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n2k
01-21-2011, 6:42 PM
L.A. councilman wants to ban 'open carry' handguns (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/la-councilman-wants-to-ban-open-carry-handguns.html)

So how will Trutanich advise the council?

maddoggie13
01-21-2011, 6:47 PM
Bring it on...law suit.

n2k
01-21-2011, 7:04 PM
The council is expected to consider Garcetti's citywide proposal Jan. 28. If approved, the motion would go to the city attorney's office for the drafting of an ordinance banning the open carrying of handguns in Los Angeles.

Lrchops
01-21-2011, 7:08 PM
Why doesn't LA Councilwomen ban street gangs instead and not worry about the honest citizens who open carry??!!! Who the hell elects these idiots!

jshoebot
01-21-2011, 7:11 PM
Can they do that? What about state preemption?

CitaDeL
01-21-2011, 7:20 PM
They can try, but I believe the state legislature has venue... not that this would change the outcome any.

CCWFacts
01-21-2011, 7:31 PM
I actually wish one of the California-level OC bans would pass. Not because I'm opposed to OC, but for tactical reasons: I would like us to be in a condition where the only option for carrying a weapon that is accessible is by 12050.

dantodd
01-21-2011, 7:52 PM
I'm sure the city attorney will tell them that the state preempts such laws. I'm fairly confident that the city council will ignore his counsel.

It really doesn't matter because by the time a lawsuit is filed and heard it will be mooted by a statewide ban.

wildhawker
01-21-2011, 8:03 PM
I actually wish one of the California-level OC bans would pass. Not because I'm opposed to OC, but for tactical reasons: I would like us to be in a condition where the only option for carrying a weapon that is accessible is by 12050.

What you're saying is that you prefer chemotherapy to a healthy, high fiber diet.

ale014
01-21-2011, 8:09 PM
=/ not going to work, unless the entire state goes into a shall issue ccw, then maybe. Still not cool though

resident-shooter
01-21-2011, 8:10 PM
breeeeeng eeeeet aawwwwn

N6ATF
01-21-2011, 8:50 PM
Too bad the city attorney can't prosecute the city council for their civil rights violations...

jpigeon
01-21-2011, 9:00 PM
Why should citizens forego a right lest they lose it???

Cali-Shooter
01-21-2011, 9:02 PM
Ahh L.A., you never fail to amuse me on how much of a failure you are. I'd like to see them try this stunt, those retards.

CCWFacts
01-21-2011, 9:11 PM
What you're saying is that you prefer chemotherapy to a healthy, high fiber diet.

To continue your analogy, I would say that this state's gun laws need a mighty dose of chemotherapy at this point.

Didn't the judge in Prieto say, "you have OC so you don't need a 12050"? I realize that's all wrong, and UOC is a very inadequate self defense method, but if it were completely off the table, would that have some benefit for future cases?

N6ATF
01-21-2011, 9:26 PM
To continue your analogy, I would say that this state's gun laws need a mighty dose of chemotherapy at this point.

Didn't the judge in Peruta say, "you have OC so you don't need a 12050"? I realize that's all wrong, and UOC is a very inadequate self defense method, but if it were completely off the table, would that have some benefit for future cases?

Fixed.

wildhawker
01-21-2011, 9:27 PM
To continue your analogy, I would say that this state's gun laws need a mighty dose of chemotherapy at this point.

Didn't the judge in Prieto say, "you have OC so you don't need a 12050"? I realize that's all wrong, and UOC is a very inadequate self defense method, but if it were completely off the table, would that have some benefit for future cases?

No.

Gray Peterson
01-21-2011, 9:29 PM
To continue your analogy, I would say that this state's gun laws need a mighty dose of chemotherapy at this point.

Didn't the judge in Prieto say, "you have OC so you don't need a 12050"? I realize that's all wrong, and UOC is a very inadequate self defense method, but if it were completely off the table, would that have some benefit for future cases?

Don't scare me like that. You're talking about the Peruta judge not the Prieto one.

DSA_FAL
01-21-2011, 9:34 PM
Someone should tell the council that they should pass an ordinance directing the chief of police to "shall issue" CCWs and I guarantee you that all the OCers will go away.

model63
01-21-2011, 9:36 PM
No.

