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five.five-six
08-22-2006, 7:27 PM
I am interested in having a 20" barrel fluted and maby cut down to 18" anyone know who can do it? my gun is just too heavy

bu-bye
08-22-2006, 7:51 PM
The guys from White Oak ( http://www.whiteoakarmament.com ) should be able to do anything you need. They do a GREAT job of fluting. Most companies will give you the fluted look but the weight is still up there. My buddy had his 20" heavy barrel fluted by WOA and it is lighter then my 16 barrel which is not. nice bunch of guys too. Give them a call.

grammaton76
08-22-2006, 7:53 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is fluting and why is it desirable?

bu-bye
08-22-2006, 8:08 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is fluting and why is it desirable?

Fluting is cutting valleys along the barrel to lighten the barrel a help with cooling as there is more surface area to dispense heat.

http://www.staffordsales.com/gm18ssflute.jpg

C.G.
08-22-2006, 8:11 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is fluting and why is it desirable?

Supposedly it lightens the barrel and gives more cooling surface, so the barrel stays cooler. However, if not designed and machined properly, it can also weaken the barrel.
Personally, I am not sold on it and you will read many pro and against comments about fluting.

blkA4alb
08-22-2006, 8:14 PM
Fluting is the process of machining lightening cuts into the barrel to reduce weight and increase the surface area to aid in cooling. White Oak does a very fancy spiral fluting.

blkA4alb
08-22-2006, 8:15 PM
Supposedly it lightens the barrel and gives more cooling surface, so the barrel stays cooler. However, if not designed and machined properly, it can also weaken the barrel.
Personally, I am not sold on it and you will read many pro and against comments about fluting.
Well its basic thermodynamics that an object with a larger surface area will dissipate its stored heat quicker, and removing metal from the barrel will lighten it. But yes, there is debate about the drawbacks verses the advantages.

ohsmily
08-22-2006, 8:33 PM
Fluting a barrel after it has been rifled can cause problems (accuracy problems). Do some research and then decide if you want to have it done.

C.G.
08-22-2006, 8:37 PM
Well its basic thermodynamics that an object with a larger surface area will dissipate its stored heat quicker, and removing metal from the barrel will lighten it. But yes, there is debate about the drawbacks verses the advantages.

I understand thermodynamics; the reason I said supposedly is that it is not that simple. From I've able to gather one also needs to go to a heavier barrel in order to maintain strength, thus the weight reduction and heat dissipation is not overly pronounced over a regular barrel, if at all. Nevertheless, I am not a gunsmith nor do I design or test barrels, so I am only following arguments written, hopefully, by people that know more than I do about the subject.

bu-bye
08-22-2006, 8:59 PM
Fluting a barrel after it has been rifled can cause problems (accuracy problems). Do some research and then decide if you want to have it done.

I didn't know there was any other way to do it:confused: . I know WOA does the fluting after the barrel is rifled.

Boomer1961
08-22-2006, 9:04 PM
Don't forget that the lighter barrel will by mass have less heat capacity, translation "It will heat up faster" thus producing a different heat issue.

For rapid fire the heavy barrel is prefered. The science of fluted versus non-fluted for even the same mass of barrel is debateable as the experts come down on both sides. Larger mass (heavier barrel) seems to be the best answer (short of a water cooled jacket) for small arms heat issues.

Throughout the years the fluting of automatic rifles has been tried then dropped then tried again. It's value is debateable even though common sense says larger suface area, greater heat transfer to air. If it was a slam dunk answer then all of the general purpose machine guns would have such a barrel. Remember our own Thompson Submachinegun originally had them (the flutes went radially and were called fins) but the US military found that the additional cost of manufacturing the barrel with them was not justified by any measureable increased cooling that made a difference in battle so it was dropped for mass produciton.

Now the issue of strength versus weight, there seems to more agreement among the experts as it involves simple engineering principles and also supported by a legion of users experience. A properly fluted barrel of same weight as one that is not, is stronger by a fair amount that is noticeable.

As for fluting after the barrel is rifled, I hear that is a really really bad idea for a thumbtacker, which I am sure is what you want if you are going to spend this kind of money. I have heard that several manufactures of fluted barrels do this process after rifling hence why alot of users who purchase such are disappointed with accuracy. Of course this is all from internet chat that I have read on these forums (take that for what it is worth!:eek: ) as I am no where near an expert on this, just please do listen to what ohsmily said before me.

