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View Full Version : Purchasing a Handgun with a Green Card


aybyman
01-20-2011, 12:02 PM
Hello,

What documents are needed to purchase a handgun when you have a green card?

Would bank statements work for the 90 day thing? Obviously he would need CA Driver's license and current car registration?

Thanks for the help!

astroboy
01-20-2011, 12:08 PM
when you said green card, did you mean 'permanent resident card"?
all you need is to fill out the necessary forms and show any document
that was issued by the govt that has your current physical address and
a 90 day proof of billing on the same physical address. the permanent
resident card doesn't have your physical address, so a CA issued ID or
your car registration will do. for the proof of billing you can show your
monthly rental bill from if you live in an apartment or any gas or utility
bill will do as well.

and everything else will be the same, when you make the purchase make
sure that you have your permanent resident card with you for you need
the alien registration number from it.

my cousin just got a gun two weeks ago and i helped him out, he is not
yet a US citizen. and this was how the transaction was made.

G38xOC
01-20-2011, 12:43 PM
im not a citizen . when i purchased my handgun , they wanted 2 forms of id and 3 types of residents proof .

you might want to call local gun store and ask just to be sure

dmacintyre
01-20-2011, 1:03 PM
Bank statements are listed in the paperwork as acceptable evidence (for proof of 90 day residency).

a1c
01-20-2011, 1:25 PM
Been there. Posts above are not completely accurate.

Here is the catch:

Even if he comes with his statements (which he should bring) proving his residency going back years, the date that will matter is the date of issuance of his green card. That's the ONLY DATE the CA DOJ will look at, even if he has statements or bills proving he's been in CA for much longer.

I've been there and spoke with the CA DOJ about this very matter just months ago.

Also, if he left the country within the last 90 days, he's SOL until 80 days (90 days minus the 10 day wait) have passed since his date of return onto US soil.

In other words, if your buddy got his green card less than 80 days ago, he should wait.

Also, if he left the country - even for a couple of days - less than 80 days ago, he should wait until it's been 80 days.

fd15k
01-20-2011, 1:26 PM
Hello,

What documents are needed to purchase a handgun when you have a green card?

Would bank statements work for the 90 day thing? Obviously he would need CA Driver's license and current car registration?

Thanks for the help!

Car registration won't be needed if the driver's license has current address on it. So at the minimum:
CA DL, green card, 3 months worth of residency proof, HSC.

fd15k
01-20-2011, 1:29 PM
Been there. Posts above are not completely accurate.

Here is the catch:

Even if he comes with his statements (which he should bring) proving his residency going back years, the date that will matter is the date of issuance of his green card. That's the ONLY DATE the CA DOJ will look at, even if he has statements or bills proving he's been in CA for much longer.

I've been there and spoke with the CA DOJ about this very matter just months ago.

Also, if he left the country within the last 90 days, he's SOL until 80 days (90 days minus the 10 day wait) have passed since his date of return onto US soil.

In other words, if your buddy got his green card less than 80 days ago, he should wait.

Also, if he left the country - even for a couple of days - less than 80 days ago, he should wait until it's been 80 days.

I can see you're making a connection between 10 day waiting period and 90 day residency requirement. But the thing is 90 day requirement
is a federal one (even if CA has the same one, which I don't know), thus 90 days would count on the day the application is made (paperwork is filled), not on the day of pickup.

a1c
01-20-2011, 1:34 PM
I can see you're making a connection between 10 day waiting period and 90 day residency requirement. But the thing is 90 day requirement
is a federal one (even if CA has the same one, which I don't know), thus 90 days would count on the day the application is made (paperwork is filled), not on the day of pickup.

You misunderstood my post.

The CA DOJ only looks at the date of issuance of the green card. Even if you were in California before that and can prove it with the bank or utilities statements you're going to bring, they don't care. They go by the date of issuance of the green card. It's retarded, but they're not known for their deep understanding of immigration matters.

I'm saying 80+10 days, because what matters to the CA DOJ is the date you PICK UP your firearm. There has to be 90 days between the moment you are in the US and you pick up your firearm. Therefore, if you don't want to wait for 90 days, you can always wait for 80 days, DROS then, and then pick up your firearm after those 10 days. Or later.

I discussed this very matter with the CA DOJ back in September. They acknowledged it didn't make much sense, but insisted that they had to pick a date, and they went by the one on the green card, even though it wasn't a date of entry.

fd15k
01-20-2011, 1:36 PM
You misunderstood my post.