Is it a 'No' because we haven't proven the 'right to bear arms' extends beyond the household? If we lose UOC and we clearly don't have Shall Issue CCW, we have nothing... or is your position we should be able to CCW or LOC and that any restriction is an infringement?

scarville
01-22-2011, 12:37 AM
I was reading the comments. Most are about what I expected but this one (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/la-councilman-wants-to-ban-open-carry-handguns.html?cid=6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e1d5856997 0b#comment-6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e1d58569970b) got my attention:
Garcetti is not the brightest candle on the table and I doubt he has really thought this through. If LA bans open carry then, in the wake of Heller and McDonald, defacto shall issue CCW will be a slam dunk in the Federal Courts. The only thing that kept it from happening already in San Diego County was the Judge ruled that unloaded open carry (UOC) was adequate to meet the self defense requirement (Peruta v. County of San Diego). Her decision will probably be overturned on appeal but without UOC, LA won't even be able get that far.

I don't know if Garcetti is a closet rightwing gun nut or just plain stupid. If you really want every guy with a couple of hundred dollars for the processing fees and a background check to be carrying a loaded concealed weapon, go ahead and support this dumb idea.
That sounds familiar. Maybe some of the antis are reading Calguns and plagerizing arguments?

locosway
01-22-2011, 1:54 AM
What you're saying is that you prefer chemotherapy to a healthy, high fiber diet.

I really wish people would see it this way. UOC might be wrong right now, but seriously, wishing for a ban on UOC is ridiculous.

hoffmang
01-22-2011, 9:57 AM
All,

It's not so clear that a UOC ban is preempted. Recall that many municipalities already have them in place.

-Gene

morfeeis
01-22-2011, 10:14 AM
"No one needs a gun on their hip when walking down the street or going to the store," Garcetti said. "The open carry of a handgun can be intimidating and threaten public safety."

it must be nice to live in that kind of a world, now the rest of us know better. he is sort.also saying LEO's are bully's of

forgiven
01-22-2011, 10:24 AM
^^^+1

xXBigJoeXx
01-22-2011, 11:11 AM
If the judge in Peruta thinks UOC is a reasonable means for self defense then woulden't this also apply to all LEO's in the state?? I'm just saying give me LOC like those who serve and protect or make CA shall issue or even better like AZ.....

mblat
01-22-2011, 12:10 PM
Let's say UOC isn't peemted. The logical question here "so what?". Considering school density in LA UOC isn't practical anyway (and that allows that it is practical anywhere)

I am for one won't cry about this ban. It would most certanly help any CCW case here in LA

Jack L
01-22-2011, 12:15 PM
To continue your analogy, I would say that this state's gun laws need a mighty dose of chemotherapy at this point.

Didn't the judge in Prieto say, "you have OC so you don't need a 12050"? I realize that's all wrong, and UOC is a very inadequate self defense method, but if it were completely off the table, would that have some benefit for future cases?

Indeed! Lets hope. They may be stepping on their own d**ks

brassburnz
01-22-2011, 4:33 PM
Garcett is my coincilman. I'll be writing him to ask about the unsolved murders and shooting of my friends in their own neighborhoods. Maybe those folks could have used a gun strapped to their hip.

bodger
01-22-2011, 4:55 PM
"No one needs a gun on their hip when walking down the street or going to the store," Garcetti said.


Of course not. In a city as safe as Los Angeles? Why would they.

That's what the LAPD is for, right?

What an arrogant tool.

753X0
01-22-2011, 5:24 PM
Why doesn't LA Councilwomen ban street gangs instead and not worry about the honest citizens who open carry??!!! Who the hell elects these idiots!

....welfare recipients.

yelohamr
01-22-2011, 5:32 PM
Ah, Los Angeles, the capitol of Mexico. Glad I don't have to go there.

hcbr
01-22-2011, 6:52 PM
damn why can't our council and assembly people get it right instead of fudging it up all the time. I agree if they do this, they should let CCW be easy to get then.

bodger
01-22-2011, 8:39 PM
What these asshats want in this city is no gun rights or ownership at all by non-LEO citizens.

I have no doubt that Garcetti, Bratton, Baca and the rest of them would remove all of our gun rights if they had the power to do so.

MikeH1
01-22-2011, 8:43 PM
The L.A. city council hates the idea of ordinary citizens having guns, they also love their gang members.

bertinotti66
01-22-2011, 9:01 PM
Ah, Los Angeles, the capitol of Mexico. Glad I don't have to go there.

1st time i have heard it that way LOL:D

N6ATF
01-22-2011, 9:21 PM
I have no doubt that Garcetti, Bratton, Baca and the rest of them would remove all of our gun rights if they had the power to do so.

The L.A. city council hates the idea of ordinary citizens having guns, they also love their gang members.

Yep. Why else would they have gun buybacks (evidence destruction and free immunity giveaways)? To protect criminals!

GWbiker
01-23-2011, 12:12 AM
"No one needs a gun on their hip when walking down the street or going to the store," Garcetti said. "The open carry of a handgun can be intimidating and threaten public safety."....

