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EBWhite
08-22-2006, 3:40 PM
I am looking at building an AK single shot pistol. Start with an AK pistol receiver, a krinkov parts kit. The krinkov kits do not have the gas port drilled which is good. Now, build the AK pistol into a detachable mag, single shot only config. Would this be legal to retain the barrel handguard and detachable mag and pistol grip?

what do you guys think?

eb

NeoWeird
08-22-2006, 3:56 PM
I vaugely remember reading a little thing on the DOJ website that stated the whole single shot exemption only applied to COMPLETE pistols and it made reference to the Contender style of pistols. I would think it would have to be built out of state first before it could be brought in and would probably need a riveted support across the mag well to prevent a magazine from ever being put into it.

Just my take on it though, and it's most likely wrong.

wayoutwest
08-22-2006, 4:07 PM
I dont think you will be able to, you would be building a non-tested (unsafe) handgun (ie. not on the appoved list)

maybe also by having the mag outside of the pistol grip, but as a single shot maybe so.

But the kit would work as it wasnt drilled for the gas block.

EBWhite
08-22-2006, 4:14 PM
I could not be busted for building an unsafe handgun. Single Shot pistols are exempt from that. I'm curious if i can still have handgaurds and a detach magazine with a single shot config pistol.

anotherone
08-22-2006, 4:18 PM
I had been contemplating the idea of using a DPMS single shot AR-15 lower to build up a single shot AR-15 pistol. However, you would need someone out of state to build up the pistol and then sell it to you as a complete single shot pistol (you cannot buy pistol frames period in California).

Even so, it gets kind of iffy because I think I recall that 6.5 inches is the maximum barrel length for the single shot exemption. Good luck trying to find an AR-15 or AK-47 barrel and gas system that's less than 7 inches. But if you could find it and have someone assemble it and sell it to you, you might just be able to pull this off.

Too much trouble for what's it's worth.

blkA4alb
08-22-2006, 4:23 PM
Here is the law,

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

And regarding the safety testing,

(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

(e) As used in this section, a "semiautomatic pistol" means a pistol, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, the operating mode of which uses the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to extract a fired cartridge and chamber a fresh cartridge with each single pull of the trigger.

grammaton76
08-22-2006, 4:24 PM
I could not be busted for building an unsafe handgun. Single Shot pistols are exempt from that. I'm curious if i can still have handgaurds and a detach magazine with a single shot config pistol.

As I interpret it, single shot is just that - only one shot. The Contender is a break-open pistol. An AK pistol could probably be made to be compliant, but you'd need to basically get a magazine to the point where it won't hold ANY rounds. Go ahead and leave the gas system in place in this configuration. Make sure the bolt-hold-open works. Then:

1. Drop loose bullet into chamber, tap charging handle to send it forward.
2. Fire round. The round will eject and the bolt will hold open, ready for the next round.

That would be a really neat auto-extraction pistol, which would still be limited to single shot.

blkA4alb
08-22-2006, 4:24 PM
Even so, it gets kind of iffy because I think I recall that 6.5 inches is the maximum barrel length for the single shot exemption. Good luck trying to find an AR-15 or AK-47 barrel and gas system that's less than 7 inches. But if you could find it and have someone assemble it and sell it to you, you might just be able to pull this off.

Read my post, the minimum barrel length is 6", not the maximum.

6172crew
08-22-2006, 4:48 PM
I though you were able to manufactor your own firearm as long as its not a AW.

There was a guy who built his own 1911 awhile back.

EBWhite
08-22-2006, 4:51 PM
As I interpret it, single shot is just that - only one shot. The Contender is a break-open pistol. An AK pistol could probably be made to be compliant, but you'd need to basically get a magazine to the point where it won't hold ANY rounds. Go ahead and leave the gas system in place in this configuration. Make sure the bolt-hold-open works. Then:

1. Drop loose bullet into chamber, tap charging handle to send it forward.
2. Fire round. The round will eject and the bolt will hold open, ready for the next round.

That would be a really neat auto-extraction pistol, which would still be limited to single shot.

