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View Full Version : When to Use Deadly Force- Dog Attack


Handgun1
01-23-2011, 8:14 AM
Interesting situation came up last night while my wife and I were walking our 5 lb. Yorkie on a leash while I was open carrying my Sig P226 with a loaded magazine on my other hip with 10 rounds of Winchester Ranger SXTs:


As we rounded a corner out of our condo complex onto a residential street, out of the corner of my eye I saw two dogs (possible an English Bulldog and another that was a Pitbull mix) come running at us. As soon as I noticed them, they were right next to us and I pulled up my dog by his leash and said, "Watch out honey" to my wife. The dogs didn't seem extremely aggressive but jump on me and snap at my dog as I held up out of reach. We shooed the dogs away and they ran about 10 feet ahead of us.

I set my Dog down so that he could enjoy his walk when the dogs decided to come run back over to us. I first unsnapped my holstered pistol and then picked up my dog and put him out of reach of the dogs. This time one of them jumped up on my wife (although still didn't appear to be aggressive, but standing on his hind legs was about as tall as her.) We again shooed them off and they ran about 15 feet in front of us so I again set my dog on the ground.

The next thing that happened was both dogs came running back towards us and as I tried to pick up my dog, one of them got to him before I count and he got knocked to the ground. Before I could pick him up the more aggressive Pitbull grabbed him by his neck. The first thing I wanted to do was un-holster my pistol, load it and fire a round off into the dog, but I took my hand off my gun knowing that I would go to jail and face hefty legal expenses since my life was not in danger.

What I decided to do was use physical force to try and save my dog from what appeared to be imminent death. I straddled the dog from behind and began to pry open his mouth so that he would let go of my dog, but It didn't seem to be helping. After about 30 seconds of prying, I resorted to punching the dog in the face and after roughly 5 blows, he let my dog go. My Yorkie ran into the street where the other dog chased him. My dog ran back towards me (and unfortunately the Pitbull as well) where he was once again grabbed by the dog, but this time by the rear of his back. Again I tried to pry open his jaws unsuccessfully and almost immediately resorted to punching the dog in the face. The Pitbull let my dog go and this time my wife was able to get to him before being attacked again.

In the chaos I lost a sandal and my dogs leash came off. At this point in time I realized that I had multiple bite marks on my hand and was bleeding. In total I had 7 bite marks, one of which was more of a gash under the joint of my middle finger. We called animal control and since they were closed (this was around 10:15pm) we were transferred to the local PD. They said they would send someone out to look for the dogs, but told us to follow up with animal control tomorrow.


They say hindsight is 20/20 and there are a couple of things I would have done differently. 1) I wouldn't have put my dog back on the ground until the other dogs were gone and 2) Had the dog gotten a hold of him anyways, I would have pistol whipped the dog to start instead of trying to play nice.

Was I correct in my line of thinking that it would have been illegal to fire my weapon at the dog within city limits? The only way I would have been legally allowed to fire would have been if I had fear for my or my wife's life or great bodily injury?

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/princeleo56/DSC_0150.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/princeleo56/DSC_0153.jpg

glbtrottr
01-23-2011, 8:38 AM
Unfortunately your life being in danger is up for debate, shooting dogs is illegal in many municipalities, and things get dramatic fast.

Pulling up what the other dogs wants is a recipe for you getting bitten. How do I know? I'm currently sporting a 3-4 inch deep bite from a Tibetan Mastiff wanting to dance with my German Shepherd in a public place, and my wanting to avoid conflict by having my dog tear the mastiff to shreds. Should I have let mine go? Sure - if I wanted to pay for vet bills.

In hindsight, I should have picked up the mastiff, kicked the crap out of him and his owner's arse if he intervened...but that's another lesson to learn.

cdtx2001
01-23-2011, 8:47 AM
I found out through experience that a good swift kick with my boot stopped a dog charging me from wanting to have anything else to do with me.

Also, a spray of some kind works pretty good too.

I wouldn't want to do something lethal to a dog unless the dog is doing something lethal to me or someone else. Case in point, the Fairfield, CA dog attack from last year.

glbtrottr
01-23-2011, 8:56 AM
I found out through experience that a good swift kick with my boot stopped a dog charging me from wanting to have anything else to do with me.


Just a heads up - dogs display all kinds of aggression - some dominant, some fearful, etc.

A dog that would simply body slam to show dominance, to be encountered by a swift kick and stick, may get stimulated to come back and give a very real and motivated bite....ymmv

FatalKitty
01-23-2011, 9:14 AM
my shoes are worth more than any dogs life - sorry but if a dog comes at me, it's going to doggy heaven

but since these dogs were just attacking your pet - meh... punching it in the face seamed like an OK thing to do

samonya
01-23-2011, 9:15 AM
Just my 2 cents, but I carry pepper spray and a blade when I walk my non aggressive basset hounds around a neighborhood where pit bulls always seem to run out from an open back yard gate. My dogs have never gotten bit, but I would have no problem gutting a attacking dog if the pepper spray failed. Using a pistol to stop a dog just sounds like a lot of drama would come after the fact. I cant stand people who have large strong dogs and dont have them well trained/restrained.

Kid Stanislaus
01-23-2011, 9:20 AM
Pepper spray seems like a wise thing to pack in the future. I'm not too sure how legal it is but a dog that puts a bite on my dog and won't let go is going to get his jugular vein opened up as quickly as I can get my Benchmade into action.

Drivedabizness
01-23-2011, 9:34 AM
Hindsight is always 20/20 but I would've turned right around and gone home (you had just come out of your complex). 2 dogs is a tough nut to crack, your dog is helpless and you have your wife with you - too much for you to handle if you're not willing to drop the hammer.
It's not the answer I like but given your (understandable) desire not to experience the drama involved with neutralizing the threat, it may have been your best choice.
Oh and, sandals are probably not a very utilitarian choice of footwear.

yelohamr
01-23-2011, 9:53 AM
When we walk our terrier, I open carry. The pistol is for coyotes that frequent the neighborhood.
The stun gun is for the larger dogs that become a problem. So far, a German Shepard and a boxer have been introduced to "Mr. Electricity". If they are aggressive and close enough to bite, they're close enough to zap.

gunsmith
01-23-2011, 10:18 AM
Sandals!!?? about the most useless and dangerous footwear you can wear.
( unless of course you're a Roman legionnaire with a sword and a shield )

The pit bulls thought you were a hippie and were teaching your dog a lesson.

