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Californio
01-20-2011, 12:52 PM
I have a constitutional question. It looks like the current banter is that no one needs more than 10 rounds from the enlightened on MSNBC.

A manufacture produces a firearm with a standard capacity magazine for that firearm. We have two 2nd cases that enforce our right to arms.

We are now seeing the anti's saying, ok you have arms but we want to make several Classes of People as to how many rounds the same arm can have depending on your class.

Military unrestricted, Law Enforcement unrestricted, Citizen restricted.

I just bought a 9mm for teaching my daughter, standard capacity for this arm is 17 rounds. CA and MA only allow 10 rounds for Citizens and unlimited for Military and Law Enforcement with this arm.

There seems to be a whole movement to define multiple classes of People in this country.

How does Due Process deal with the creation of Classes and sub-classes of Citizens in the United States? How does the 2nd address the Militia issue, the common effectiveness of a firearm is constrained when one has an arbitrary law limiting its original design parameters.

The whole attack now seems to be limit the capacity and limit the ability to purchase ammunition so you windup with nothing but a hunk of metal.

TIA

rugershooter
01-20-2011, 1:17 PM
I don't think law enforcement/military should be able to have any arms (as protected by th 2A) that I can't have. I think it creates 2nd class citizens based on the type of jobs they decide to have...decide not to join military/law enforcement= restrictions of arms.

Untamed1972
01-20-2011, 1:29 PM
what I dont like is the constant lumping of LE in with the military. If there is no conceivable reason a Legtard can think of that a "citizen" would need more then 10rds in defense of themselves against crime, then there is no reason a LE shouldnt need them either.

If there is no reason a citizen should need to carry a loaded OR unloaded gun in defense of themselves against crime, then LE doesn't need them either.

LE are NOT military, and they never should and need to stop thinking of themselves as the "other branch of the military".

"The whole attack now seems to be limit the capacity and limit the ability to purchase ammunition so you windup with nothing but a hunk of metal."

What was it that was the "last straw" that sparked the American Revolution? When they tried to seize the guns? NOPE! When they tried to seize the ammo!

rromeo
01-20-2011, 1:39 PM
LE get special treatment, not military.
Military members have unrestricted capacity only with regard to the scope of their duties. A soldier isn't allowed to purchase "large capacity" magazines for personal use.

Police officers can.

Texas Boy
01-20-2011, 2:12 PM
Don't forget retired LE too!

Seems pretty clear that this creates a special class of citizen and should be easy to bring down, but I'm not a constitutional scholar or a legal professional.

Sniper3142
01-20-2011, 3:50 PM
LE get special treatment, not military.

Which is WRONG!

Military members have unrestricted capacity only with regard to the scope of their duties. A soldier isn't allowed to purchase "large capacity" magazines for personal use.

Police officers can.

Also totally WRONG! They are NOT special in any way, shape, or form from a REGULAR CITIZEN. They should have no rights or priviledges that the regular citizens do not.

Currently, we have Special Rules for Special People. That is usually called a CLASS SYSTEM.

OC-Indian
01-20-2011, 3:54 PM
Where are the lawsuits against the state for undermining a citizens ability to defend themselves?

QQQ
01-20-2011, 4:09 PM
Which is WRONG!



Also totally WRONG! They are NOT special in any way, shape, or form from a REGULAR CITIZEN. They should have no rights or priviledges that the regular citizens do not.

Currently, we have Special Rules for Special People. That is usually called a CLASS SYSTEM.

... I think the guy you quoted was saying that's how it is, not that's how it should be.

Wherryj
01-20-2011, 4:11 PM
LE get special treatment, not military.
Military members have unrestricted capacity only with regard to the scope of their duties. A soldier isn't allowed to purchase "large capacity" magazines for personal use.

Police officers can.

I also noticed that the bill states that RETIRED LEOs can have "large capacity" magazines, but retired military cannot.

RobG
01-20-2011, 4:57 PM
Mil should get anything they want while active. LE should be issued "hi capacity" magazines before going on duty and have to turn them in at end of shift. The whole "I get whatever I want" because of LE status is BS. I have cop friends and without exception, their "fun" toys are never used on duty, only for personal use.

FiveSeven
01-20-2011, 5:11 PM
I, as a number of that "special" class that can carry higher capacity magazines.

I don't feel any superior to the rest and I agree with all of you.

slappomatt
01-20-2011, 6:11 PM
I think people here are forgetting is that high cap mag possession is a non issue and the real issue is the AW ban. High cap mags are basically useless unless you build a completely neutered gun to shoot them in.

gatdammit
01-20-2011, 6:42 PM
What was it that was the "last straw" that sparked the American Revolution? When they tried to seize the guns? NOPE! When they tried to seize the ammo!

Yeah that's right... it was the gun powder, no?

Zimz
01-20-2011, 6:51 PM
High cap mags are basically useless unless you build a completely neutered gun to shoot them in

I think most people are thinking of pistols, however I agree the AW ban is the same issue.


I am currently military. I can tell you we get issued automatic weapons and standard cap mags and body armor civilians can't get, the works. We aren't allowed to take most of it home with us, and we certainly can't take them to the local range or carry with us every day.