If I really wanted one of these I would just buy from a reputable dealer/manufacture as you will probably find this is cheaper than buying a barrel then getting it fluted anyways. It does add a "gee-wiz that's really cool" look to your custom build so why not just buy a new fluted barrel then sell your old one to recover costs.

GOOD LUCK!:D

ocabj
08-22-2006, 9:06 PM
I didn't know there was any other way to do it:confused: . I know WOA does the fluting after the barrel is rifled.

Yes, ohsmiley's information comes straight from custom barrel makers. Custom barrel makers turn down ('profile') the barrels before cutting the rifling because of the stresses put on to the barrel during the profiling process. Fluting puts the same kind of stresses on the barrel. Thus, custom barrel makers will profile and/or flute before cutting the rifling.

five.five-six
08-22-2006, 9:16 PM
well it is a 20"stainless bull and it is a bit front heavy on the lower. apperently it is less detrimental to the accuracy if the fluting is done with more lighter passes. i just don't want it to be so darn heavy. I just picked it up for $525 with a 1 shot dpms lower some *****in tack driver iron sights, an ace fixed stock, trigger work full floater, tactical c-handle and a ergo grip... I just could not turn it down for that price...never fired... and I am selling the sights for $100.. it is very usable... just a bit front heavy

Ubergeek
08-22-2006, 10:27 PM
well it is a 20"stainless bull and it is a bit front heavy on the lower. apperently it is less detrimental to the accuracy if the fluting is done with more lighter passes.

Give this guy a holler:

www.ar15barrels.com

ivanimal
08-22-2006, 11:32 PM
Supposedly it lightens the barrel and gives more cooling surface, so the barrel stays cooler. However, if not designed and machined properly, it can also weaken the barrel.
Personally, I am not sold on it and you will read many pro and against comments about fluting.

It actually adds stability to the barrel, but it is not for everyone. I would just buy a new barrel and have what you need already made. Machining a barrel after the fact will change harmonics and balance. Depending on the process it can change the trueness of a barrel. When a barrel is tapered it is dificult to see.
I own 2 rifles with fluted barrels The 22-250 is the one that gets used the most. I like the heat dispensation qualities of the fluting. It has a bull barrel so weight is not the reason I have a fluted barrel at all. The other is a 10-22 and it just looks nice, it is no more accurate than its 2 brothers in my safe.

C.G.
08-23-2006, 12:20 AM
It actually adds stability to the barrel, but it is not for everyone. I would just buy a new barrel and have what you need already made. Machining a barrel after the fact will change harmonics and balance. Depending on the process it can change the trueness of a barrel. When a barrel is tapered it is dificult to see.
I own 2 rifles with fluted barrels The 22-250 is the one that gets used the most. I like the heat dispensation qualities of the fluting. It has a bull barrel so weight is not the reason I have a fluted barrel at all. The other is a 10-22 and it just looks nice, it is no more accurate than its 2 brothers in my safe.

It can add stability, but generally with a larger diameter barrel. Harmonics is a certainly important and should be taken into account (last link). The reason I am skeptical is that even the best barrel makers disagree (Krieger will flute, Shilen will not. for example). The way I see it, there hasn't been enough research done to be conclusive, but as pointed in the third article by Gale McMillan:
"I always felt that they shoot
in spite of being fluted but as long as shooters will pay a barrel maker
$1.50 a minute to flute one you will see them on the line."


http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/RealBenefitsBarrelFluting.asp

http://www.fulton-armory.com/fluting.htm

http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/barrel_fluting.html

http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question8

More technical:

http://www.varmintal.com/aflut.htm

ivanimal
08-23-2006, 12:29 AM
I am genuinely impressed C.G.:D

PIRATE14
08-23-2006, 4:32 PM
Fluting cuts down on weight.....

Increased cooling maybe.......maybe not....

Stronger...yes

If done properly it has no effect on accuracy.

Now, I normally tell people if you have a barrel and have been shooting it don't mess with it ie., cut, thread, flute.....more than likely it will shoot a little bit worse than you started off with.....sell it and thatn get what you really want.....you'll be much happier in the end.