You need to get comfortable with boots, intermediary defensive weapons, & killing critters that are attacking you and drawing blood.

jamesob
01-23-2011, 10:22 AM
Unfortunately your life being in danger is up for debate, shooting dogs is illegal in many municipalities, and things get dramatic fast.

Pulling up what the other dogs wants is a recipe for you getting bitten. How do I know? I'm currently sporting a 3-4 inch deep bite from a Tibetan Mastiff wanting to dance with my German Shepherd in a public place, and my wanting to avoid conflict by having my dog tear the mastiff to shreds. Should I have let mine go? Sure - if I wanted to pay for vet bills.

In hindsight, I should have picked up the mastiff, kicked the crap out of him and his owner's arse if he intervened...but that's another lesson to learn.

there are exemptions to shooting dogs, its the same for shooting a human.

blackbox
01-23-2011, 10:29 AM
I keep a "keychain" sized container of pepper spray clipped to the dog leash...

Good on you for not shooting the dog, that would have opened up a whole can of worms.

12voltguy
01-23-2011, 10:30 AM
Dads buddy near lost a finger from infection of nasty dog bite, keep your hands outa dogs mouth....

donny douchebag
01-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Depends on who you are. Search youtube for "cop shoots dog".

The Shadow
01-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Last Thursday night I had a persistent pitbull cross the street from where it lives and attempt to attack me. Having trained with dogs, the first thing I did was square off with it and then get aggressive back. As it stood in the middle of the street barking at me, I moved toward it and it backed away. When I attempted to walk away, it attacked again, at which time I took out my pepper spray and hosed it. That discouraged the dog and it ran back to its house where it began rubbing its face in the dirt to get the pepper spray off.

Dogs by nature are cowards that will only attack what they think is weaker than them (kind of like gang bangers). In fact dogs must be trained to attack and get over their fear of being attacked. So the best thing a person can do is first, never run away, that is a sign of weakness and only encourages the dog to chase and press its attack. Next, square off with it and show it you are prepared to fight. If you have a stick, pole, golf club, etc, make sure it's between you and the dog. Pepper spray is great against dogs because not only does it irritate their eyes, but it really screws up their nose. One they've been pepper sprayed, that's usually the end of the attack and they go away. Generally, it's not necessary to shoot a dog unless you suspect they are rabid. In that case, you are doing the dog and society a favor by euthanizing it.

Dutch3
01-23-2011, 10:52 AM
I don't think I would have put my hand in a pit bull's mouth. I once watched a pit bull lock onto another dog, and its owner eventually got it to let go by throwing a brick at it.

The pit bull was so worked up it took about 15 minutes before the owner could get near it to calm it down and get it back in his yard.

I think my first reaction would have been a few swift kicks to the ribcage, but I don't wear sandals. Once the dog drew blood, it's hard telling what I would have done.

I hope the dog is located, as I hear rabies shots are quite painful.

ipser
01-23-2011, 10:54 AM
Last Thursday night I had a persistent pitbull cross the street from where it lives and attempt to attack me. Having trained with dogs, the first thing I did was square off with it and then get aggressive back. As it stood in the middle of the street barking at me, I moved toward it and it backed away. When I attempted to walk away, it attacked again, at which time I took out my pepper spray and hosed it. That discouraged the dog and it ran back to its house where it began rubbing its face in the dirt to get the pepper spray off.

Dogs by nature are cowards that will only attack what they think is weaker than them (kind of like gang bangers). In fact dogs must be trained to attack and get over their fear of being attacked. So the best thing a person can do is first, never run away, that is a sign of weakness and only encourages the dog to chase and press its attack. Next, square off with it and show it you are prepared to fight. If you have a stick, pole, golf club, etc, make sure it's between you and the dog. Pepper spray is great against dogs because not only does it irritate their eyes, but it really screws up their nose. One they've been pepper sprayed, that's usually the end of the attack and they go away. Generally, it's not necessary to shoot a dog unless you suspect they are rabid. In that case, you are doing the dog and society a favor by euthanizing it.

Great advice.

gunsmith
01-23-2011, 11:04 AM
this guy shot a dog that was attacking his dog, NV law is different but all he may face is shooting within city limits.
http://www.kolotv.com/news/headlines/Man_Shoots_and_Kills_Dog_May_Face_Charges_11399769 4.html

Funtimes
01-23-2011, 11:07 AM
Once a dog is attacking you or your property, it is game on.

Me personally? Any dog that bites me, or makes a legitimate attempt to bite, is treated as a legitimate threat. This obviously is only in reference to unleashed animals. If someones dog was on a leash and our animals were not getting along, we could pull them apart. Based on the marks by your hand, I am pretty sure it would classify (If a person was doing) as assault.

One thing, if you don't want to shoot the dog, carry an ASP.

magsnubby
01-23-2011, 11:07 AM
My niece used to raise pit bulls. She told me never try to pry open a pit bull's mouth. Either grab it by the collar and choke it out or use your bare hands and choke to out.

gunsmith
01-23-2011, 11:09 AM
Once a dog is attacking you or your property, it is game on.

Me personally? Any dog that bites me, or makes a legitimate attempt to bite, is treated as a legitimate threat.

One thing, if you don't want to shoot the dog, carry an ASP.

An ASP is a felony in California!!!!

Goldseeker
01-23-2011, 11:18 AM
As far as I know, "deadly force" is only used in a human context.

And carrying a club / bat / golf club against dogs or mtn lions is purportedly legal, but a felony if intended to be used against humans.
_

Velocity
01-23-2011, 11:22 AM
An ASP is a felony in California!!!!

OK, I am a dummy, what is an ASP please?

garandguy10
01-23-2011, 11:34 AM
OK, I am a dummy, what is an ASP please?

A ASP is a extendable, telescopic club. From what I understand, they are legal only for LEO's and Security Guards with a baton license in California.
I beleive they are a felony for joe citizen to possess or carry around while walking your dog.

Knauga
01-23-2011, 11:59 AM
One aggressive dog may be dangerous, multiple aggressive dogs are very dangerous. Dogs are pack animals and are much more bold in a pack, circling and trying to get inside your defenses. Wear heavier shoes when walking your dog, carry a heavyish walking stick. You can use the walking stick as a club or as something to cram down a dogs throat.