The CA DOJ only looks at the date of issuance of the green card. Even if you were in California before that and can prove it with the bank or utilities statements you're going to bring, they don't care. They go by the date of issuance of the green card. It's retarded, but they're not known for their deep understanding of immigration matters.

I'm saying 80+10 days, because what matters to the CA DOJ is the date you PICK UP your firearm. There has to be 90 days between the moment you are in the US and you pick up your firearm. Therefore, if you don't want to wait for 90 days, you can always wait for 80 days, DROS then, and then pick up your firearm after those 10 days. Or later.

I discussed this very matter with the CA DOJ back in September. They acknowledged it didn't make much sense, but insisted that they had to pick a date, and they went by the one on the green card, even though it wasn't a date of entry.

Got it, thanks.

bbbig
03-24-2011, 9:19 PM
I got a call today from my dealer saying DOJ denied DROS my 1st handgun purchase; I called DOJ and apparently ICE/DHS database showed that my Date of Entry as 2/14, which is the date my greencard was issued, vs. Jul 09 being the correct date of entry. To make the matter worse, my dealer is now saying I'll have to pay $65 (+$25 DROS) since I'll need to re-register the gun; either that I pay 20% restocking fee. I'm heading down to the local USCIS office to straighten this out, and going to see if DOJ can reverse the decision on the 1st DROS afterwards. Why does this have to be so hard?? Stay tuned...

fairfaxjim
03-24-2011, 9:35 PM
I got a call today from my dealer saying DOJ denied DROS my 1st handgun purchase; I called DOJ and apparently ICE/DHS database showed that my Date of Entry as 2/14, which is the date my greencard was issued, vs. Jul 09 being the correct date of entry. To make the matter worse, my dealer is now saying I'll have to pay $65 (+$25 DROS) since I'll need to re-register the gun; either that I pay 20% restocking fee. I'm heading down to the local USCIS office to straighten this out, and going to see if DOJ can reverse the decision on the 1st DROS afterwards. Why does this have to be so hard?? Stay tuned...

Whoa! What is th $65 for? The dealer is ripping you off. If you have to re-DROS, then the $25 is legit, but there is no $65 fee, you just lose the first DROS fee. How can he have to "re-register the gun"? If the DROS was denied, it was never registered in the first place. He is trying to pocket an extra $65. If you ultimately are unable to DROS the gun, then you would be expected to pay a restocking fee. I personally think 20% is high, but they do have "some" expense in doing the transaction and having to do the paperwork to log the gun back into their inventory. Still, it isn't like they had shipped you something and then had to receive it back in, inspect it to see if it is still new, etc. like a lot of vendors have to do with returns.

There is something to be learned for new firearm buyers in this though. If you haven't ever purchased a firearm before, particularly a handgun, do your homework and understand as much of the process as possible. If you have any "special" issues such as residency, background glitches, whatever, get those checked out and dealt with before you start putting your money at the mercy of the DOJ and the dealer. Firearm purchasing is made complicated on purpose by those that don't want us to own them, don't make it even more complicated by being uninformed or downright inept.

edsel6502
03-25-2011, 2:08 AM
I've been there and spoke with the CA DOJ about this very matter just months ago.

Also, if he left the country within the last 90 days, he's SOL until 80 days (90 days minus the 10 day wait) have passed since his date of return onto US soil.


Interesting. Before I got my permanent residency i used to run into this all the time.

I'm trying to remember if I've tried to purchase a gun within 90 days of coming back.

I could have sworn that I did not need the 90 days residency once I've had my residency for 90 days even after trips out of the country.

Well, litmus test time. Going on a business trip soon. Will buy a gun when I come back and see how it goes.

bbbig
03-27-2011, 8:49 AM
Update: I headed down to a local USCIS office to clear up my Date of Entry vs. Green Card issue date. As it turns out, the green card date became my new Date of Entry into USA "as a permanent resident" when my status changed from non-resident alien. So, it looks like I will have to wait few more month before I can apply DROS again, to meet the 90 day residence requirement. I spoke with my dealer, and we agreed to re-DROS in a few month, with no additional charges to me other than the $25 fee, so all is good now.

