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View Full Version : Tell me why I SHOULDN'T be building a 1919A4!


radioactivelego
08-20-2006, 1:58 AM
We all have probably heard of these parts kits. Old Browning 1919's rechambered to 7.62x51 NATO and sold to IDF then brought back over here as parts kits. There are adapters out there for bringing it back to 30-06 and even 8mm Mauser. The advantages of building one are the right side plate (receiver) is very easy to drill. I've heard stories of people using a steady hand or a leveler duct taped to their handheld power drill and a coffee table. It's accurate to boot and it's beltfed so I can go on a continuous binge. :)

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?p=WX2&i=107869

This is obviously a horrible example as it's somewhat overpriced and it's SG being the retarded frenchies they can be by restricting shipment to California.

The cons being that it's pretty much setup and stay there, and the A4 will require me to jerry rig some sandbags or spend $500+ on a tripod that takes a while to setup. ALTHOUGH I just stumbled upon this and would definitely be worth it in my honest opinion:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?p=WX2&i=107869

I also need belts/links and copious amounts of whatever I shoot (although it's a good reason to move up to a Dillon :)).

I still need some info, however. What kind of machinery would be best for drilling out the holes? What kind of rivet tool do I need? What are the ramnifications of this being legal in California; I've heard silly things like I can only load up 10 linked rounds at a time.

Any help, courage, or blasphemy is appreciated. :D

Cato
08-20-2006, 2:26 AM
I saw one at Gunrunners Duarte, assembled, for $1,600.00. Pretty cool, but the OLL thing and my Sig/HK addiction has eaten up my defense budget. Besides, I dont think I can fit that monster in my safe. My wife my bust me over the head with a rolling pin if I brought that gun home.

socalguns
08-20-2006, 3:59 AM
http://1919a4.com/

kantstudien
08-20-2006, 4:08 AM
I've heard silly things like I can only load up 10 linked rounds at a time.

This is true, you can only link ten rounds unless you have "pre-ban" links that you made prior to Jan 1, 2000. :rolleyes:

eckerph
08-20-2006, 8:09 AM
I don't think these are legal, they have the capacity to accept more than ten rounds therefore aren't they assault rifles?

The Soup Nazi
08-20-2006, 8:32 AM
Nah, the links themselves aren't illegal, maybe the cloth belts which were bought after the year 2000. Maybe you can get someone to cut up a 250 round cloth belt into 10 round strips? The law is basically unenforceable though, more so than the magazine ban.

MaxQ
08-20-2006, 8:39 AM
Yes, they are legal in CA. No evil features like a flash suppressor, forward pistol grip, or folding/telestock. The pistol grip is behind the action, therefore, it can't be construed as "a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon."

socalguns is right, 1919a4.com is the best place for 1919 info.

For a built 1919, try Allied Armament or Ohio Rapid Fire.

http://alliedarmament.homestead.com

http://www.ohiorapidfire.com

Belts and links are ammunition feeding devices, so you are limited to ten round belts or ten linked rounds, unless you owned the belts or linked rounds before 2000. There are no original ten round cloth belts, so you'd have to have one cut up out of state and starter tabs added. Go with links. Much easier to deal with ten linked rounds.

BigMac
08-20-2006, 9:29 AM
I'll tell you why not to build a 1919..

You will find yourself coveting very expensive tripods. You will want one of each type and they get more and more expensive. You will need space for your spare parts, caliber conversions and cases of ammo.

You will attract LOTS of attention when you begin setting up your tripod on the CA fireing line ;) You will become very popular with young boys of all ages wanting to try your toy (because their wife wont let them have one).

You will have to inhale burnt oil ang grease because you will not be able to resist rapid fireing to the point of cookoff. You will begin considering barrels as consumables (no kidding).

You will spend 50 bucks a minute or more shooting it :D

blkA4alb
08-20-2006, 9:50 AM
I don't think these are legal, they have the capacity to accept more than ten rounds therefore aren't they assault rifles?
Where did you get that? Under that logic practically every semiautomatic centerfire rifle would be an AW. Minis, SU-16s, M1As, ALL AR-15s, ALL AK-47s etc etc.

Here are the laws on AWs, http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/12275.htm

blkA4alb
08-20-2006, 9:55 AM
Like MaxQ said, these are legal because the pistol grips are behind the recevier and not below it. They actually make paddle style grips for the AR :D .

About the links, yes you can only link up 10 rounds. If you were to link 11 that would be constructing a high capacity magazine. If you had the links before the ban then it is suggested to not fire the last 10 rounds of the link. If I had the money I would be building one. (It looks like the websites you linked wont ship "Asault weapon parts" to california though :rolleyes: .)

fal_762x51
08-20-2006, 10:19 AM
I'll tell you why! It is because it's so damn fun building one, but shooting it is even more rewarding. They seem to multiply for some reason, you start with the 1919a4, then a 1919a6, then a 1917, and then you start to think of mocking one up to look like a Vickers. It's a disease!!!

P.S. A nice repo tripod will go around $100-$300 depending on if you buy one or make your own.

eckerph
08-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Where did you get that? Under that logic practically every semiautomatic centerfire rifle would be an AW. Minis, SU-16s, M1As, ALL AR-15s, ALL AK-47s etc etc.