Don't carry something that is clearly a club. A walking stick is perfectly legal.

nhanson
01-23-2011, 12:05 PM
Swift kick in rib cage deters most dogs. I you were able to straddle the animal.....where was you pocket knife? Spyderco, Benchmade, Gerber.....anything with a lock blade and insert into ribcage. Same effect a gun, lest risk to public and an unleased dog is pretty open season if agressive.

RandyD
01-23-2011, 12:06 PM
When police officers are threatened by a menacing dog, they are authorized to use their firearms. I usually hear of 1-2 accounts per year of police shooting dogs. This is consistent with what I was taught when I went through the police academy (23 yrs ago). Here in San Diego we have had a couple of severe cases of unleashed dogs mauling people. I like the idea of carrying pepper spray or a stun gun.

Carnivore
01-23-2011, 12:22 PM
Pit bull + attack = dead especialy the second it bit you.

Damn the consequences I would have shot it. Should make that damn breed illegal. Had to stab one about 10 years ago that was trying to attack my moms dog. Took out the corroded artery and he bleed out. Owner sued me but lost. We have leash laws here, mine was on one his was loose. end of story.

1lostinspace
01-23-2011, 12:24 PM
Get some pepper spray it's cheaper than Lawyer fees.

Californio
01-23-2011, 1:04 PM
I was walking my dog in an off leash park which has a house near by. A yellow lab came into the park from the adjacent house and was threatening me, barring its teeth at me, not my dog. I talked loudly at it and at the same time reached into my left cargo pocket for pepper spray, never breaking eye contact. The lab came very close to getting sprayed. I also wear boots, I figure the boots, pepper spray and my large dog, given the command, would have been enough. He retreated on his own. Little dogs and sandals? I would use pepper spray, discharging a firearm is not really a smart idea. Also putting your dog back down after the first encounter was just egging them on, dogs operate on different logic.

Laser Sailor
01-23-2011, 1:18 PM
There are a few ways to fight off a dog attack.

OC (pepperspray) is very effective, in fact pepperspray was originally designed for postal carriers to use against dogs.

One thing I've learned from a vet friend is that if a dog is attacking you, and you have the opportunity to pull it's front legs sideways out from it's body. This is extremely painful for dogs, like being put into an strong armbar for humans.

Lastly deadly force rules don't technially apply to dogs, however I'd use them anyway with regards to a firearm. I'd only shoot a dog if I was in fear for my life, for me this means that the dog has already bitten me and is locked onto my arm or pressing the attack.

1859sharps
01-23-2011, 1:19 PM
ok. Please, please, please think this through. In theory, if your attacked by an animal I agree shooting is a legitimize option.

HOWEVER. EVEN if the law backs you up, you hit and kill the dog, what if you shoot more than one bullet trying to hit the dog(s)? where did those bullets go? into someone's house? into someone you didn't see because you were shooting at moving targets? Potentially the law may back, support and clear you of shooting the dog, but you could be in hot water for what your other bullets do/go.

I have been in this same situation, had to pry my small dog out of the mouth of a pit bull. THERE are other options to shooting. trying to hit a moving target is hard, hyped up animals even more so. discharging a weapon may not be the best or even the most effective plan in situations like this. particularly in urban environments.

Not saying never do it it's wrong (assuming the law allows it), just saying please think this through and realize there are other more effective options.

MudCamper
01-23-2011, 1:23 PM
While it would be good if you could shoot the attacking dogs, I agree, it's not worth the legal hassles.

Wear boots or hard-toed shoes. Kicking is better than punching.

Carry pepper spray. Hose down the attacking dog's face.

If those fail, then shoot it or gut it with a large knife.

My 2 cents.

B Strong
01-23-2011, 1:31 PM
This has been discussed many times here on CGN, a websearch will bring up the threads.

Yes, you can use deadly force against an aggressive dog.

No, you do not need to wait for the animal to do serious bodily injury to you, a loved one or your animal.

Yes, you can end up in criminal or civil court if you use deadly force and injure an innocent party.

No, the animal does not have to be loose on your owned or leased premises to be considered a threat.

B Strong
01-23-2011, 1:34 PM
ok. Please, please, please think this through. In theory, if your attacked by an animal I agree shooting is a legitimize option.

HOWEVER. EVEN if the law backs you up, you hit and kill the dog, what if you shoot more than one bullet trying to hit the dog(s)? where did those bullets go? into someone's house? into someone you didn't see because you were shooting at moving targets? Potentially the law may back, support and clear you of shooting the dog, but you could be in hot water for what your other bullets do/go.

I have been in this same situation, had to pry my small dog out of the mouth of a pit bull. THERE are other options to shooting. trying to hit a moving target is hard, hyped up animals even more so. discharging a weapon may not be the best or even the most effective plan in situations like this. particularly in urban environments.

Not saying never do it it's wrong (assuming the law allows it), just saying please think this through and realize there are other more effective options.

A dog will attack on a straight line vector, and the pit that was ordered to attack me was an easy shoot.

I did not face charges either criminal or civil, and I'd do the same again in a similar situation.

ZombieTactics
01-23-2011, 2:21 PM
Just as an aside, a handheld stun device is almost 100% effective against any dog, even trained attack dogs and police dogs. This is well known among both criminals and K9 unit trainers/handlers alike.

It's an extremely traumatic experience to the canine psyche. Once stunned by such a device ... even "junkyard" dogs trained for extremely aggressive and violent behavior become worthless for their intended purpose ... for the rest of their lives.

Ratman12
01-23-2011, 2:39 PM
My feeling is the OP is partially at fault here,, why in the heck would you put a piece of bait in front of two larger dogs TWICE.. Would you have done that if it was coyote? Heck no! Learn to control your dog and be its master,, I have a large dog that can be very aggressive that I have absolute control over at all times..I almost always assume that when I walk my dog that there will be an off leash dog somewhere on the walk and come prepared for that.

If you are Alpha Male with your dog chances are the other dogs will sense that as well. My dog will heel and sit while I take care of business with what ever unleashed dog comes up on us, unless I let her go... she whines and growls but that's as far is it gets!

My dog is always heeled at my side never trying to tow me nor does she ever walk in front of me unless I command her to... When walking my dog I never let another dog come up to my dog unless it is under control by the owner on a leash period... It makes me mad when dogs walk their masters no matter what size of dog it is..( worst offenders are the usually the small dogs on retractable leashes).. sorry for the rant but this touched a nerve of an ex dog-bait paperboy that learned the hard way how to deal with aggressive dogs

advocatusdiaboli
01-23-2011, 2:55 PM
Just a heads up - dogs display all kinds of aggression - some dominant, some fearful, etc.

