).
another undiagnosed/untreated psychopath.

Ding126
01-23-2011, 6:12 PM
If guns and magazine capcities are the problem.......

Then my pencil is to blame for mis-spelled words.
Cars are to blame for drunk drivers
My Fork & spoon is to blame for weight gain

kel-tec-innovations
01-23-2011, 6:16 PM
When guns were banned in Australia and Britian Knife attack went up 300%-500% I rather be shot than stabbed. My friends work in the Emergency room and alot more patient died from knife stabs than getting shot at.

motorhead
01-23-2011, 6:20 PM
i wouldn't try to play to the drug thing. it'll come off like the msm trying to paint him, a jew, as a neo nazi. the root of that one seems to be that he had read mein kamph.
his disjointed ramblings would clearly indicate he wasn't too tightly wrapped.

dustoff31
01-23-2011, 6:29 PM
i wouldn't try to play to the drug thing.

Oh I would. Yes, he is crazy. That's strike one for not being able to legally buy a gun. He also was druggie, who was allowed into diversion and plead to a lesser offense. Had that not been allowed, it would have been strike 2.
But everyone involved dropped the ball.

The current gun laws are sufficient. The system works just fine. But someone has to turn it on.

wash
01-23-2011, 6:35 PM
One more thing Nicki, I know that you support marijuana decriminalization so blaming drugs here might come back to haunt you later.

The problem is crazy, drugs were just a symptom.

Mental health issues come with a big stigma along with gun prohibition. Perhaps without the stigma he would have gotten help and could have been kept away from guns. If the system worked better he might have even received the treatment he needed to remove the threat of violence.

d4v0s
01-23-2011, 6:49 PM
The simple fact is this,

We are all given choices in this world, and democracy is not the best way to go about solving these issues, 51% of the population can take away 49% of others rights.

An example i use is this, if tomorrow we decided that we should enslave all blacks, and 51% of america was all for it; Does that make it right? no not at all. We have the 2A for a reason, and I am deeply sorry for the people who lost their lives, I hate that psychos continue to commit crimes with guns, and make victims of truely awesome and good people. But we were warned that with true liberty there will be consequences, and with the "easy" lives we have now its common that people become relaxed and less vigilant. We must all do our part in making sure that psychos in our own community should not be owning guns and when they do lash out, we must do the right thing and run towards the gunfire not away from it.

I am not going to tell anyone how to live their lives, but if you want to talk about banning things to stop crime, well then we all better get off the internet (thieves, scammers, child porn, credit cards stolen, fraud) we all better stop driving (drunk drivers, dangerous icy conditions, speeders, pedestrians struck in crosswalks) we need to stop watching tv and offering junk food for sale in our stores.

It is not the (fing) governments job to oversee us and protect us (they have even said this) It is the communitys we live in and the people around us who are supposed to be watching out for each other.

It is hard to do, but a bipolar friend of mine just had all of her weapons taken away because this is the second time she has put a gun to her head and threatened to kill herself in my prescense, I called the cops, and played "the bad guy" in this situation so mom didnt have to do it. I am not *now* Enemy #1 to this girl, but hopefully one less tradgedy will occur because of this.

uyoga
01-23-2011, 6:59 PM
There were two other shootings today that the media is sensationalizing; one at a Detroit Police Precinct, and another one at a Walmart in Washington state.

I'll bet the antis are just feasting now!

yellowfin
01-23-2011, 7:30 PM
Here's a better idea: completely disassociate lawful gun ownership and conversation pertaining to it ENTIRELY away from the actions of a lone psychopath as they are totally irrelevant. It's an outlier, totally statistically irrelevant and has absolutely nothing in common with what we 99.9999999999999999999% of us in our everyday reality. Why include it in conversation? Far better to simply bring up what typical gun ownership and use IS rather than draw attention to what it is NOT. Our REAL problem is that what gun ownership typically means to people like you and me isn't what is seen and talked about. Well, let's make it seen and talked about! You're very good at that, so keep up the good work and do more of what you do well.

d4v0s
01-23-2011, 8:29 PM
Here's a better idea: completely disassociate lawful gun ownership and conversation pertaining to it ENTIRELY away from the actions of a lone psychopath as they are totally irrelevant. It's an outlier, totally statistically irrelevant and has absolutely nothing in common with what we 99.9999999999999999999% of us in our everyday reality. Why include it in conversation? Far better to simply bring up what typical gun ownership and use IS rather than draw attention to what it is NOT. Our REAL problem is that what gun ownership typically means to people like you and me isn't what is seen and talked about. Well, let's make it seen and talked about! You're very good at that, so keep up the good work and do more of what you do well.

Well said, I attended an IDPA shoot this saturday, I was literally surrounded by almost 100 people all carrying guns, and loaded magazines. Not once was i worried or did i feel unsafe. We need to show people how great a feeling gun ownership is and how awesome the people and community are. And like the Antis, we all wish that our weapons were purely used for sporting purposes.

