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View Full Version : Colt OLL at gun show???


Maddog5150
08-20-2006, 7:50 PM
I didnt get to go to the gunshow but a co-worker did who is still green behind the ears on legalities. He swore to me that there was a booth selling a colt AR that was aparently welded shut like the bushmaster AR as well as other set ups with sealed mag wells. :confused: He claimed that the guy had certificates from DOJ and had some stamping on front of the mag well claiming its legalities also. The name of the booth slips my mind but arnt all colts assault rifles even if you seal the mag?
If not, Id like to get a hold of one of these :D

SemiAutoSam
08-20-2006, 7:56 PM
NO THEY'RE NOT

Said in the voice of the tall man from phantasm.

What you really want is a COLT CAR A3 HBAR ELITE

TheMan
08-20-2006, 7:57 PM
I didnt get to go to the gunshow but a co-worker did who is still green behind the ears on legalities. He swore to me that there was a booth selling a colt AR that was aparently welded shut like the bushmaster AR as well as other set ups with sealed mag wells. :confused: He claimed that the guy had certificates from DOJ and had some stamping on front of the mag well claiming its legalities also. The name of the booth slips my mind but arnt all colts assault rifles even if you seal the mag?
If not, Id like to get a hold of one of these :D

Read the thread about Evan's Gunsmithing. It is NOT an OLL. It was a Colt AW, that was brought in as an AW, and welded shut. Then Evan's puts an obscene price tag on it, and distorts the facts to try to sell it to suckers. I've heard him give his line of BS to potential customers. He is a discredit to the gun community, and I would never consider purchasing anything from him, after seeing his displays at the gun shows. YMMV.

bwiese
08-20-2006, 7:57 PM
These are welded-up Colt and Bushmaster receivers (rifles) produced by Evan's Gunsmithing (EGSW). EGSW has an AW permit from the DOJ and approval for these items - even though banned-by-name, these have a DOJ exemption since the mods are apparently permanent enough to keep DOJ happy - even though EGSW has repeatedly said the mods are readily reversible by EGSW if the owner moves outside CA.

While the DOJ has said these are OK, with approval letters, the 58 DAs could indeed have alternate opinions - esp as the original manufacturer/model combo is listed as banned.

Actually, IMHO, EGSW rifles may be more legally questionable than rifles built on true off-list lower receivers, the latter of which are clearly protected by the Harrott decision, and which have no ability to be regarded as banned by the 58 DAs or trial courts (since Harrott decision specifically prevents this).

Why you want a welded-up Colt or Bushmaster for a high price instead of an OLL built up w/quality parts for many hundreds of dollars (i.e, $450+ or more) cheaper, I simply do not know.

Maddog5150
08-20-2006, 8:28 PM
THATS THE NAME!!! My buddy had the buisiness card but i couldnt remember. hmmm. well I was mostly curious about it being a colt. My friend told me about everything the guy was telling and I disagreed then my buddy called them on his lunchbreak and the jerk on the phone kept saying that my buddy was a felon over and over again and went against what the guy at the gunshow told him. My buddy said at the gunshow they wernt that bad but when he called the place they guy qouted him $1300 for just the lower!!! :eek:

C.G.
08-20-2006, 8:52 PM
when he called the place they guy qouted him $1300 for just the lower!!! :eek:

You snooze, you loose. A year ago they were only $1000.:rolleyes: :D

TheMan
08-20-2006, 10:38 PM
You snooze, you loose. A year ago they were only $1000.:rolleyes: :D

Well, what with the high demand for legal ARs, and Evan's "fact" that all of us OLL owners are going to go to jail, $1300 seems like a bargain! ;)

azn_wrx
08-21-2006, 3:18 AM
have any of you heard of L&G Weaponry?
It seems they do something similiar www.lgweaponry.com
I picked up a flyer @ the show that was at the west end gun club table.

bwiese
08-21-2006, 3:20 AM
have any of you heard of L&G Weaponry?
It seems they do something similiar www.lgweaponry.com
I picked up a flyer @ the show that was at the west end gun club table.

That's just a FAB10 with an upper on it.

AxonGap
08-21-2006, 10:23 AM
have any of you heard of L&G Weaponry?
It seems they do something similiar www.lgweaponry.com
I picked up a flyer @ the show that was at the west end gun club table.