996pilot
03-29-2011, 10:00 PM
So I cant have a mag bigger than 10 rounds but they will let a non citizen buy a gun?

tenpercentfirearms
03-29-2011, 10:24 PM
Whoa! What is th $65 for? The dealer is ripping you off. If you have to re-DROS, then the $25 is legit, but there is no $65 fee, you just lose the first DROS fee. How can he have to "re-register the gun"? If the DROS was denied, it was never registered in the first place. He is trying to pocket an extra $65. If you ultimately are unable to DROS the gun, then you would be expected to pay a restocking fee. I personally think 20% is high, but they do have "some" expense in doing the transaction and having to do the paperwork to log the gun back into their inventory. Still, it isn't like they had shipped you something and then had to receive it back in, inspect it to see if it is still new, etc. like a lot of vendors have to do with returns.

There is something to be learned for new firearm buyers in this though. If you haven't ever purchased a firearm before, particularly a handgun, do your homework and understand as much of the process as possible. If you have any "special" issues such as residency, background glitches, whatever, get those checked out and dealt with before you start putting your money at the mercy of the DOJ and the dealer. Firearm purchasing is made complicated on purpose by those that don't want us to own them, don't make it even more complicated by being uninformed or downright inept.

How is the dealer ripping him off? It is important that you research dealer fees before starting a DROS. The dealer has to process the paperwork, audit it, and retain it whether he gets denied or it goes through all the same (slightly shorter periods of retention for denials). So if this guy gets denied and never comes back again, I think it is perfectly acceptable for the dealer to get a cut. The dealer should have clear policies on how this works for their business. If you don't like those policies, then people shouldn't start DROS.

The dealer did exactly what I would have done in the end. Just charge for a re-DROS later on. I look at the big picture. You take care of people and they will come back. However, I wouldn't blame the dealer for requiring a paperwork fee for submitting DROS and through a fault only of the purchaser, it getting denied. They performed a service and should get paid. If the customer still comes back, then taking a slight loss will be better in the end, but that is up to the dealer to make that decision.

I love resident aliens and non-resident alien customers. They like to spend a lot of money on guns and their paperwork isn't all that hard.

So I cant have a mag bigger than 10 rounds but they will let a non citizen buy a gun?

What does a non citizen being able to exercise their second amendment rights have to do with the government infringing on yours? Nothing is the answer.

bbbig
04-08-2011, 6:35 AM
Update: I headed down to a local USCIS office to clear up my Date of Entry vs. Green Card issue date. As it turns out, the green card date became my new Date of Entry into USA "as a permanent resident" when my status changed from non-resident alien. So, it looks like I will have to wait few more month before I can apply DROS again, to meet the 90 day residence requirement. I spoke with my dealer, and we agreed to re-DROS in a few month, with no additional charges to me other than the $25 fee, so all is good now.

Update: As a guy who doesn't deal with NO very well, I submitted my appeal to NICS via e-mail last week with my I-94 entry date of 2009. Then I got a call two days ago from CA DOJ telling me that my DROS denial has been now reversed, however I have to wait 10 days to pick up the gun! Who'd have thought the Government actually works?!? Go Feds!! :)
(a heck of timing considering the federal government may shutdown later today!)

jl123
04-08-2011, 6:49 AM
So I cant have a mag bigger than 10 rounds but they will let a non citizen buy a gun?

Seriously! I can't believe they have the freedom of speech either! :mad::confused::rolleyes:

Mesa Tactical
04-08-2011, 7:43 AM
So I cant have a mag bigger than 10 rounds but they will let a non citizen buy a gun?

If you can find the word "citizen" anywhere in the Bill of Rights, you win a gold star.

bluebaron
04-09-2011, 1:37 AM
I love resident aliens and non-resident alien customers. They like to spend a lot of money on guns and their paperwork isn't all that hard.

True....I came back a few times.

You have to be a resident alien though unless you have a hunting license or something.

tenpercentfirearms
04-09-2011, 7:45 AM
I love resident aliens and non-resident alien customers. They like to spend a lot of money on guns and their paperwork isn't all that hard.

True....I came back a few times.

You have to be a resident alien though unless you have a hunting license or something.

Non resident aliens just need a hunting license. I'll sell guns to anyone who can lawfully purchase them. Why send money away?

Mssr. Eleganté
04-09-2011, 12:15 PM
Update: As a guy who doesn't deal with NO very well, I submitted my appeal to NICS via e-mail last week with my I-94 entry date of 2009. Then I got a call two days ago from CA DOJ telling me that my DROS denial has been now reversed, however I have to wait 10 days to pick up the gun! Who'd have thought the Government actually works?!? Go Feds!! :)
(a heck of timing considering the federal government may shutdown later today!)