Another point i saw in another thread (not my idea) was that telling someone that they cant carry a gun to protect themselves is the same as telling every anti gun person that they must shoot and kill any intruder that enters their home. The Anti will squirm under the stress that they feel upon being told that, and we all feel the same stress when they try and take that right away from us. No one will ever tell me i cant defend my wife and kids, some take karate, some move to better neighborhoods, and some of us keep arms to decide and commit to never becoming a victim, a statistic, and a tradgic news headline. And i will never change my stance on that. I would sooner find a new country than disarm and allow the criminals to run rampant.

LadyShooter
01-23-2011, 8:32 PM
I was at the playground with my children when a friend brought up this very topic. My friends know I am a shooter. Instead of going on the offense my response was "Yeah what a nutcase. I heard the case might be going to San Diego. Too bad it won't go to Texas, at least we know they would execute the nut job." Was able to completely divert the attention of gun ownership. Many of the other mom's standing around were nodding their heads yes.

dennab
01-23-2011, 10:18 PM
Being so close to the shooting, there has been a frenzy of local media hype and blame on "lax AZ gun laws".

It's so easy to point a finger and blame something or someone - it's just not that easy - but the media likes easy, buttoned-up stories. They report on symptoms, not of core issues.

IMHO - this too shall pass. The noise will die down to a low murmur, then completely fade away. The knee jerk reactions from both sides will also cease. Life goes on, despite tragedy.

Our rights as gun owners will ebb and flow with public opinion and the tug-of-war between the two sides will continue.

As for me and my house - I will continue to enjoy a great sport, continue to contribute to the NRA, continue to purchase guns and ammo as I desire, abide by the laws of my State and ready myself in the event of personal danger. I will not buy into the hype and rhetoric of a mass confiscation of our guns and ammo or any other paranoia. Overreacting is not an option for me.

Hunt
01-24-2011, 12:00 AM
items
1. School and teachers knew this guy was seriously sick --no action taken.
2. Parental, family responsibility for getting this very sick man help.
3. He was probably already on psyche meds and bad reactions to them may even have contributed to his psychosis, if so, this fact will never reach the light of day.
4. This very, very sick man will get the death penalty for sure, George Bush while supposedly sane, murdered hundreds of thousands in a war for profit, he gets a library and a book deal.

Lrchops
01-24-2011, 12:10 AM
The guy was reported to actually be a left wing follower. He followed the teachings of Hitler and MArx. He was a total nut case. Not a registered voter. A single insane person fixated with Gifford. She was not left enough for him. He had socialist ideals according to the investigation and materials found in his personal property. The media does not talk about the shooters past because it is apparently left wing socialist in nature.

This shooter did not reference any conservative talk shows, did not vote republican, was not a member of the NRA, was rejected by the military. HE was a failure who had a plan to kill. Has nothing to do with the rest of us.

juicemansam
01-24-2011, 12:15 AM
Both the English and Australian gun owners made the mistake of being respectful and quiet after mass shootings in their countries and the end result is the civilian disarmament activists seized momentum to ban gun ownership.
They made the mistake of falling for "civility." Only animals would dare defend themselves, then they get put down. Civility seems to mean: "don't raise your voice, don't talk back, take your pill, and shut the hell up, the grown-ups are talking."

pitchbaby
01-24-2011, 1:58 AM
The media made him significant in everyone's life and the message they sent to all the other losers in our country is that if you do a mass killing, you too can be significant.

Take a look at this guys mug shot, he has a smug smile, he is on top of the world, he has impacted everyone's life.

Imagine if the media was responsible and didn't show his face, his name, just made him a blank. Imagine if they kept him a NOBODY. That would be responsible.



Nicki, this has been the thing that disturbs me the most about this whole thing... they should have left his name and face out of this... there is no reason why we should be practically idolizing this punk other than to fulfill the same twisted fascination that people have when they rubber neck at the scene of an accident. All it causes is a traffic jam and other accidents.

The same applies here... we don't heal as a nation, others will do the same, and as a result it just makes it all worse for those who want to advance the cause of freedom.

yellowfin
01-24-2011, 4:57 AM
Nicki, this has been the thing that disturbs me the most about this whole thing... they should have left his name and face out of this... there is no reason why we should be practically idolizing this punk other than to fulfill the same twisted fascination that people have when they rubber neck at the scene of an accidentOh there is a reason they do it: to push the gun ban agenda. They want the sheep to see this and have it firmly etched in their minds. Putting a name to it makes it stick. We want to minimize the damage, but they want to maximize it. Also, and this is bad to say but it's true, they gain so much from incidents like this in terms of ratings and power that they WANT to encourage more mass shootings by glorifying them.

Snaps
01-24-2011, 6:27 AM
Ask them if the gunman walked up and only killed the Congresswomen, would it still be a tragedy?

If they say yes, well then if one person dying is a tragedy, just like "33" peoples ability to die is a tragedy, then limiting magazines does nothing.

And since they're "not here to take our guns away", then they should just move on...

geeknow
01-24-2011, 7:06 AM
Ladyshooter,

Good response.

G