Damn, Garcetti had better not travel into Arizona. OC folks there might make the poor chap crap his pants.

locosway
01-23-2011, 12:26 AM
"No one needs a gun on their hip when walking down the street or going to the store," Garcetti said. "The open carry of a handgun can be intimidating and threaten public safety."....

Damn, Garcetti had better not travel into Arizona. OC folks there might make the poor chap crap his pants.

Sounds like a good reason to disarm the cops, after all, no one needs a gun on their hip.

pitchbaby
01-23-2011, 12:42 AM
What you're saying is that you prefer chemotherapy to a healthy, high fiber diet.

HAHAHA... and the hits just keep on comin' from wildhawker!

hgreen
01-23-2011, 11:03 AM
I'm curious how many people have ever open carried in LA city proper...

1 or 2?

SanPedroShooter
01-23-2011, 11:06 AM
^San pedro, I've seen it. Didnt go to well from what i recall...

MikeH1
01-23-2011, 11:28 AM
Yep. Why else would they have gun buybacks (evidence destruction and free immunity giveaways)? To protect criminals!

I also think that is one of the stupidest things they could do, it's strictly for looks, but how many guns were used in crimes that will never be solved? It's amazing the lengths the city council reps will go to protect their "constituents".

What they should really do is check for warrants on the people waiting in line! That way they would get the criminal off the street, instead of only his weapon.

Cos
01-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Why doesn't LA Councilwomen ban street gangs instead and not worry about the honest citizens who open carry??!!! Who the hell elects these idiots!

Equal idiots, I suppose? "A people get the Government they deserves", right :43:

dawgcasa
01-23-2011, 5:41 PM
These same life long liberal political incompetent hacks preside over one of the worst school districts in the nation, the implosion of MLK/Drew ("Killer Drew") hospital, and an area so infested with gangs it's driven decades of flight by law abiding citizens to the suburbs. Yup they know all about public safety.

Pig Rifle
01-23-2011, 11:02 PM
I'm curious how many people have ever open carried in LA city proper...

1 or 2?

*ahem* Yeah I've yet to have an encounter (while carrying) with the LAPD where the officer has acted reasonably, or even respectfully.

Theseus
01-24-2011, 3:21 AM
Yeah, if the only purpose for a gun is to kill, then why are police the only ones to be trusted with them?

Although I don't believe Gene is correct, I can see how it might be. . . I am not saying he is wrong. . .

An example is knives. State bans concealed carry of fixed blades, and LA bans open carry (IIRC).

J.D.Allen
01-24-2011, 11:33 AM
An example is knives. State bans concealed carry of fixed blades, and LA bans open carry (IIRC).

One more reason I love AZ. No prohibition on knife carry of any type, and complete state preemption of knife ordinances. You can carry all the concealed auto openers you like. All perfectly legal.

Untamed1972
01-24-2011, 12:29 PM
Why should citizens forego a right lest they lose it???

Because carry outside the home hasn't been firmly established as a right yet, so up this point it's been a oversight/privilege in that it is still legal. So essentially, it was legal as long as no one actually did it, but if you avail yourself of the privilege it will be taken away.

Jake71
01-24-2011, 1:51 PM
I like how the city makes it sound like the wild west.

I've been here since 1990 and have never seen anyone open carry.

Must be an election year.

Sutcliffe
01-24-2011, 3:31 PM
Bring it on...law suit.

I know calguns is not all that supportive of Open Carriers, but just might get involved, in some way, if an outright ban is declared.

rysmithjr
01-24-2011, 3:47 PM
I have a decent relationship with Councilman Garcetti. Can anyone guide me on the best ways to approach this if I can get into a discussion with him on the topic?

My usual approach is that there are a lot of things we don't *need* but make life in the US great. Also that there would be less "need" for Open Carry if the Sheriff would properly issue CCW permits to law-abiding citizens, which would help eliminate the concerns of public panic over seeing a person with a gun. Lastly, it's not the Open Carry or CCW guys that are looking to break laws.

wash
01-24-2011, 3:53 PM
What you're saying is that you prefer chemotherapy colonic hydrotherapy to a healthy, high fiber diet.
I fixed your post for you. You know, this is LA we're talking about.

Untamed1972
01-24-2011, 3:56 PM
Wouldn't such a law be a State Preemption issue?

Fate
01-24-2011, 4:11 PM
I would laugh my butt off if this passes and then the UOCers start carrying AR-15s (Israeli style). That'll really freak the nanny staters out. :43:

rysmithjr
01-26-2011, 11:36 AM
I have a decent relationship with Councilman Garcetti. Can anyone guide me on the best ways to approach this if I can get into a discussion with him on the topic?