I can't decide which is more shocking, the fact that somebody tried to fight them on this or the fact that you ended up winning. :D Nice work!

nbkvig2
04-09-2011, 12:32 PM
I am a permanent resident as well and from my experience, it is different when purchasing NEW handgun vs. Private Party Transfer. With new handguns, I used my HSC,CADL, Permanent Residency Card and 3 (most current) months worth of bank statement. When I did the PPT, they did not accept 3 months worth of bank statement. I had to either have Utility Bill or Car registration. Long story short, I had neither so I had to get a rental agreement and have that signed. So I used HSC, CADL, Permanent Residency Card and a rental agreement for PPT. Good thing is, that rental agreement is good until pretty much until I move out of the residence. Hope that helps.

inosaris
07-08-2013, 11:37 AM
Been there. Posts above are not completely accurate.

Here is the catch:

Even if he comes with his statements (which he should bring) proving his residency going back years, the date that will matter is the date of issuance of his green card. That's the ONLY DATE the CA DOJ will look at, even if he has statements or bills proving he's been in CA for much longer.

I've been there and spoke with the CA DOJ about this very matter just months ago.

Also, if he left the country within the last 90 days, he's SOL until 80 days (90 days minus the 10 day wait) have passed since his date of return onto US soil.

In other words, if your buddy got his green card less than 80 days ago, he should wait.

Also, if he left the country - even for a couple of days - less than 80 days ago, he should wait until it's been 80 days.

Sorry for the thread necro, but I wasn't able to find more information when doing a search...

If I am reading this correctly, given that I took a trip abroad last month and am a permanent resident I will fail DROS anytime before..September? Can anyone provide further insight/clarification? Thanks

EDIT: Per the link below, looks like the 90 day residency requirement has been lifted for citizens/permanent residents
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/12/atf-open-letter-to-all-federal-firearms-licensees-regarding-state-of-residence/#axzz2YTrtqQ6z

rqc
07-08-2013, 2:31 PM
90 days will not affect you because you are a permanent resident. Those 90 days are only for non immigrant visa holder. If you are holding a working visa or some other kind then 90 guidelines will take effect.

Jonsey
07-08-2013, 4:21 PM
I am a permanent resident. I have bought 8 new guns and about 6 private party transfers. They all had to be with the green card, drivers license, hand gun card when applicable and 3 months of Iapproved list of bills.

I just bought a pistol 10th days ago and that has changed to just one month most recent bill from 3 bills. That was the same for a ppt I just did as well.

GVDP
07-08-2013, 7:39 PM
I have a "Green card" as well and have just purchased a 10/22. All I needed was my green card, driver license and vehicle registration. I was told by employee that the rules had changed and I only needed reg.

2nd Mass
07-08-2013, 8:17 PM
And who says immigrants are anti 2A. Good info on here for others in need.

a1c
07-08-2013, 9:37 PM
Since mid-2012 4473 forms have been revised and permanent residents (green card holders) now are processed the same way as U.S. citizens. No need to prove 90 day residency. The latest copy of a utility bill will suffice.

You should however provide your green card for the transfer (and your alien # on the 4473 form) in addition to another form of ID (DL, for instance).

pastureofmuppets
07-09-2013, 12:13 AM
As this thread will help more people over time... don't sweat being in between green cards when immigration are dragging their heels and stamping your passport to show you are still here legally. I recommend taking that stamped passport as well as green card.

And who says immigrants are anti 2A. Good info on here for others in need.

As a Brit... anything I can do to help not happen to you that happened to us.

sl0re10
07-09-2013, 7:31 AM
im not a citizen . when i purchased my handgun , they wanted 2 forms of id and 3 types of residents proof .

you might want to call local gun store and ask just to be sure

They mean like utility bills and car registration. Same as a citizen.

Most laws are written like this. "Citizens, and resident aliens, blaw blaw blaw."

Just use the same stuff a citizen would.

suisun82
07-29-2013, 8:15 PM
Even though the law has changed for permanent residents, my dealer still insists on 3 months worth of bills. Is there something I can show him to prove that the law has changed?

Best sale
07-30-2013, 3:16 AM
Yo... Stop giving your $$$$ to someone that doesn't know his/ her job as FFL, I pray he wouldn't fill out your Dros application wrongly and get your DROS denied.... Go look for an intelligent,friendly with a great customer service FFL.
If you look up on your post their is an FFL on 20th post.
Give your business to people that deserves it........

Jed Meyers
07-30-2013, 10:02 AM
Unfortunately in CA if you are a resident or non-resident alien (i.e. not a US citizen) and do not have a CCW you can transport a handgun only between a limited number of places, such as residence, place of business, range, and a gunsmith shop.