A dog that would simply body slam to show dominance, to be encountered by a swift kick and stick, may get stimulated to come back and give a very real and motivated bite....ymmv

Just an FYI on dog breeds: Rottweilers were bred by the Romans for cattle herding—they use their body to herd unlike Border Collies. So they aren't good for herding horned cattle—they'd get gored.

advocatusdiaboli
01-23-2011, 3:00 PM
Dogs by nature are cowards that will only attack what they think is weaker than them (kind of like gang bangers).

That's not cowardice—it's prudent for an animal that lives and dies by its fitness to hunt—which is what the dog's wolf instincts tell it to do. Most carnivores will avoid attacking prey if it might injure them—wounded solitary carnivores starve, wounded pack carnivores eat last, breed last—and usually not at all. the pack might even eat them if the hunting goes poorly. Wolf instincts dominate dogs behavior—the DNA of a wolf, coyote, and dog are so similar that they can breed. In fact, genetic testing on eastern US coyotes found an average of 25% domestic dog DNA in most of them.

advocatusdiaboli
01-23-2011, 3:12 PM
Just as an aside, a handheld stun device is almost 100% effective against any dog, even trained attack dogs and police dogs. This is well known among both criminals and K9 unit trainers/handlers alike.

It's an extremely traumatic experience to the canine psyche. Once stunned by such a device ... even "junkyard" dogs trained for extremely aggressive and violent behavior become worthless for their intended purpose ... for the rest of their lives.

Really? I'd like to believe it but there is a video on YouTube showing a cop taser a running Pit Bull—it doesn't stop running and runs without missing a step right out of the frame. I carry Bear Pepper spray for Grizzlies you can buy at REI when we walk our Springers—I want a full strength put 'em down chemical defense.

TheDeej
01-23-2011, 3:45 PM
My father just had a pitbull incident in his backyard recently where the neighbors pitbull got through the fence and had our 15 year old shepard/collie mix down by the throat in the blink of an eye. Hid pistol was at the smith so he ran out and booted that dog in the head as hard as he could and it ran back to it's own yard. We had that dog since I was 10 and I would've shot that pitbull where it stood. My father made sure to let the owner know that if it happened again his pitbull would be dead.

Dogs are family, but if another owner isn't responsible enough to restrain their dog then they shouldn't have any recourse for what may happen in a defense situation. I hate the majority of pitbull owners because they are the most ignorant morons that have no business owning a dog. They don't know the first thing about training an animal that powerful.

Handgun1
01-23-2011, 4:42 PM
My feeling is the OP is partially at fault here,, why in the heck would you put a piece of bait in front of two larger dogs TWICE..

They say hindsight is 20/20 and there are a couple of things I would have done differently. 1) I wouldn't have put my dog back on the ground until the other dogs were gone

I appreciate your feedback Ratman12, but first of all I admitted that I should have done things differently when looking back on the situation. Secondly, I posted this story in the LEGAL FORUM to ask what my legal grounds would be for shooting the dog. It's easy to sit back, read someone else's story and say, "This is what you should have done." We live in a condo (also mentioned in the story) and the only time my dog gets to take a piss is when we walk him; hence the reason I wanted him to walk.

nicki
01-23-2011, 5:02 PM
If you are carrying a gun, you should also carry something else for those situations where use of a gun is EXCESSIVE force.

Dog owners are responsible for controlling their dogs and if their dogs are running around off their property and attacking people, then it is game on.

I have a scar on my right elbow from when someone's dog ran off their property and just bit me in the elbow. Had I been carrying any kind of weapon at the time, I would have used it.

I called Animal control and never saw that dog again.

You can't reason with a animal, the only thing a animal understands is force.

Pointing a gun at a animal is kinda useless because the animal has no concept of what a gun is until you pull the trigger and actually hit it.

At that point it doesn't matter.

Nicki

Dutch3
01-23-2011, 5:52 PM
It's easy to sit back, read someone else's story and say, "This is what you should have done." We live in a condo (also mentioned in the story) and the only time my dog gets to take a piss is when we walk him; hence the reason I wanted him to walk.

Agreed, it is too easy to be an armchair expert.

Think about it though. You took your dog for a walk on a leash, within the scope of the law. The dogs that attacked you and your family were off leash, running loose. Outside of the law.

In my experience, dogs running loose are doing so because their owners neglect to keep them contained on a regular basis. Often they are continuous offenders, due to the lack of responsibility by their owners.

When such a dog becomes aggressive and draws blood while illegally outside of his owner's control, his fate is sealed. When the dog becomes a threat to you, you have no choice but to eliminate that threat using whatever means are available.

If the owner raises issue, remind him that it is not your responsibility to keep his dog where it belongs. It is his responsibility.

If the dog's owner neglects his responsibility and forces it upon you, then you have the right to terminate the situation.

Quinc
01-23-2011, 6:13 PM
Pit bull + attack = dead especialy the second it bit you.

Damn the consequences I would have shot it. Should make that damn breed illegal. Had to stab one about 10 years ago that was trying to attack my moms dog. Took out the corroded artery and he bleed out. Owner sued me but lost. We have leash laws here, mine was on one his was loose. end of story.

One of the less educated things I have read here...

Get on your Netflix account and rent American Pit Bull.

NightOwl
01-23-2011, 7:31 PM
Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

-Your wife could carry as well, would be a good idea if you were incapacitated/unable to bring your gun to bear for her defense for whatever reason.
-You're right, the dog should have stayed picked-up, by one of you.
-Dog noses are sensitive, if they're not responding to your face punches try the nose, if safe to do so. Also, they have eyes, you have thumbs, just sayin'.
-It's legal in CA to carry a sword (not concealed, check local regulations). It's not always legal to carry a walking stick if you don't need it (billy club laws). You could carry a sword on your walk to have an option other than your firearm. :p At the most basic level it's simple to use. Poke stuff with the pokey end. A walking stick would, honestly, be of better use, but there's much greater risk of jail time from walking around with one.
-I hear good things about citronella spray for dogs. Could be worth looking into.
-Reinforced toe boots are handy too.
-I like dogs, but have had an agressive one at gunpoint before while I extricated myself from the situation. I did discover that once you call a cop, and the cop explains to the owner that their dog nearly got shot, they tend to keep their dog confined to an appropriate location for it in the future.

epilepticninja
01-23-2011, 7:35 PM
Pepper spray seems like a wise thing to pack in the future.