My usual approach is that there are a lot of things we don't *need* but make life in the US great. Also that there would be less "need" for Open Carry if the Sheriff would properly issue CCW permits to law-abiding citizens, which would help eliminate the concerns of public panic over seeing a person with a gun. Lastly, it's not the Open Carry or CCW guys that are looking to break laws.

anyone?

curtisfong
01-26-2011, 11:41 AM
anyone?

PM wildhawker, he should be able to point you in the right direction

rysmithjr
02-19-2011, 4:35 PM
PM wildhawker, he should be able to point you in the right direction

that hasn't worked out yet, no responses to a couple pm's.

southernsnowshoe
02-19-2011, 5:15 PM
[I]"No one needs a gun on their hip when walking down the street or going to the store," Garcetti said. [/.



I see his logic.
Really the only time we need guns is sitting on the couch at home, which as everybody knows, is where most robberies, rapes, carjackings, and assaults occur.

ivsamhell
02-19-2011, 5:41 PM
I actually wish one of the California-level OC bans would pass. Not because I'm opposed to OC, but for tactical reasons: I would like us to be in a condition where the only option for carrying a weapon that is accessible is by 12050.

I don't share your confidence. Open carry is a form of transport, it's not carry at all. If its not defendable now, I don't expect it to be without it.

maxmayhem
02-19-2011, 11:21 PM
I am sorry to ask such a dumb question but what does the U in UOC mean? I am from indiana and just stumbled on your site looking for a way to legally transfer a gun to a guy in California...I did not realize you could open carry in California...You guys would love Indiana gun laws...our governor has given a lifetime ccw or open carry for a $125... i am gonna get my wife one soon. It sucks you guys have to deal with all the communist out there

Agro
02-19-2011, 11:24 PM
I am sorry to ask such a dumb question but what does the U in UOC mean? I am from indiana and just stumbled on your site looking for a way to legally transfer a gun to a guy in California...I did not realize you could open carry in California...You guys would love Indiana gun laws...our governor has given a lifetime ccw or open carry for a $125... i am gonna get my wife one soon. It sucks you guys have to deal with all the communist out there

Unloaded

Glock22Fan
02-20-2011, 11:57 AM
I have never been scared by seeing any person openly carrying a firearm in Los Angeles. Indeed, apart from law enforcement and uniformed guards, I don't think I have ever seen anyone openly carrying a firearm on the streets. However, I am, on an almost daily basis, terrified by the number of obvious gangbangers roaming the nieghborhood, getting in people's faces and clearly intent on committing crimes and acts of violence.

Therefore I suggest a common sense law to protect the sensibilities of people like me whereby gangbangers should not be allowed on the streets scaring the general population unless they take off their uniform and dress like responsible citizens. They should also be made to shower on a daily basis to avoid the affront to our noses.

After all, what good does it do to go around with your baggy pants hanging below your crotch? This is just an invitation for disaster and blood in the streets. Think of the children who might be traumatized by seeing the inevitable butt crack.

Furthermore, there should be a 1000 foot gang member exclusion zone around every school. Innocent children should not be exposed to the hazzard of gangbangers in their vicinity.

My next proposed bill is to force lawmakers to concentrate on matters that matter, and to stop them passing legislation that is merely grandstanding by looking for non-existent problems to fix.


Posted by: TBJWebmaster | February 20, 2011 at 11:37 AM (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/la-councilman-wants-to-ban-open-carry-handguns.html?cid=6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e2b39cd197 0b#comment-6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e2b39cd1970b)



Somewhat late in the day, but I added my comments to the article.

Uxi
02-20-2011, 1:38 PM
I have a decent relationship with Councilman Garcetti. Can anyone guide me on the best ways to approach this if I can get into a discussion with him on the topic?

My usual approach is that there are a lot of things we don't *need* but make life in the US great. Also that there would be less "need" for Open Carry if the Sheriff would properly issue CCW permits to law-abiding citizens, which would help eliminate the concerns of public panic over seeing a person with a gun. Lastly, it's not the Open Carry or CCW guys that are looking to break laws.

Say you read the article and ask if he believes if his constituents have the right to keep and bear arms or not for self defense. Ask if he would prefer open-carry or concealed-carry if it must be one or the other.

press1280
02-20-2011, 4:20 PM
I'm with some of the others on this thread that believe this is an opportunity to take care of some of the deficiencies of Peruta. If LA does pass a ban, and pop someone for UOC(and they've been denied for a CCW), would a Federal Court try to take the easy way out and drop the charges because LA violated preemption?

N6ATF
02-20-2011, 6:27 PM
Uh...