LEOs are different. They get issued their badge and gun, and they keep them both all the time. I can't tell you how pissed i get going into the gun store and seeing those beautiful XDm with 16 rd of .45 ACP on the shelf and the big sign that says "LEO ONLY". They really are given a different class.

When it comes to laws, there are cops, and there are everyone else. Police are supposed to be members of the citizenry who specialize in enforcing the law, not some other society who "herds sheep". We deserve the same or more defense than they do.

I appreciate all the work LEOs do for us, but I agree, we need a change in our system.

Dutch3
01-20-2011, 6:52 PM
LE deal with the aftermaths of unpleasant situations on a daily basis.

I can agree with some enhancements while on duty. Better them than me.

Veggie
01-20-2011, 7:04 PM
You die for your country but you can't have any more then 10rds.

You oppress the people for your country you get as many rds as you like.

(no offense to the upstanding police I appreciate what you do.)

Zimz
01-20-2011, 7:18 PM
LE deal with the aftermaths of unpleasant situations on a daily basis.

Nice choice of words

I can agree with some enhancements while on duty. Better them than me.

Sure, but like the military, why don't we make it an "on duty only" requirement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but LEO don't have to turn in their guns with standard capacity mags at the end of the work day. If we're going to have laws for civilians, then LE should follow those same laws while not performing duties as a LEO.

Californio
01-21-2011, 6:00 PM
Enough with the LEO Bashing, I was asking a Constitutional Question and how the Wins might dismantle the Class System setup by the Anti's. There are no High Caps, only Standard Capacity Magazines and those jurisdictions that neuter Standard Capacity Magazines for Political Purposes.

KaLiFORNIA
01-21-2011, 6:07 PM
What ever happened to "life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness"? Hi cap mags and suppressors make me happy.

NorCalDustin
01-21-2011, 6:09 PM
You die for your country but you can't have any more then 10rds.

You oppress the people for your country you get as many rds as you like.

(no offense to the upstanding police I appreciate what you do.)
You just crossed the line right there.



Enough with the LEO Bashing, I was asking a Constitutional Question and how the Wins might dismantle the Class System setup by the Anti's. There are no High Caps, only Standard Capacity Magazines and those jurisdictions that neuter Standard Capacity Magazines for Political Purposes.
No one's bashing anyone in LE (Though Veggie came close)...

It is a legitimate question though... If 10rnds is enough for me to protect myself (and I believe it is), then why do some people have the option of purchasing larger magazines to protect themselves.

hawk81
01-21-2011, 8:02 PM
All of these gun laws are only put in place to oppress the citizens(sheeple). We need to take our god giben rights back.

jpigeon
01-21-2011, 8:05 PM
There is only one class of people that should own firearms and related items. Law abiding citizens.

pitchbaby
01-21-2011, 10:02 PM
There is only one class of people that should own firearms and related items. Law abiding citizens.

Law Enforcement Officer = LEO

Law Abiding Citizen = LAC

Apparently we LAC (like saying LACK) something... our rights!

Will Goes Boing
01-21-2011, 10:19 PM
:rolleyes:

yellowfin
01-22-2011, 4:15 AM
Slaughterhouse still stands...

locosway
01-22-2011, 4:23 AM
Without the police unions support, and the support of the people, none of these laws would get passed. If the police unions think the officers are getting shafted, guess who goes out and spends money on PR to show how bad the officers have it?

I believe LEO's should be able to have the tools necessary for them to do their jobs and go home after their shift. However, they're regular citizens, civilians, not para-military as most departments think. With the advent of SWAT, and all the toys money can buy, I think the lines have really become blurred.

You can't take power away once given unless you do so by force. The people have given all their power to the LEA's around the U.S., and they did this FOR THE CHILDREN. It's time people stop giving up their responsibilities to others and started acting responsible.

chris
01-22-2011, 4:29 AM
LE get special treatment, not military.
Military members have unrestricted capacity only with regard to the scope of their duties. A soldier isn't allowed to purchase "large capacity" magazines for personal use.

Police officers can.

^^^^ this. the government give us the tools and equipment to do our duties that we are required to do. if the mission requires us to have 60 rd magazines for our weapons then the government gives it to us. we are not allowed to take magazines or purchase them for personal use as LE has been granted that exemption by the state. military is required by the Constution.


Mil should get anything they want while active. LE should be issued "hi capacity" magazines before going on duty and have to turn them in at end of shift. The whole "I get whatever I want" because of LE status is BS. I have cop friends and without exception, their "fun" toys are never used on duty, only for personal use.

well said. i believe that is what really pisses people off when LE buys things we cannot buy and use them for personal use. that pisses me off now if it is for duty use only then i don't have a problem with it. but i see this as an abuse of position and using said position for personal gain and above all arrogance.

Jack L
01-22-2011, 7:34 AM
Don't forget retired LE too!

Seems pretty clear that this creates a special class of citizen and should be easy to bring down, but I'm not a constitutional scholar or a legal professional.

I would like to see this issue in court at the highest level.

BTW, today I received my email from the NRA saying just that very thing. The high cap magazine ban that was just introduced allows LE to have them. It appeared the NRA is going to argue that's BS. If they get them, we get them.

RGERBER
01-22-2011, 12:04 PM
After reading these posts I was thinking if someone got injured or killed defending himself and ran out of ammo, that person or there family could sue the pants off the state for limiting their ability to defend themselves.