Larry is a great guy, top notch when it comes to custom AR builds, won't touch OLL's though. FAB-10's are his game.

pc_city
08-21-2006, 12:56 PM
While the DOJ has said these are OK, with approval letters, the 58 DAs could indeed have alternate opinions - esp as the original manufacturer/model combo is listed as banned.

Actually, IMHO, EGSW rifles may be more legally questionable than rifles built on true off-list lower receivers, the latter of which are clearly protected by the Harrott decision, and which have no ability to be regarded as banned by the 58 DAs or trial courts (since Harrott decision specifically prevents this).



The approval letters conflict with the statute and the Department does not have the authority to conflict with the statute.

bwiese
08-21-2006, 1:06 PM
The approval letters conflict with the statute and the Department does not have the authority to conflict with the statute.

Yes. DOJ is using its wherewithal, bluster, etc. to state these are no longer series members due to mods.

However, I believe they'd have to remove these from the list before they can do that.

You can't have a series member not be a series member at the same time.

blacklisted
08-21-2006, 1:39 PM
Could be another example of the DoJ exceeding or attempting to exceed its authority. I'm sure the lawyers have taken note of this in the past.

adamsreeftank
08-21-2006, 2:36 PM
Is it just me, or did the other thread about the Evans rifles go by by.

Sorry if my passing reference to someone who must remain un-named caused the hit.

And yes, the Evans rifles are probably illegal, regardless of of what any of the you know whos that work at the you know where say about the you know whats...

pc_city
08-21-2006, 6:16 PM
Is it just me, or did the other thread about the Evans rifles go by by.

Sorry if my passing reference to someone who must remain un-named caused the hit.

And yes, the Evans rifles are probably illegal, regardless of of what any of the you know whos that work at the you know where say about the you know whats...

I think you miss the point. CA DOJ is breaking the law in this case.

SemiAutoSam
08-21-2006, 6:24 PM
Correct IMO as the law does not make exceptions for the mag wells being welded up. The law states COLT AR15 and Bushmaster so unless they use the Colt CARA3 HBAR ELITE the doj is out of line when it comes to these rifles and their opinion that their legal.

artherd
08-21-2006, 10:27 PM
I continue to find it interesting that DOJ feels they have the ability to negate a codified series gun in a mere written letter, with no case law support.

This could potentially be dangerously close to the much ballyhooed "SKS Fiasco" wherein DOJ issued an opinion that a gun was not an AW and did not require registration. A court later ruled that it was infact an AW, and they had to be bought-back and destroyed because the registration window was closed.

I would not own a "series" reciever in any configuration (Fixed mag or otherwise) in today's world of law.

adamsreeftank
08-21-2006, 11:47 PM
I think you miss the point. CA DOJ is breaking the law in this case.

What law is that? I didn't know there was a law against the DOJ giving out incorrect information. Liability is another matter. I wouldn't want to be the one who signed the letter stating that the Evans guns are legal if one of the 58 DAs decides they disagree with the DOJ and goes after the sellers, buyers, ffls, etc...

pc_city
08-22-2006, 12:50 PM
What law is that? I didn't know there was a law against the DOJ giving out incorrect information. Liability is another matter. I wouldn't want to be the one who signed the letter stating that the Evans guns are legal if one of the 58 DAs decides they disagree with the DOJ and goes after the sellers, buyers, ffls, etc...

CA DOJ caused listed AWs to be imported into the state.

bwiese
08-22-2006, 1:36 PM
CA DOJ caused listed AWs to be imported into the state.

Yup, and whose method of mag affixation/closure is definitely nonpermanent and reversible.

I do wonder if Evan's is cheating and selling OLL Colt Match Elites, in which case his mods are irrelevant.

bg
08-22-2006, 3:21 PM
Said in the voice of the tall man from phantasm.
Sorry for going off topic...but Phantasm rocked. I thought
I was the only person who had ever seen it..

http://www.phantasm.com/graphics/phantasm/big-ball.jpg

adamsreeftank
08-22-2006, 3:24 PM
Yup, and whose method of mag affixation/closure is definitely nonpermanent and reversible.

I do wonder if Evan's is cheating and selling OLL Colt Match Elites, in which case his mods are irrelevant.

I don't think there are any OLL (metal) Bushmasters. Their website shows a Colt HBAR Elite, but also a bunch of police models. Some say not available. No mater how you look at it, it smells bad to me.
http://californiabushmaster.com/Models___PRICES.html