So you cannot have a magazine with a single shot pistol?

blkA4alb
08-22-2006, 4:58 PM
So you cannot have a magazine with a single shot pistol?
Well no where in the law does it specify whether it can or cannot. If you read my post with the actual law text, it only talks about semiauto.

grammaton76
08-22-2006, 5:03 PM
So you cannot have a magazine with a single shot pistol?

If my understanding of "single shot" is correct, no mag. Them specifically referencing the magless thompson contender lends further weight to it, since there's no mag on those things.

Now, a mag that only holds the round you're about to chamber, might be a different story, so long as you can't have one in the chamber and then close the bolt on the next one (thus having two semi auto shots).

grammaton76
08-22-2006, 5:06 PM
Well no where in the law does it specify whether it can or cannot. If you read my post with the actual law text, it only talks about semiauto.

Precisely. What we're stuck with here, then, is them having NOT defined 'single shot'. This term doesn't appear anywhere else, as pertaining to handguns.

I personally believe that if they'd meant to allow us to use magazines, that they would've talked about 'manually cycled' handguns or something like that...

blkA4alb
08-22-2006, 5:11 PM
Precisely. What we're stuck with here, then, is them having NOT defined 'single shot'. This term doesn't appear anywhere else, as pertaining to handguns.

I personally believe that if they'd meant to allow us to use magazines, that they would've talked about 'manually cycled' handguns or something like that...
Possibly, I still feel that you could use a magazine. However if I was doing the build myself I would just use the method of throwing a round in the chamber and firing. :cool: I got pretty fast at that since thats what I did with my AR for the first 100 rounds or so :D .

grammaton76
08-22-2006, 5:20 PM
...and this makes me think about starting up a Gunwiki page for "words we wish the CA Department of Justice would define unambiguously"...

anotherone
08-22-2006, 8:28 PM
So lets say that I wanted to build up a carbon fiber single shot AR-15 pistol using the DPMS single shot lower and a CARBON-15 pistol upper. Would I be allowed to lawfully purchase the DPMS single shot lower as a single shot pistol or would I have to buy a complete pistol? If you could get the bolt catch to work, this would actually be a fairly cool (if not expensive) single shot .223 handgun.

Mr. Ed
08-22-2006, 8:28 PM
Brownells sells the "Original Bob Sled" single shot AR magazine designed for High Power competitions. They sell for about $40 a piece. You can only fit one round in at a time.

anotherone
08-22-2006, 8:32 PM
http://www.sportingconversions.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=LR-05V

This AR-15 lower has no magazine. Would it be possible to purchase it and register it as a single shot handgun under the exemption?

grammaton76
08-22-2006, 11:37 PM
http://www.sportingconversions.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=LR-05V

This AR-15 lower has no magazine. Would it be possible to purchase it and register it as a single shot handgun under the exemption?

Well, the first thing you would have to do is see if DPMS has any single-shot lowers which were registered as pistols on their books.

You can't take a rifle-registered receiver and build a pistol out of it. As folks have said, once a rifle, always a rifle.

I have a hunch that it's going to be hard to find any one-shot lowers which were built as pistols at the factory.

On the other hand, there are pistol-registered AR lowers which are presently being sold by folks in CA - I believe Mega has a pistol-marked lower. The thing is, the one shop I know of that does it is transferring them (via the DROS form) as rifles. That may or may not trigger the 'once a rifle, always a rifle' thing. Everything I've read says that what matters is (A) whether or not it's ever been built as a rifle and (B) what the manufacturer's logbook says.

I have yet to run across anything hard-set in stone, that a bare receiver which has been transferred at one point as a rifle, may never be built as a pistol.

rocknut
08-23-2006, 6:39 PM
So what are the chances of bushmaster getting their closed magwell ar's approved here as pistols? They sound legal but I don't know what it takes for them to be approved by CA.

grammaton76
08-23-2006, 6:44 PM
So what are the chances of bushmaster getting their closed magwell ar's approved here as pistols? They sound legal but I don't know what it takes for them to be approved by CA.

Well, if their magwells are closed off and they won't accept a magazine at all (safest definition of single shot pistol), then it doesn't need to be listed at all. Some subset of our willing OLL transfer dealers would probably be happy to transfer you one.