Pepper spray works wonders on aggressive dogs. Not sure if its the chemical in it, or the shock of getting sprayed. When I was a popo, I hosed the shizz out of quite a few dogs, and it worked everytime.

gunsmith
01-23-2011, 7:36 PM
My feeling is the OP is partially at fault here,, why in the heck would you put a piece of bait in front of two larger dogs TWICE.. Would you have done that if it was coyote? Heck no! Learn to control your dog and be its master,, I have a large dog that can be very aggressive that I have absolute control over at all times..I almost always assume that when I walk my dog that there will be an off leash dog somewhere on the walk and come prepared for that.

If you are Alpha Male with your dog chances are the other dogs will sense that as well. My dog will heel and sit while I take care of business with what ever unleashed dog comes up on us, unless I let her go... she whines and growls but that's as far is it gets!

My dog is always heeled at my side never trying to tow me nor does she ever walk in front of me unless I command her to... When walking my dog I never let another dog come up to my dog unless it is under control by the owner on a leash period... It makes me mad when dogs walk their masters no matter what size of dog it is..( worst offenders are the usually the small dogs on retractable leashes).. sorry for the rant but this touched a nerve of an ex dog-bait paperboy that learned the hard way how to deal with aggressive dogs


you speak the truth, most dog owners are owned by their dogs not vice a versa. may I ask where you learned how to rain your dog so well?

gunsmith
01-23-2011, 7:38 PM
Pepper spray works wonders on aggressive dogs. Not sure if its the chemical in it, or the shock of getting sprayed. When I was a popo, I hosed the shizz out of quite a few dogs, and it worked everytime.

LOL, it worked on San Francisco's bum population for me when I lived there

1859sharps
01-23-2011, 8:15 PM
I posted this story in the LEGAL FORUM to ask what my legal grounds would be for shooting the dog. It's easy to sit back, read someone else's story and say, "This is what you should have done." We live in a condo (also mentioned in the story) and the only time my dog gets to take a piss is when we walk him; hence the reason I wanted him to walk.

First, if you want "take it to the bank legal advice, hire a lawyer", don't ask here.

Second, what you should have done comments, in my opinion, very appropriate. you just had a self defense situation. it would be in your best interest to review and take input from others who have faced similar situations so you can improve your response should this happen again.

I have been in your shoes. Like I already said, I too have had to rescue my small dog from a pit. and while that particular incident was the most serious, I have actually had to rescue my dog from labs more often. any dog can become a problem, it's not just pits.

If you learn to read dogs even a little bit, you can often defuse the situation and greatly reduce the odds of needing actually shoot. While I completely get/know/understand there are dogs out there (regardless of breed) that your only option will be to shoot, in the close to half a dozen out of control dog encounters I have had while walking my dog, including the time with the pit, I have actually never wished I had my gun.

I strongly believe in self defense, I strongly believe in a person's right to own a gun for self defense and to use it when reasonable and necessary. But just because you can, doesn't always mean you should and in your particular situation regardless of the law, I don't think you needed to shoot. without a video tape to review everything objectively it isn't possible to see what mistakes where made other than putting your dog back down too soon, but I would bet there were other mistakes. most likely ones you weren't even aware of.

So, please don't just dismiss any "you should have" comments out of hand. some will be complete BS contributions, but some might be worth giving some thought.

While there are always exceptions to the "rule", you will be surprised how many domestic dogs that are out loose, out of control etc. that you can deal with using means other than lethal.

Lrchops
01-23-2011, 8:25 PM
If you pick up a dog in the presence of other dogs, it causes serious problems most people do not understand. Most people do not understand dog behavior. There are domination and pack pecking order issues. Dogs want to fight when they are restrained but if they are unrestrained usually there is no problem. The energy put off by the owner may also complicate dogs reactions to one another. If you freak and pick up your dog, the other dogs will sense your fear or anger and also sense your dogs reaction to protect you. Thus a fight may insue.

IF you just let the dogs be unrestrained, generally there is no problems. Once you understand dog behavior, you will not have to worry about attacks and/or shooting a dog.

I have been a cop for over 25 years and I have only had to shoot one dog that was trained to attack cops. I have never had problems with pit bulls, or any other dog for that matter because I know how to handle them and do not over react. Other cops I work with shoot dogs regularily because they have no idea how to deal with dogs properly. Dogs sense fear especially when you are in thier territory. They respond to your fear by barking to protect thier interest.

LEarn dog behavior before you start pumping them full of lead!!!! If you are shooting dogs, then you do not have a clue on how to deal with dogs.

Dutch3
01-23-2011, 8:28 PM
When I was a popo, I hosed the shizz out of quite a few dogs, and it worked everytime.

Good to know. I will have to pick some up.

I seem to be surrounded by neighbors that neglect to keep their dogs where they belong. It's too bad I will likely end up spraying the dogs instead of the neighbors.

-D

1859sharps
01-23-2011, 8:40 PM
My feeling is the OP is partially at fault here,, why in the heck would you put a piece of bait in front of two larger dogs TWICE.. Would you have done that if it was coyote? Heck no! Learn to control your dog and be its master,, I have a large dog that can be very aggressive that I have absolute control over at all times..I almost always assume that when I walk my dog that there will be an off leash dog somewhere on the walk and come prepared for that.

If you are Alpha Male with your dog chances are the other dogs will sense that as well. My dog will heel and sit while I take care of business with what ever unleashed dog comes up on us, unless I let her go... she whines and growls but that's as far is it gets!

My dog is always heeled at my side never trying to tow me nor does she ever walk in front of me unless I command her to... When walking my dog I never let another dog come up to my dog unless it is under control by the owner on a leash period... It makes me mad when dogs walk their masters no matter what size of dog it is..( worst offenders are the usually the small dogs on retractable leashes).. sorry for the rant but this touched a nerve of an ex dog-bait paperboy that learned the hard way how to deal with aggressive dogs

I agree with the essence of what your getting at. that being people need to train their dog and not let them run up to other people/dogs. it's rude AND more important, can be the cause of problems that people think are "out of the blue". dogs generally do not "attack" or bit out of the blue. there is often a warning that most people miss.

When a dog is on leash they are completely at our mercy. if they are feeling threatened their flight option has been eliminated. which leaves only fight. fighting is "expensive" and risky in nature. But on leash, that is their only option if we (the humans) aren't paying attention to what is going on around us.