I assumed since it had a pistol grip. If i had known these were legal i prolly would've bought one awhile ago. Would the model 1919 with the stock and bipod be legal also?

blkA4alb
08-20-2006, 10:41 AM
I assumed since it had a pistol grip. If i had known these were legal i prolly would've bought one awhile ago. Would the model 1919 with the stock and bipod be legal also?
These don't have pistol grips, which is why they are legal. The definition of a pistol grip says that it "protrudes conspicuously beneath the action". Since these are not beneath the action, they arn't pistol grips.

I don't see why they would be illegal with the stock, but do you have a picture?

DRH
08-20-2006, 10:57 AM
The A6 flash hider should not be installed on the weapon. You can own it and use it out of state, but in California it would make the weapon an assault weapon. The stock and bipod are ok. The 1919 has been classifed as a firearm not a rifle by the ATFE so 922 compliance it not necessary. Also back to the original post, while the side plates can be complete by a layman, a mill and an expensive keyway cutter is required to complete the internal semi auto modifications. Farm this step out to the pros, it will be cheaper than the learning experience.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/372931.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/372680.jpg

eckerph
08-20-2006, 11:10 AM
Lots of good info, found this cool site http://1919a4.com/

radioactivelego
08-20-2006, 12:28 PM
Thanks for all the info guys. Considering this would be pretty much a no-range gun (I am not dealing with setting this thing up only to get asked a million questions; I already get that with cool looking guns like the Super Blackhawk), I would probably not have much of a problem with getting cloth belts. :)

Also back to the original post, while the side plates can be complete by a layman, a mill and an expensive keyway cutter is required to complete the internal semi auto modifications. Farm this step out to the pros, it will be cheaper than the learning experience.What should be the asking price for this service? This and parkerizing are the only things I'm expecting to let someone do. Once it's parkerized I'm going to probably duracoat it HK Black, maybe even Gold. :D

HeHateMe
08-20-2006, 12:33 PM
Perfectly legal. River City Gun Exchange in Sacramento had a fully assembled 1919. They also had a BAR, but a little out of my price range.

Hunter
08-20-2006, 2:43 PM
This is true, you can only link ten rounds unless you have "pre-ban" links that you made prior to Jan 1, 2000. :rolleyes:


Reading the above posted DOJ letter , it seems to state that even though ones has a pile of links prior to 2000, the simple act of linking them together after 2000 is a violation. Anyone else see it this way?

Otherwords, if you have linked ammo (pre 2000) you can shoot it up. But you cannot reassemble the links into belts of more than 10rnds. At least not while in CA.

DRH
08-20-2006, 3:37 PM
What should be the asking price for this service? This and parkerizing are the only things I'm expecting to let someone do. Once it's parkerized I'm going to probably duracoat it HK Black, maybe even Gold. :D

Internals should cost between $100-130 depending on what kind of package deal you are getting. The parkerizing can be done cheap by yourself as most places want $150-200 to park a big guns like the 1919. For that price you can have a nice setup. Alleganey Arsenal has nice home park chemical kits. The hard part is the stainless pan.

Reading the above posted DOJ letter , it seems to state that even though ones has a pile of links prior to 2000, the simple act of linking them together after 2000 is a violation. Anyone else see it this way?

Otherwords, if you have linked ammo (pre 2000) you can shoot it up. But you cannot reassemble the links into belts of more than 10rnds. At least not while in CA.
If you tape off the last 11 rounds of a pre-ban linked belt, you can't shoot it too low to make it not a High capacity feeding device. It is therefore always reloadable back to any capacity. If you did not have belted ammo and/or belts before the year 2000, the 1919 won't be very much fun with the 10 round belts.

Pokey
08-21-2006, 4:24 PM
<snip> Also back to the original post, while the side plates can be complete by a layman, a mill and an expensive keyway cutter is required to complete the internal semi auto modifications. Farm this step out to the pros, it will be cheaper than the learning experience.<snip>
Anyone you would recommend farming it to?

shonc99
08-21-2006, 4:36 PM
RGUNS out of Illinois has a 1919 parts kit on their main page. I do not know if they ship to CA though.

http://www.rguns.net/

DRH
08-21-2006, 7:35 PM
Anyone you would recommend farming it to?
While I have not used him personally this guy has received too many great reviews to not trust with your parts. This add is a little old so email him through the 1919 board to see what current package deal is available. He machines to the popular Karma Metal products KMP semi sear slot size and single island raised side plate design.
http://www.1919a4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37

Pokey
08-22-2006, 2:19 PM
Thanks for the info. Sent him an e-mail and I'll post what I find out.

Pokey
08-23-2006, 2:06 PM
I got an e-mail back. $90 including return shipping. I don't know that I could buy the tooling for that. I'll post the results, hopefully sending the parts this week.
Thanks again.

Blue
08-23-2006, 8:07 PM
I had Allied Armament do my internal machine work. Great people. I built mine from an 80% plate. I was alittle dissapointed in the engravings I paid extra for but I see no reason that you shouldn't build one :D

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/Blue84s10/19192.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/Blue84s10/karlwork335.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f73/Blue84s10/karlwork337.jpg