There is NO reason dogs who don't know each other to go up an meet and greet. particularly if the humans involved haven't agreed this is ok. The dogs are not being "harmed" in anyway by not being allowed this spontaneous social encounter. if anything you are reducing the odds of a dog fight and or other issues.

All it takes is a bit of training for some dogs, others it comes naturally. And you can achieve this without trying to be "alpha" to your dog. the vast majority of people out there haven't a clue how a real "alpha" dog behaves anyway, and even if you do, trying to emulate that not being a dog your self is a complete wast of time. Dogs respond to calm, consistent, and fair treatment from us. They want to know what to do, what their job is. if you teach that, make it rewarding for them (reward could be as simple as getting to go on a walk, to sniff that bush, or play fetch) they will do what you want. no "alpha" mumbo jumbo required.

as for where the dog walks. if your dog walk in front of you, do you know that means? nothing. the dog is walking in front of you. that is it. no other hidden meaning. So simply having the dog in front of you, behind you, at your side is all personal preference. I actually prefer my dog to walk in front of me for many reasons. The important thing is he keeps the leash loose and he responds to me when I need him to.

Kid Stanislaus
01-23-2011, 8:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Shadow wrote: "Last Thursday night I had a persistent pitbull cross the street from where it lives and attempt to attack me. Having trained with dogs, the first thing I did was square off with it and then get aggressive back."

I've had success with that technique, be the alpha male.

Kid Stanislaus
01-23-2011, 8:55 PM
There are a few ways to fight off a dog attack.

OC (pepperspray) is very effective, in fact pepperspray was originally designed for postal carriers to use against dogs.

Many years ago when I was reading meters for So. Ca. Edison Co. I sprayed a large doberman. He immediately stopped in his tracks, spread his legs and pee'd on the ground. No more problem. I'm a big believer in pepper spray. ;)

Kid Stanislaus
01-23-2011, 9:04 PM
I hate the majority of pitbull owners because they are the most ignorant morons that have no business owning a dog. They don't know the first thing about training an animal that powerful.

A lot of them appear to be suffering from testosterone poisoning. They want a big bad dog but won't go to the trouble of getting it trained. :(

1859sharps
01-23-2011, 9:04 PM
If you pick up a dog in the presence of other dogs, it causes serious problems most people do not understand. Most people do not understand dog behavior. There are domination and pack pecking order issues. Dogs want to fight when they are restrained but if they are unrestrained usually there is no problem. The energy put off by the owner may also complicate dogs reactions to one another. If you freak and pick up your dog, the other dogs will sense your fear or anger and also sense your dogs reaction to protect you. Thus a fight may insue.

IF you just let the dogs be unrestrained, generally there is no problems. Once you understand dog behavior, you will not have to worry about attacks and/or shooting a dog.

I have been a cop for over 25 years and I have only had to shoot one dog that was trained to attack cops. I have never had problems with pit bulls, or any other dog for that matter because I know how to handle them and do not over react. Other cops I work with shoot dogs regularily because they have no idea how to deal with dogs properly. Dogs sense fear especially when you are in thier territory. They respond to your fear by barking to protect thier interest.

LEarn dog behavior before you start pumping them full of lead!!!! If you are shooting dogs, then you do not have a clue on how to deal with dogs.

picking up a dog can be risky. but not for the reasons you give.

dominance is one of the most misunderstood terms in dog behavior there is. dominance simply describes who won access to a resource. who wins depends on how much an individual wants it more. and wanting it more has a lot to do with the resource in question and the dogs in question. and who wins this time might not be the same next time even among the same two dogs.

dog packs are organizations of convenience, they aren't like the close family based packs seen in wolves. if the pack leader is a bully, pack members will drift away. if the pack no longer provides a benefit to a individual dog, that dog will no longer "hang with the pack".

back to the risk of picking up your dog. the risk is more with your dog panicking and biting you or scratching you or jumping out of your arms and being seriously injured.

The risk have nothing to do with your dog trying to "protect you" or "dominance". In fact, if a dog is attacking you and your dog, I guarantee you it's the rare dog who's first thought is "I mush protect my human"

While not all dogs respond this way, my dog actually calms down when I pick him up when other dogs are around that are becoming pests or making him feel uncomfortable. I have even had him "ask" to be picked up at the dog park when a bully dog is pestering him. Though the more I have worked with my dog, the more confidence he builds, the less he wants to be picked up.

However, you are absolutely right in that generally speaking a dog who is restrained risks going into a fight mode. which is why Ratman1's comments about not letting your dog run up to another dog uninvited is spot on. leashes are also "restraints". enough so that you can prevent dogs from meeting and greeting in proper dog manager. which isn't a bee line strait at each other. that is an "attack". Most dogs learn that another dog approaching in a strait line with their human isn't an attack. but some dogs never do and some does struggle with this. which is why letting strange dogs meet without clearing it with the humans involved is a bad idea. it's inviting trouble.

thayne
01-23-2011, 9:57 PM
Yet another "when can I shoot a dog" thread. Sheesh! We seriously need a sticky for this.

Keep your gun in its holster and use pepper spray.

Im a little concerned with all the tough guys wanting to shoot dogs around here.

stitchnicklas
01-23-2011, 10:12 PM
in the city of riverside it is legal to shoot vicious animals that are attacking you,your animal,your property.

why are going to carry for protection if you are attacked/injured and do nothing.

all it takes is 1 bite to you or your wife for 1 of you to lose your lives.
if you won't shoot carry a tazer or pepper spray...

Lrchops
01-23-2011, 11:34 PM
picking up a dog can be risky. but not for the reasons you give.

dominance is one of the most misunderstood terms in dog behavior there is. dominance simply describes who won access to a resource. who wins depends on how much an individual wants it more. and wanting it more has a lot to do with the resource in question and the dogs in question. and who wins this time might not be the same next time even among the same two dogs.

dog packs are organizations of convenience, they aren't like the close family based packs seen in wolves. if the pack leader is a bully, pack members will drift away. if the pack no longer provides a benefit to a individual dog, that dog will no longer "hang with the pack".

back to the risk of picking up your dog. the risk is more with your dog panicking and biting you or scratching you or jumping out of your arms and being seriously injured.

The risk have nothing to do with your dog trying to "protect you" or "dominance". In fact, if a dog is attacking you and your dog, I guarantee you it's the rare dog who's first thought is "I mush protect my human"

While not all dogs respond this way, my dog actually calms down when I pick him up when other dogs are around that are becoming pests or making him feel uncomfortable. I have even had him "ask" to be picked up at the dog park when a bully dog is pestering him. Though the more I have worked with my dog, the more confidence he builds, the less he wants to be picked up.

However, you are absolutely right in that generally speaking a dog who is restrained risks going into a fight mode. which is why Ratman1's comments about not letting your dog run up to another dog uninvited is spot on. leashes are also "restraints". enough so that you can prevent dogs from meeting and greeting in proper dog manager. which isn't a bee line strait at each other. that is an "attack". Most dogs learn that another dog approaching in a strait line with their human isn't an attack. but some dogs never do and some does struggle with this. which is why letting strange dogs meet without clearing it with the humans involved is a bad idea. it's inviting trouble.

Ok, makes sense!

shtr45acp
01-23-2011, 11:52 PM
#7 has it right. Spray 'em, the stick 'em (if you have to). If you discharge a firearm in ANY residential area, the fuzz will be all over you, you will be hooked and booked and will loose your gun and a whole lotta $$$$$.00 Remember, we are in the land of the looney left wing liberals, who will stop at nothing to get your guns and money.

paul0660
01-24-2011, 12:05 AM
If you are carrying a gun, you should also carry something else for those situations where use of a gun is EXCESSIVE force.

Not true, unless you think carrying two cell phones (in case one craps out), two pepper sprays (in case one craps out), and two bodyguards (in case one wimps out) is necessary.

If you shoot, the attacker has met a threatening standard that may or may not seem reasonable to a jury, but certainly met your standard. Keep it simple. The "why didn't you use this instead" argument is always going to win, so don't give it a chance.

IMO.

kel-tec-innovations
01-24-2011, 12:24 AM
http://www.2dsecurity.com/files/1680673/uploaded/dog-open%20mouth.jpghttp://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcReXTA2xWiGLPtfFrpWr_vNhYT6vpjHh LxMtKxwkpEmZ9UuVEtQ&t=1

Using a gun: what if I miss? and hit something unintentionally? or worse shoot through the dog and ricochet and hits you or your dog? What if someone heard the shots comes out with their gun and shoots you? You might face fines etc.

I carry pepper spray everywhere I go. Its California, a pepper spray would save you alot of hassle. By all means if I lived in another state I'd shoot that dog then shot the owner LOL

resonance
01-24-2011, 1:09 AM
A can of wasp spray will usually stop most anything in your path....and is much cheaper....

thayne
01-24-2011, 1:24 AM
A can of wasp spray will usually stop most anything in your path....and is much cheaper....

Its also illegal to use as a weapon.

Ratman12
01-24-2011, 1:35 AM
OP you did post in the legal forum for the legal aspects of having to shoot the dogs,, I guess I am saying as others have as well, if you knew dog behavior well enough then shooting them wouldn't even be on the table,, pepper spray then a call to the police for aggressive dogs.. and you protect your dog ( not trying to rag on you, just advice)
I learned a lot on handling dogs as teenager on my paper route from an old WW2 vet that was a dog handler and had 2 big beautiful German Sheppards so well trained it was scary.. his advice saved my *** more than once from loose dogs.. ( I had alot of cool people on my bike route but it was hilly and filled with dogs/ crazy people.. not the best area)

I also used to train/race with a guy ( South African ) that trains guard dogs and he helped with my dog when she was a puppy, I finally took a dog handling course about 5 years ago with her,an American Akita,( you want to talk stubborn and strong as hell).

The course was 6 weeks and not cheap ( also took my goofy lab/great dane mix) near Fallbrook Ca. We would board them there for a week for a refresher course every year.

My big fur ball will not get out of her dog bed at night (unless commanded) and sleeps at the foot of our bed, she has full run of the back yard during the day,, almost took down the fence to get the cable guy who needed to peek over and take a look at her while he was wearing his tool belt ( the noise set her off ).. very stupid idea... But when she is on a leash she works for me..

There is a point of debate on the Alpha male and I do believe in it,, and no you never have to yell or beat your dog to get the compliance that you require of your animal, ( snacks and treats and a good belly rub work great on dogs /me too).. Sharps 18.. has some great advice as well,, take what you want from this, but realize sometimes those aggressive dogs that you may have shot really weren't that aggressive just miss-judged initially .. (I know easy to say after the fact), but I have had more then I care to count run ins with loose aggressive dogs and only one time did I really fear for my life and that was a pack of feral dogs and I was armed, and I got them to loose interest in me as a food item, pure bluffing on my part,, soft but firm voice no direct eye contact but not shying away either and never turn your back on any dog you dont know!.. Dang its late..thought I drank decaf tonight.. stupid Jets



Next time you go to the Vet with your pup,, watch how many people actually have control over their dogs,, I bet less than 5%.. and I still have issues with my other goofy happy go lucky dog..she doesnt have a mean bone in her body but forgets how big she is and can knock over the small child/person just by saying hi.. I also had a Min Pin ( Miniature Pinscher) that gave me fits around the house but on a leash a great jogging partner and CHICK MAGNET but he thought he was a much bigger dog then he really was..

pitchbaby
01-24-2011, 1:38 AM
I have fallen victim to a few dog attacks over the years... with a size 14 foot... I have usually been able to resort to a few good swift kicks. Even when carrying a weapon of some kind... kicking is my personal first instinct... although... I will admit... my knife almost came out on the last one as it came uncomfortably close to my 4 yr old daughter... and a kick in this case would have kicked it into her. The dog was lucky that day that it responded to the loud and vicious sound of my voice commanding it to stop.

Had my stub nose been on my side... I don't honestly think it would have come out. I can only imagine that I would pull a gun to shoot it if I was a bloodied mess after doing all I could to fight it off by hand/blade/spray. Some would call me crazy... but I am literally more of a gun as a last resort to all other methods of defense sort of person.

Snaps
01-24-2011, 6:35 AM
Unfortunately your life being in danger is up for debate, shooting dogs is illegal in many municipalities, and things get dramatic fast.

Tell that to the police who seem to get a kick off shooting peoples pets lately.

JeepFreak
01-24-2011, 6:40 AM
this guy shot a dog that was attacking his dog, NV law is different but all he may face is shooting within city limits.
http://www.kolotv.com/news/headlines/Man_Shoots_and_Kills_Dog_May_Face_Charges_11399769 4.html

Wow! That was a horribly skewed news report!
Billy

sd_shooter
01-24-2011, 6:50 AM
I face aggressive dogs almost weekly when out walking. People normally keep their dogs locked up or leashed, but sometimes they forget and the dogs get loose.

I now carry a keychain pepper spray and a big 55" hardwood walking stick from Big5. Looks like this:

http://cutlerybarn.com/images/ws632-50-55-60.jpg

B Strong
01-24-2011, 8:03 AM
Just as an aside, a handheld stun device is almost 100% effective against any dog, even trained attack dogs and police dogs. This is well known among both criminals and K9 unit trainers/handlers alike.

It's an extremely traumatic experience to the canine psyche. Once stunned by such a device ... even "junkyard" dogs trained for extremely aggressive and violent behavior become worthless for their intended purpose ... for the rest of their lives.

Not so much in my experience.

First of all, you must be well within the bite area to use a stun gun, and second, you need to maintain contact for the stun to be effective - dogs don't cooperate - third, depending on the area the stun gun comes into contact with, the stun may well have no effect.

All of these while a well muscled beast is trying to get their teeth into you.

I'll pass.

1859sharps
01-24-2011, 9:13 AM
There is a point of debate on the Alpha male and I do believe in it,, and no you never have to yell or beat your dog to get the compliance that you require of your animal, ( snacks and treats and a good belly rub work great on dogs /me too)..

wee bit off topic. the point of debate is around do dogs even see us as "dogs" and thus a pack member. or is the dog/human relationship more "symbiotic" or maybe even a bit "employee/employee". The other point of debate is even IF dogs see us as "dogs" and thus "pack members" can we effectively imitate "dog language".

Since humans don't look anything like dogs, nor do we smell like dogs, I personally lean towards the side that says dogs know we aren't dogs. thus trying to "be a dog" to your dog (ie alpha) is counter productive. your time is better spent teaching your dog what you expect out of your dog in a given situation. this means taking time to train your dog. something a lot of people don't do which is one (though not the only reason) there are human/dog and dog/dog conflicts.

The other thing about "alphas" is they aren't always the male dog, and may of the things people think is a dog trying to be "alpha" is the vast majority of the time either an insecure beta or a status seeking beta type dog neither of which have that little extra something to be a true alpha. True "alpha" dogs aren't dime a dozen, but to hear people sometimes talk you would think everyone has a power hungry alpha dog out to control the world. which just isn't the case. Also, there are some dogs who could care less about being in charge or in a pack. they are perfectly happy just being an individual and by them self. at least in terms of being with other dogs.


take what you want from this, but realize sometimes those aggressive dogs that you may have shot really weren't that aggressive just miss-judged initially

An excellent point. dog aggression is also a highly misunderstood issue/behavior. in a lot of cases displays of aggression is a big bluff by a very scared dog who is hoping it's displays of aggression scare you away so it DOESN'T have to fight. which is where LRCOPS advice for learning a bit about dog behavior really comes into play.

All this isn't to say, some day you might be faced with a honest to goodness aggressive dog that lethal force is your only option. However, I hope mine and others comments help illustrate that such a situation is not going to be every time a "hooligan" of a dog comes up to you and causes a bit of trouble. Which is what I suspect happened to the OP of this thread.

Yet another "when can I shoot a dog" thread. Sheesh! We seriously need a sticky for this.

Keep your gun in its holster and use pepper spray.

Im a little concerned with all the tough guys wanting to shoot dogs around here.

makes two of us. normally ignore these threads, but for whatever reason felt like jumping in this time.

Two things I hope people take away from this one.

First, not ever "aggressive" dog is really an aggressive dog needing to be shot. often they are just "hooligans" that can be dealt with by other means. which by no means ignores or denies the chance even a "hooligan" can do damage to a small dog or child, but again there are options with these dogs other than discharging your firearm.

Second, we are starting to get momentum in fixing CCWs and such. the last thing we need are people over reacting with a dog, discharging their firearms and hurting the wrong people. and attacking dog isn't going to just sit still for you to take a nice aimed shot. they are going to be moving, lunging and trying to get in close. not the easiest target to successfully shoot. So IF you think you need to shoot, you really, really, really need to be sure there are NO other options and the dog is really and truly out to do harm.

so please, please educate your self about dogs a bit, and learn some other options for dealing with the vast majority of dogs who can be dealt with by means other than shooting them.

SwissFluCase
01-24-2011, 10:20 AM
I wonder how this little item would work:

http://www.hotshotproducts.com/page/1/Product-Detail.jsp?groupId=703&prodId=60297


Regards,


SwissFluCase

Patrick Aherne
01-24-2011, 10:40 AM
One thing, if you don't want to shoot the dog, carry an ASP.

Don't carry an ASP! It is a felony to carry a baton in California.

OC is legal and works well. This is not legal advice.

Patrick Aherne
01-24-2011, 10:46 AM
Are you getting rabies shots? You were possibly exposed to a fatal disease.

Jack L
01-24-2011, 11:07 AM
Always carry a spray made for repelling dogs. My father was a postman, in the old days when you walked a route. He kicked many a dogs a** with spray.

In Dade County I heard a pit bull owners had to have a million or two liability insurance.

Vanguard
01-24-2011, 12:26 PM
Dogs will be dogs. Expect the unexpected. Pepper spray is the way to go.

Onlyincali
01-24-2011, 12:51 PM
Have you received proper vaccines and or treatment after being bitten?

xrMike
01-24-2011, 1:16 PM
My niece used to raise pit bulls. She told me never try to pry open a pit bull's mouth. Either grab it by the collar and choke it out or use your bare hands and choke to out.Or hook a finger and rip one its eyeballs out?

Handgun1
01-25-2011, 11:31 AM
Have you received proper vaccines and or treatment after being bitten?

Not yet. Apparently a rabies vaccination takes 4 shots at $200 a piece. I don't exactly have $800 laying around especially with Uncle Sam reaching into my pockets this tax season. I'm hoping they find the dog that way they can quarantine him to see if he has rabies. I drove around looking for him and his friend yesterday with no luck. Local PD didn't find him the night of the attack either (animal control was obviously closed).

aethyr
01-25-2011, 11:45 AM
Really? I'd like to believe it but there is a video on YouTube showing a cop taser a running Pit Bull—it doesn't stop running and runs without missing a step right out of the frame. I carry Bear Pepper spray for Grizzlies you can buy at REI when we walk our Springers—I want a full strength put 'em down chemical defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px_N2WLE1yo

^^ 2000lb bull gets tasered. I think most of the time, a dog, of any size will go down if a 2000lb bull does.